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Spain & Gibraltar
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Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
OK, if we're going that route: - Glad you brought that up. Brought it from the Russians, if they had title. Aren't they also another European Colonial power, with all that blue blood interbreeding? Now Afghanistan, just the USA cleaning up another European colonial mess. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
I am sure Mexico would take umbrage with that. Arizona except for the Gadsden Purchase. Mexico sold that fair and square. The rest was spoils of war. Then we stole the land grants from the original Spanish owners. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
OK, if we're going that route: - So how about returning it to its natives? Edit: check your history books, Afghanistan was never colonised. Britain & Russia tried twice & lost, still not learning from past mistakes, now its your turn. The 80's should have taught you that lesson, but you chose to ignore it. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
OK, if we're going that route: - How about the original 13. Sure why not. We can always go against the seller and extract damages from them for their fraud. Ready to pay? SCOTUS is likely going to have to deal with several first nations land cases in the coming decades as these work their way through the courts. It is going to be interesting to see how they get resolved. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Edit: check your history books, Afghanistan was never colonised. Britain & Russia tried twice & lost, Leaving a colonial mess that needs cleaning up ... still not learning from past mistakes, now its your turn. The 80's should have taught you that lesson, but you chose to ignore it. What makes you think we ever had any intention of staying? Just because that is the thought process of a Brut, it has to be the thought process of others? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
That'll be one way to wipe out your deficit...reduce the States from 50 to 13....interesting concept. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
The way you continue with regards European colonisation, one would think that this upsets you..... "The Mayflower has a famous place in American history as a symbol of early European colonisation of the future United States." One can only wonder where America would be if Europeans hadn't colonised it! |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
One can only wonder where America would be if Europeans hadn't colonised it! Bountiful harvests for all and absorbing enough CO2 in its forests to counter global warming. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
One can only wonder where America would be if Europeans hadn't colonised it! hahaha, global warming wouldn't be on the agenda...... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
No, 50 to zero. We would have to collect from the colonizers of the first 13, seem to remember that being the red coats, I'm sure that would wipe the debt out. Of course if they couldn't pay up we would have to put them in chains until they did. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
As the OP here this has rather gone a bit of topic. HOWEVER I am happy to go along with it, provided at some point we could get back to the Gibraltar issue. Why do Americans see our claims to Gibraltar as Colonialism. That was in the Victorian era, not 300 years ago! Sorry Chris, I took that from your OP....1713 to now is 299, so what's a year. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
You were too quick, I changed my post. Don't be too hasty in the reply! :-) LOL. I think that it's not just Spain/Gibraltar that's the issue. I think its down to all. Take Spain as an example: - suffering severely due to the financial crisis & with Gibraltar being a 1st class tourist destination, they want it back to take the pressure off them. The same applies to Argentina & the Falklands. Then we get those who castigate European colonisation: - they may be correct in their views, but & its a big but, the ones with those views are of European ancestry: - So it seems to me that they want their bread buttered on both sides. The answer? Very simple really: - move on & help making they're part of the world a better place. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
As the OP here this has rather gone a bit of topic. HOWEVER I am happy to go along with it, provided at some point we could get back to the Gibraltar issue. Why do Americans see our claims to Gibraltar as Colonialism? Wasn't in obtained to militarily secure your trade routes for your colonization efforts in the northern Mediterranean area? After all Spain and especially Portugal got much better places to get human resource units to sell to your colonies, depriving you of this income source. Of course you did go farther south in Africa as well. Perhaps a convenient fuel stop as it were for those exploits and further into the Indian Ocean. I doubt it had anything to do with a worry that Spain might close your access to the Mediterranean, after all you didn't try and blockade the Spanish or anything like that so there wouldn't have been any reason to think of a tit for tat situation. In any case, spoils of war. What are we doing with Nazi spoils of war like paintings stolen from the Jews? I'm sure that some persons chose not to stay in Gibraltar while the fight was on, or were forced out. Were they properly compensated? Or was their property, land, confiscated just as the Nazi's did with the property of Jews? Do you think their descendants have claim? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
In that case, how about you giving Germany, not only the credit, but compensate for the transportation of German Scientists in 1945 - the very same scientists who got you into space! Wernher Von Braun |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Seems like we are forever cleaning up the messes created by colonialism. 2014 may not be an answer you like, that does not mean it's not an answer. I suppose you're referring to US support of Afghan Mujahideen, the folks that fought off a Soviet invasion. The Taliban may have risen from that group 14 or so years later, though there was certainly animosity between a leader of the Mujahadeen and the Taliban. Are you sure the facts align with your narrative? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
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Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Seems like we are forever cleaning up the messes created by colonialism. Quite sure, as the question still hasn't been answered. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Marshall Plan "For example, Alberto Alesina and Beatrice Weder, summing up economic literature on foreign aid and corruption, find that aid is primarily used wastefully and self-servingly by government officials, and ends up increasing governmental corruption. This policy of promoting corrupt government is then attributed back to the initial impetus of the Marshall Plan." Oh dear. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Quite sure, as the question still hasn't been answered. Can't help that you don't like the answer. Hope the sand doesn't get into your eye. |
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