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When will US introduce direct election system for President?
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Author | Message |
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Mark Lybeck Send message Joined: 9 Aug 99 Posts: 245 Credit: 216,677,290 RAC: 173 |
Any idea when US citicens would choose their president directly among candidates, ommitting any intermediary-electors who may or may not change their mind. Also another peculiarity is that in the current indirect election system one candidate gets all the votes of the eletors in the state, although the actual voted outcome is different. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Any idea when US citicens would choose their president directly among candidates, ommitting any intermediary-electors who may or may not change their mind. I expect it won't change at all. Gives the pundits something to complain about. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19062 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
After we make it through our 2nd ever constitutional convention, the electoral college system will probably go away. The always Republican House is going to allow that, pull the other one. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
After we make it through our 2nd ever constitutional convention, the electoral college system will probably go away. WK, What does the house have to do with a constitutional convention? |
Reed Young Send message Joined: 23 Feb 06 Posts: 122 Credit: 81,383 RAC: 0 |
Since it's only the losers of each election who want to do so, and the losers by definition tend to be less numerous than the winners, it is unlikely to ever happen. Anyway, the winner of this election also won a popular majority, so this particular election doesn't make the electoral college particularly problematic. http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/as-nation-and-parties-change-republicans-are-at-an-electoral-college-disadvantage/ |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19062 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
After we make it through our 2nd ever constitutional convention, the electoral college system will probably go away. Sorry you are correct, my bad thinking, it is Congress decision, but requires a two thirds majority, so still not going to happen soon. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
After we make it through our 2nd ever constitutional convention, the electoral college system will probably go away. WK, What is the other way to have one? What is the present status of that other way? |
KWSN - MajorKong Send message Joined: 5 Jan 00 Posts: 2892 Credit: 1,499,890 RAC: 0 |
After we make it through our 2nd ever constitutional convention, the electoral college system will probably go away. If I may answer: From the US Constitution: Article. V. Last I saw, we were just 2 states away from the mark (32 out of 50) on calling a convention. But in any case, I don't see this happening. Current constitution gives the total power to elect the president to the several state legislatures. Now, by custom, the states hold elections to determine which way to allocate its electors, but they are not required to. Any change to this will require a constitutional amendment, and these amendments require 3/4 of the states' legislatures (currently 37.5 -> 38 states) to agree before they are valid. I highly doubt that you will find 38 state legislatures to agree to give up their power in this regard, and there is NO OTHER way to change it. The way the constitution was initially set up, the people voted for 'their' member of the House, the Senate was selected by the state executives (the state Governors), and the President was selected by the state legislatures. Checks and balances. The system worked. Some time later the Senate was changed to direct election by amendment. The legislatures agreed... of course it wasn't THEIR power they were giving up. You expect the state legislatures to give up one of the FEW powers left to them that is exclusively theirs? Dream on! Oh, and I am sorry I have not been able to post much of late. Been very busy with my kids. I spend the bulk of my days taking care of them, and when night rolls around, all I want is sleep. https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE #Texit Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016. Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
The way the constitution was initially set up, the people voted for 'their' member of the House, the Senate was selected by the state executives (the state Governors), and the President was selected by the state legislatures. Checks and balances. The system worked. Some time later the Senate was changed to direct election by amendment. The legislatures agreed... of course it wasn't THEIR power they were giving up. An odd error for you to make MK: [ETA]Article 1[/ETA] I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Aftermath: A Distorted View of America and Why Seceding Can’t Succeed "Of course any of the other aforementioned states could, in an act of treason, secede by force to become the world’s newest impoverished nations. Not only are the majority of blue states the most populous, they are also the states with the most wealth, and with that comes the most taxes. And those blue states’ taxes pave their roads, turn on their street lights, run their schools, and make their water drinkable. While some Republicans in the Great Plains, the Rockies, and much of the Deep South complain about the bright red map, they’ve failed to realize it’s the deceptively small blue cogs that actually keep the machine that is America rolling along — and it’s the blue states’ money that fills the tank." Reality Internet Personality |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Turns out there have been very few elections where the candidate with fewer votes has won. Going back in history Bush - Gore -- Gore had more votes (went to the Supreme Legislature and the Republicans won 5/4 (reflecting the composition of the Supreme Legislature) Hayes - Tilden -- disputed election -- went to the House of Representatives -- resulted in a deal to end Reconstruction. Jackson - JQ Adams -- there were four candidates -- Jackson had a fairly large popular vote plurality -- but Adams cut a deal with Clay (the 3rd place finisher) and got the election. Jackson won 4 years later in a landslide. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Bush - Gore -- Gore had more votes (went to the Supreme Legislature and the Republicans won 5/4 (reflecting the composition of the Supreme Legislature) And then the press went and recounted all the Florida ballots and shock of shock, Bush actually won Florida. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Aftermath: A Distorted View of America and Why Seceding Can’t Succeed The 53% is PURPLE, baby! |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Gary -- I understand that -- but it was the Supreme Court that made the decision without all the ballots counted. I'm really glad this election was much more clear cut on a state by state basis. By the way, in Arizona there are still three House seats undecided and as of today there were still something like 300,000 ballots uncounted. It isn't just a mess in Florida. Bush - Gore -- Gore had more votes (went to the Supreme Legislature and the Republicans won 5/4 (reflecting the composition of the Supreme Legislature) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Gary -- I understand that -- but it was the Supreme Court that made the decision without all the ballots counted. Actually they were all counted and all recounted once. They stopped the second recount of partisan selected counties which due to partisan bickering wasn't going to be finished on time. As it turns out they were right. I'm really glad this election was much more clear cut on a state by state basis. By the way, in Arizona there are still three House seats undecided and as of today there were still something like 300,000 ballots uncounted. It isn't just a mess in Florida. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Bush - Gore -- Gore had more votes (went to the Supreme Legislature and the Republicans won 5/4 (reflecting the composition of the Supreme Legislature) That's one interpretation of what the press found: EXAMINING THE VOTE: THE OVERVIEW; Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote source. [ETA]Gore lost on the night, and the strategy his team used would not have changed that result, though it's likely a different strategy, calling on a recount in which all counties employed a single standard to consider whether a ballot should be counted, would have found Gore won in Florida. Seems to me that Gore was not robbed of the election by SCOTUS[/ETA] I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19062 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
There was not just the undervote, other problems were reported. There was the overvote, illegal voter purging, there was also some electronic glitches that deleted votes (not all reported apparently) and there were some illegal overseas votes (680) that didn't get picked up and removed from the totals. So I guess we will never know who actually won in Florida. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Bush - Gore -- Gore had more votes (went to the Supreme Legislature and the Republicans won 5/4 (reflecting the composition of the Supreme Legislature) Same source: For example, if Florida's 67 counties had carried out the hand recount of disputed ballots ordered by the Florida court on Dec. 8, applying the standards that election officials said they would have used, Mr. Bush would have emerged the victor by 493 votes. If you change the standards, you can get the result you quote Bobby. The consortium asked all 67 counties what standard they would have used and what ballots they would have manually recounted. Combining that information with the detailed ballot examination found that Mr. Bush would have won the election, by 493 votes if two of the three coders agreed on what was on the ballot; by 389 counting only those ballots on which all three agreed. So with the rules as they were, Bush won. Different rules, Gore could have won, but there weren't different rules. Makes us all realize how important the rules are and why you should care about such things. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
So with the rules as they were, Bush won. Different rules, Gore could have won, but there weren't different rules. Makes us all realize how important the rules are and why you should care about such things. Indeed. Whatever the case, Gore did lose Florida in 2000. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
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