Thomas Petterfy ads


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Politics : Thomas Petterfy ads

Author Message
Profile Sarge
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Aug 99
Posts: 9201
Credit: 1,344,298
RAC: 1,633
United States
Message 1300633 - Posted: 31 Oct 2012, 3:45:49 UTC

I was born in a non-socialist country. I have lived my entire life in the same country. I was told, growing up, that if you were smart and worked hard, you could pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I am smart. I have worked very hard. But I have learned that Americans can have same strange ideas of what things are worth and WHAT successes are rewarded. That's not bad mouthing success. That's not some sign that I'll stop working hard. But this is the USA, and I sure as heck have the RIGHT to say that many things about our system our way out of whack.

Profile Sarge
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Aug 99
Posts: 9201
Credit: 1,344,298
RAC: 1,633
United States
Message 1300685 - Posted: 31 Oct 2012, 12:23:13 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2QtDExs6lM

Profile Sarge
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Aug 99
Posts: 9201
Credit: 1,344,298
RAC: 1,633
United States
Message 1300852 - Posted: 1 Nov 2012, 2:17:12 UTC

Nothing to say, my fellow Americans?!?
This is supposedly the heart of what this election is about!

Profile Sirius B
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 10131
Credit: 1,528,394
RAC: 283
United Kingdom
Message 1300853 - Posted: 1 Nov 2012, 2:18:43 UTC - in response to Message 1300852.

They're probably holding back after seeing me do the same for the UK & taking a hammering.

Careful for what you wish for.......
____________

Message 1300856 - Posted: 1 Nov 2012, 2:36:18 UTC

SargE4 said:

Nothing to say, my fellow Americans?!?
This is supposedly the heart of what this election is about!


Broheim: I do not click on your links, nor do I search when a name/word is offered. I might comment if you would put something in the message which is not a link or only a word/name.

I know you are ACHING for my comment/view. Work for it. Work hard for it. Think Of it as, DIGGING A DITCH. DIG IT? I knew that you could. Broheim.

The DEMON...ella
____________


Profile ignorance is no excuse
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 00
Posts: 9529
Credit: 44,433,274
RAC: 0
Korea, North
Message 1301006 - Posted: 1 Nov 2012, 16:13:56 UTC

I think that people that live in a totalitarian society and hate that society become quite polar in their views. Think Ayn Rand. Its always black and white. It has to be all or nothing for these folks.

As much as I admire people that come from former Communist states and do very well there are shockingly 1000's if not hundreds of thousands that don't do well. What about them. Suppose they aren't all as clever as him? If we all became wealthy then once again we'd all be poor.

I admire his tenaciousness and hardwork but what about the people that are tenacious and hardworking but just not good at business or just don't get that lucky break he got. What about them. It sounds good to say people can do it but the reality is very few can and do succeed. Are they communists/socialist for failing to do what he did? Are we lazy and socialists because we just don't like the idea of owning a convenience store and spending 12-14 hour a day working there.

Are we a spoiled society? Yes, We are. We think that because our parents did well that we should be handed the same privleges without having to earn it.
____________
In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

End terrorism by building a school

Profile James Sotherden
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 16 May 99
Posts: 8512
Credit: 30,989,145
RAC: 53,646
United States
Message 1301011 - Posted: 1 Nov 2012, 16:40:43 UTC

Are we a spoiled society? Yes, We are. We think that because our parents did well that we should be handed the same privleges without having to earn it.

Ive worked hard my whole life. But some people deemed it more prudent to make more money for the major stockholders by off shoring jobs.

Wait until China wants to cash in the bonds they bought from us so the politicians could spend like pigs.
____________

Old James

Profile Es99
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Aug 05
Posts: 8613
Credit: 244,003
RAC: 144
Canada
Message 1301747 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 17:47:46 UTC - in response to Message 1301006.

I think that people that live in a totalitarian society and hate that society become quite polar in their views. Think Ayn Rand. Its always black and white. It has to be all or nothing for these folks.

As much as I admire people that come from former Communist states and do very well there are shockingly 1000's if not hundreds of thousands that don't do well. What about them. Suppose they aren't all as clever as him? If we all became wealthy then once again we'd all be poor.

I admire his tenaciousness and hardwork but what about the people that are tenacious and hardworking but just not good at business or just don't get that lucky break he got. What about them. It sounds good to say people can do it but the reality is very few can and do succeed. Are they communists/socialist for failing to do what he did? Are we lazy and socialists because we just don't like the idea of owning a convenience store and spending 12-14 hour a day working there.

Are we a spoiled society? Yes, We are. We think that because our parents did well that we should be handed the same privleges without having to earn it.

There are good and bad things about any society.

Under Soviet Communism there were no homeless, very few unemployed, there was free childcare so that everyone could work, free healthcare, the transport system was free, the population was very highly educated as university education was free. On the downside there was brutal oppression, corruption, wanton destruction of the environment and no iphones.

Under American Capitalism there is the limited opportunity to get very wealthy (this pretty much depends on the background you are born into though), but only a few are, you are free to say anything you want, you are free to follow any religion you want, there are iphones.
However, there is insidious oppression and control, there is also brutal oppression when this does not work, corruption, extreme poverty, terrible education, the poor are vilified, the media is highly controlled by the super wealthy, there is no healthcare unless you have a job or lots of money and there is wanton destruction of the environment on a global scale and constant war. There are iphones though, although these come at a brutal humanitarian cost that is completely unacknowledged by most of the population because it happens to foreigners and they don't count as people.

Is there not some way would could perhaps drop our ideologies and come up with some sort of a system that has the best of both worlds?
____________
Are you a feminist? Take the test

Profile Sarge
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Aug 99
Posts: 9201
Credit: 1,344,298
RAC: 1,633
United States
Message 1302326 - Posted: 4 Nov 2012, 23:45:41 UTC

OK, folks. We're going to have a conversation about choices. Settle down, get comfortable, and read the comments following:

First, I overheard the following Friday morning: "I'm sorry that the people back East are going through what they are but you choose where you live."

The setting: I have a strange teaching schedule this semester. The first class I teach, all 5 days, starts at noon. I set my office hours to be 11a. A number of times I have arrived 7:30-9:30a (though usually closer to the latter). This past Friday, I wanted to get some work done, away from home, before my office hours but I did not feel like doing it at the office. A nearby convenience store has awesome coffee and, if not occupied, a place where I can sit and do grading.

Some guy, perhaps around my age, was sitting at the next table. Wielding a mediumly-nasting looking knife, he was sitting there, talking to a friend, using the knife to scratch off lottery tickets. Then, I overheard him make the comment about Hurricane Sandy, the pain of people back east (my home area) and that his sympathy could only go so far, because, as he claimed, "You choose where you live."

I made a brief comment, he retorted, said "Agree to disagree" (what a nice way to end something, I now realize ... a way to say "I cannot really defend my beliefs"). I continued to grade, fuming. And I fumed off and on throughout the day.

1) The hurricane was of unprecendented proportions, was it not?

2) What about the children? Anyone under 18 sure has NOT made the choice of whee they live, unless (s)he is a runaway, and I doubt many, or any, would advocate that.

3) The comment "You choose where you live" might seem like commonsense, as many things might seem. I've probably let that idea slip through my mind, too, from time to time. Why? Because we in the US are taught from an early age that we live free ... that we have freedom of choice.

Can you choose to live without air? Of course not. (Duh, you say to me, as you read.) But, wait a minute! We now know how to make oxygen tanks. People dive underwater, to great depths, for long periods of time. We've sent people into space and as far as the moon (unless you're a conspiracy theorist, lol).

But how many get to participate in those dives? The percentage, I'm sure is small. How much smaller, still, the percentage of human beings that have escaped Earth's bounds? We may be able to make choices, but within a limited set of options. There are ways to get around some of those limitations, to some extent. However, in the end, we are "finite creatures". Whether you are religious or agnostic or atheist, there are justifications I can make for that statement. We are limited. That includes that all of us, in one way or another, knowingly or not, come up against limitations in the choices we have available to us.

The guy that made that comment claimed he was able to choose to move back to this city, to raise a family. Certainly, going back someplace you've already been, with some connections already made, remains a choice to many, and perhaps it is easier to make. How easy is it, for most, to be 500-1000 miles, or more, from where they grew up, from family, from a familiar culture, and so on? How available is such an option, to many, when trying to make a go of it in life?

I can imagine that he, or someone of similar ways of thinking, would've gone on to say, the federal government should not fund emergency relief through either what we've been taxed, or borrowing from China. Particularly when those people should not have been living in an area prone to these problems. Again, understandable, common sense thinking, right?

But, again, this particular storm was unprecedented. Just like the earthquake near Roanoke VA about 13 months ago, which was preceded by an earthquake about 60-90 miles from me 36 hours before that. To my understanding, earthquakes are very rare here. (But, I've only been here 3 years, so maybe I've missed something?)

Many of you know I am intelligent and hard-working. But, perhaps I do not support the person you do for president. Maybe you wonder why. Could it be that I've been deceived on just this one kind of thing, but intelligent about other things?

I don't think so. I think that guy's comment cuts to the heart of what's been simmering in this country for years, about our fundamental beliefs, the types of storylines we embrace, the choices we make based on these things. I try not to subscribe to simple thinking. Only in math do you get clear cut answers. Science is messy. The whole rest of life is messy. This is why I do not embrace these stories, nor support a certain person for candidate.

Message 1302330 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 0:19:38 UTC

SargE said:

and read the comments following:


I read every word and did not enjoy the read. Everything you said could be summed in one word: Life.

We all know how it goes. So, there is, to me, no point in this boring read.

If other Professors opine such, I can see why there is a dirth of high achievers and less people capable of choices.

Fuming all day? Geez 'O Flip.

I made my choice. I live underground at The Dark Side of the Moon.

The R. DEMON...ella
____________


Profile Es99
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Aug 05
Posts: 8613
Credit: 244,003
RAC: 144
Canada
Message 1302335 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 0:37:01 UTC - in response to Message 1302326.
Last modified: 5 Nov 2012, 0:40:26 UTC

SargE said:

and read the comments following:



I read every word and did enjoy the read. Unfortunately there are people out there who don't want to hear it.
____________
Are you a feminist? Take the test

Profile Es99
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 23 Aug 05
Posts: 8613
Credit: 244,003
RAC: 144
Canada
Message 1302336 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 0:38:46 UTC - in response to Message 1302330.

..

If other Professors opine such, I can see why there is a dirth of high achievers and less people capable of choices.

...

This is a very unpleasant anti-intellectual statement. Seems you have more in common with Pol Pot than you realise.
____________
Are you a feminist? Take the test

Profile Sarge
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Aug 99
Posts: 9201
Credit: 1,344,298
RAC: 1,633
United States
Message 1302344 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 1:18:57 UTC

The capitalized E, though lacking the 4 usually included, is further indication of one's need for simple stories. In this case, there is no question that the conclusion drawn is demonstrably wrong. One wonders what other things simple thinker could be wrong about.

May the odds
be ever
in your favor.

Fo sho.


Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 2082
Credit: 37,619,008
RAC: 9,737
Message 1302347 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 1:31:27 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 16:37:59 UTC

--

bobby
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Mar 02
Posts: 1962
Credit: 14,628,733
RAC: 3,082
United States
Message 1302627 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 22:05:19 UTC - in response to Message 1302347.
Last modified: 5 Nov 2012, 22:05:34 UTC

Americans don't know what REAL

[quote]brutal oppression and control,
corruption,
extreme poverty,
terrible education,
poor,
media is highly controlled,
wanton destruction of the environment on a global scale and
constant war


is.

Are you an American? If so, by your owns words you don't know what these things are.

I say this with authority because as a former volunteer member of the most capable Air Force in the world I had the opportunity to see the results of REAL oppression, control, corruption, poverty, etc. in other parts of the world.


Interesting that you missed vilification of the poor and access to healthcare from your list (which appears to be based on Es's) and make no comment on "terrible education". Is this a tacit acceptance on your part that you have no disagreement with Es on these points?
____________
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...


Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 2082
Credit: 37,619,008
RAC: 9,737
Message 1302635 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 22:23:03 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 16:36:16 UTC

--

Message 1302663 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 23:31:36 UTC

American's don't know what poverty is. Those who claim to be living in poverty in the U.S. have air conditioning, hot clean tap water, a car, a TV, and a cell phone. They aren't worried about food because they have an EBT card.


Yep.

We have the best Skid Rows On Earth.

The Best Soup Kitchens.

The Best Food Banks.

The Best Churches.

The Best Jails.

The Best Vacant Buildings

The Best Caves

The Best Gutters

The Best Card Board boxes and Newspapers

The Best Flop Houses

Relatives who help(MEH! YUK!)

BLM Lands to Live On and Grow Sustenance(hehehe)

You know, The Best A Poor Person could want to Laz away DEM Po Days Fo Sho

And. You can Go North in Summer and South in Winter.

So, What's Da Beef Poor Folks? Eh?

Oh yeah, and FREE PHONES. Yipeeeee!

The DEMON...ella
____________


bobby
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 22 Mar 02
Posts: 1962
Credit: 14,628,733
RAC: 3,082
United States
Message 1302667 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 23:38:34 UTC - in response to Message 1302635.

bobby, stop insulting me.

Since I refuse to play your semantics game, you are now antagonizing me with tuants such as, "Are you an American?"

Ever lived in a country other than the U.K. or the U.S.?

I've been to countries you can't even imagine.

You don't know what poor is. Health care? They don't even think of that because they are too worried about finding drinkable water today. Education? Their education is finding something to eat every other day or so.

American's don't know what poverty is. Those who claim to be living in poverty in the U.S. have air conditioning, hot clean tap water, a car, a TV, and a cell phone. They aren't worried about food because they have an EBT card.

Stop insulting me.


No insult intended, nor an antagonizing taunt. You said there were somethings Americans didn't have real knowledge of, not me, and you are an American, correct? Your fast and loose use of the language, complete with sweeping generalizations and absolutes, provides ample opportunity to "play semantics games".

Considering how little you know of my life I find it particularly insulting that you make the assertions you do regarding what I have witnessed.

Before you again make the false claim about whether Americans know something or other, how about tempering your language a little, be a tad less absolute (I realize this might be tough)? "Many americans don't know ..." is likely a more accurate characterization. I suspect you do not know what constitutes as poverty in the US, as it seems to me there are many that do not have the luxuries you state those claiming to be living in poverty have.

What use is an EBT card if the grocery store does not have power?
____________
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Profile Sarge
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 25 Aug 99
Posts: 9201
Credit: 1,344,298
RAC: 1,633
United States
Message 1303446 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 6:46:09 UTC - in response to Message 1302347.

Americans don't know what REAL

brutal oppression and control,
corruption,
extreme poverty,
terrible education,
poor,
media is highly controlled,
wanton destruction of the environment on a global scale and
constant war


is.

Americans do know what

super wealthy


is.

I say this with authority because as a former volunteer member of the most capable Air Force in the world I had the opportunity to see the results of REAL oppression, control, corruption, poverty, etc. in other parts of the world.

Lose the guilt.
Be happy with what you can achieve.
Stop trying to equalize good and evil by being indiscriminate.
Stop being diametrically opposed to that which is good, right, and successful.
Stop siding with evil, wrong and behaviors that lead to failure.
Stop thinking good must be the beneficiary of some sort of prejudice.
Accept the fact that because there are evil people there will be war, poverty, crime, and injustice.
Fight evil, not those who are fighting evil.
Stop trying to eliminate rational thought.
Stop thinking rational and moral thought is an act of bigotry.
Believe in SOMETHING.
Have some STANDARDS.
Stop being utterly unwilling and incapable of critically judging the merits of a child's positions.
Stop believing that indiscriminateness is a moral imperative.
Stop believing America is EVIL.
Grow up beyond the age of Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and fairy tales.
Stop thinking that somehow success is the results of cheating.
Accept the fact that some people are smarter than others.

There IS another choice!

Realize individual freedom works best for any society. And the reason some of the things in the US are WAY OUT OF WACK and we are failing is because our government is taking more and more freedom away from its citizens.

And do what it takes to get out of debt!

There are still people in this world who are literally dying to cross our borders in order to have the freedom we still have today.

And the reason some people are wary of the cries from those who are suffering through the damage caused by Sandy is the absolutely reprehensible responses from the victims towards those who waded through the water and tried to help after Katrina.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp.
1/2 truths?
More later.
I know you can't wait.

Profile ignorance is no excuse
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 00
Posts: 9529
Credit: 44,433,274
RAC: 0
Korea, North
Message 1303682 - Posted: 8 Nov 2012, 19:34:20 UTC - in response to Message 1303446.

i like the part of a fee that the gov't imposes on telephone service providers that cannot be passed along to its subscribers. IIRC someone mentioned that the GOVT couldnt do that
____________
In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

End terrorism by building a school

Message boards : Politics : Thomas Petterfy ads

Copyright © 2014 University of California