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Profile Gary CharpentierProject donor
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Message 1303132 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 14:43:48 UTC - in response to Message 1303059.

Very interesting map of the results in the USA though. Both the western and Eastern states went Democrat, whilst nearly all of central USA went Republican. Why is it that the Cities vote one way and the rural communities all vote the other?

The coasts are full of high density cities and housing projects and the central USA is full of low density people. The difference being people who live in the cities want to be close enough to their neighbor so as to be in their stuff and the people not in the cities want to be far enough away no one is in their stuff. Simple really.

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Message 1303140 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 15:05:28 UTC

central USA is full of low density people

Oh dearie me, is that why they vote Republican!!!

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Message 1303145 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 15:20:55 UTC - in response to Message 1303129.
Last modified: 7 Nov 2012, 15:25:57 UTC

It's not intended to. The college, being based on the number of congresspeople (both Representatives and Senators) a state sends to DC is deliberately skewed to favor low population states. As the President is executive leader of a federation of states, it's the states that decide who will hold the office.

Well that is one of your problems as I see it. Far too many State Governors think they are God Almighty and run their State like a private fiefdom or dictatorship. Whatever happened to democracy?


The USA isn't a democracy, it is a republic. Of course the liberal press wants everyone to think it is a democracy so they tout that.


Oh jeez, that old chestnut? As far as I can tell it dates to one of the Federalist Papers authored by James Madison, where he describes a democracy in terms that would today be used to describe a direct democracy, and a republic in what today would be a representative democracy. I prefer Machiavelli's definition of republic, it's widely accepted around the world, and refers to a form of government where the head of state is not a monarch. Under Madison's definition, the UK is a republic, which is clearly nonsense. [ETA]Further reading[/ETA]

Chris, my apologies, when I said the states decide who will hold the office, I didn't mean to suggest that it was the state legislatures or executive, only that the electoral college is defined on the basis of state representation (which, to a large degree, means popular representation).
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1303148 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 15:33:10 UTC - in response to Message 1303132.

The difference being people who live in the cities want to be close enough to their neighbor so as to be in their stuff and the people not in the cities want to be far enough away no one is in their stuff. Simple really.


I beg to differ, it seems to me more likely in small towns people can and will know a lot more about their neighbors stuff, as it's easier to keep track when there are so few. IMHO it's easier to be anonymous when there are a million people around you than when there are 10.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Profile Gary CharpentierProject donor
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Message 1303191 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 18:15:17 UTC - in response to Message 1303148.

The difference being people who live in the cities want to be close enough to their neighbor so as to be in their stuff and the people not in the cities want to be far enough away no one is in their stuff. Simple really.


I beg to differ, it seems to me more likely in small towns people can and will know a lot more about their neighbors stuff, as it's easier to keep track when there are so few. IMHO it's easier to be anonymous when there are a million people around you than when there are 10.

Bobby, you continue to describe a high density area, a city. Perhaps you haven't ever been to a real rural area. One where the neighbor is a mile away over a ridge line, not through the wall or across the driveway. In high density areas like cities the screaming match carries into the neighbor, it is in the face rubbed into the nose. True in a megalopolis you are less likely to go to the same coffee shop and church but the busybodies still gossip in a megalopolis.


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Message 1303247 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 19:34:02 UTC - in response to Message 1303063.

"So it is pretty close, With Florida to come and some states, like California, haven't counted the postal votes yet. Postal votes are likely to be military personnel and therefore would expect to be Republicans.
"

In California several years ago people were given the option of becoming a "permanent absentee voter". This means a great many votes are postal.
They removed the requirements that just about mandated either military service, physical handicap, or other reasons why someone COULD NOT make it to the polls.

While most in military more than likely do vote absentee, it is far from the majority of the absentee ballots in California.


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Message 1303275 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 20:51:30 UTC - in response to Message 1303063.
Last modified: 7 Nov 2012, 20:52:43 UTC

So it is pretty close, With Florida to come and some states, like California, haven't counted the postal votes yet. Postal votes are likely to be military personnel and therefore would expect to be Republicans.


Absentee voting has changed quite a bit in California. Years ago, yes, it was the elderly and military personnel who tended to vote absentee, and yes these two groups would tend to lean right. Now absentee ballots tend to include large numbers of crazy-busy people, especially those with nasty work commutes. It has been my experience, at least in the SF Bay area, that crazy-busy people lean left.

Edit: I'm sorry! I didn't realize Janice had already responded to this issue.

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Message 1303294 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 21:57:50 UTC - in response to Message 1303275.

*snicker* no worries Angela.. I also enjoy the advantages of being able to tune everyone out 2 weeks before the election.

Still discouraged the proposition 37 (California GMO labeling) did not pass, but with the amount of money and mis-information that was put behind defeating it I should not be too surprised.


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Message 1303303 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 22:25:09 UTC - in response to Message 1303294.

my understanding of absentee ballots is that they aren't even counts unless the vote is clearly going to be close. I'd rather early vote than not be counted
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Profile Gary CharpentierProject donor
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Message 1303319 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 23:02:03 UTC - in response to Message 1303294.

*snicker* no worries Angela.. I also enjoy the advantages of being able to tune everyone out 2 weeks before the election.

Still discouraged the proposition 37 (California GMO labeling) did not pass, but with the amount of money and mis-information that was put behind defeating it I should not be too surprised.

Good idea, but the devil is in the details. Come back with a clean GM labeling law, perhaps with a safe harbor provision, and it will pass.

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Message 1303321 - Posted: 7 Nov 2012, 23:05:32 UTC - in response to Message 1303303.

my understanding of absentee ballots is that they aren't even counts unless the vote is clearly going to be close. I'd rather early vote than not be counted

Perhaps in Texas, but in Los Angeles County they are counted first. Gives the counters something to do while they wait for the ballots from the precincts to be delivered. The "provisional" ballots are counted last.


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Message 1303478 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 11:32:03 UTC
Last modified: 8 Nov 2012, 11:32:44 UTC

Now this suggests that Obama won from the votes of young, poorly paid, black women?

Vote spread

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Message 1303479 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 12:12:41 UTC - in response to Message 1303478.

Now this suggests that Obama won from the votes of young, poorly paid, black women?

Vote spread

let me see, he got the young vote, the hispanic vote, the black vote, the womens vote, the educated vote..

Yes there are some very unhappy old white men out there. But then grumpy old men is nothing new.

The latest is some of them are inquiring about moving to Canada, which last I checked was decidedly more liberal than the USA....

Maybe healthcare for everyone is okay there but not here?

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Message 1303482 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 12:20:30 UTC

But then grumpy old men is nothing new.

Certainly not around these forums Janice! I think we've cornered the market :-)

Can't blame people for looking at Canada, seems to have more going for it on paper.

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Message 1303510 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 14:15:43 UTC - in response to Message 1303482.

But then grumpy old men is nothing new.

Certainly not around these forums Janice! I think we've cornered the market :-)

Can't blame people for looking at Canada, seems to have more going for it on paper.



Is there money worth more? I do like LaBatts.
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Message 1303520 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 14:40:13 UTC - in response to Message 1303510.


Is there money worth more? I do like LaBatts.


Nope, just a fraction less.

Currently US$ is 1.59974 to the £, C$ is 1.59448 to the £.
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Message 1303529 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 14:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 1303478.

Now this suggests that Obama won from the votes of young, poorly paid, black women?

Vote spread

Lower-income voters went decisively for Mr Obama.

Bribery works. No surprise there.

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Message 1303559 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 16:46:27 UTC - in response to Message 1303529.

Now this suggests that Obama won from the votes of young, poorly paid, black women?

Vote spread

Lower-income voters went decisively for Mr Obama.

Bribery works. No surprise there.

you mean like a tax rebate?
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Message 1303597 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 17:38:57 UTC - in response to Message 1303575.

Now this suggests that Obama won from the votes of young, poorly paid, black women?

Vote spread

Lower-income voters went decisively for Mr Obama.

Bribery works. No surprise there.

you mean like a tax rebate?

No, more like getting in line for a 'Bamaphone and Obama's other ever ballooning welfare programs.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp
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