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Message 1296350 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 21:27:28 UTC - in response to Message 1296342.  

What treaty are you quoting?
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Message 1296354 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 21:34:26 UTC
Last modified: 17 Oct 2012, 21:40:28 UTC

1. The Convention of the Transfer of Sentenced Persons, drawn up within the Council of Europe by a committee of governmental experts under the authority of the European Committee on Crime Problems (CDPC), was opened for signature on 21 March 1983.

2. The text of the explanatory report prepared on the basis of that committee’s discussions and submitted to the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe does not constitute an instrument providing an authoritative interpretation of the text of the Convention although it may facilitate the understanding of the Convention’s provisions.



Introduction

1. At their 11th Conference (Copenhagen, 21 and 22 June 1978), the European Ministers of Justice discussed the problems posed by prisoners of foreign nationality, including the question of providing procedures for their transfer so that they may serve their sentence in their home country. The discussion resulted in the adoption of Resolution No. 1, by which the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe is invited to ask the European Committee on Crime Problems (CDPC), inter alia, "to consider the possibility of drawing up a model agreement providing for a simple procedure for the transfer of prisoners which could be used between member States or by member States in their relations with non-member States".

2. Following this initiative, the creation of a Select Committee of Experts on Foreign Nationals in Prison was proposed by the CDPC at its 28th Plenary Session in March 1979 and authorised by the Committee of Ministers at the 306th meeting of their Deputies in June 1979.

3. The committee’s principal tasks were to study the problems relating to the treatment of foreigners in prison and to consider the possibility of drawing up a model agreement providing for a simple procedure for the transfer of foreign prisoners. With regard to the latter aspect, the CDPC (at its 29th Plenary Session in March 1980) authorised the Select Committee, at its own request, to prepare a multilateral convention rather than a model agreement, provided it would not conflict with the provisions of existing European conventions.

4. The Select Committee was composed of experts from fifteen Council of Europe member States (Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Federal Republic of Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, United Kingdom). Canada and the United States of America as well as the Commonwealth Secretariat and the International Penal and Penitentiary Foundation were represented by observers. Mr. J. J. Tulkens (the Netherlands) was elected Chairman of the Select Committee. The secretariat was provided by the Directorate of Legal Affairs of the Council of Europe.

Can you find anything different to this Gary for this treaty seems to bind all
that were there, either representing a European country or others such as the USA.
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Message 1296358 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 21:58:46 UTC - in response to Message 1296354.  

http://www.travel.state.gov/law/legal/treaty/treaty_1989.html
Q:IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A PERSON CONVICTED OF A CRIME IN ONE COUNTRY TO BE TRANSFERRED TO HIS/HER HOME COUNTRY WHERE HE/SHE WILL SERVE THE REMAINDER OF HIS/HER SENTENCE?

a:Yes. Under U.S. law (18 U.S.C. §§ 4100-4115) foreign nationals convicted of a crime in the United States, and United States citizens or nationals convicted of a crime in a foreign country, may apply for a prisoner transfer to their home country if a treaty providing for such transfer is in force between the United States and the foreign country involved.


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Message 1296359 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 22:06:20 UTC

a:There is a distinction between prisoners serving sentences in State or local facilities and prisoners convicted in federal courts serving sentences in federal facilities in the United States. See the Department of Justice International Prisoner Transfer web site. Some states in the United States lack enthusiasm for prisoner transfer treaties and some have indicated an unwillingness to participate in such transfers. All the states, Puerto Rico and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands have enacted implementing legislation. A state prisoner must first apply to the appropriate state authority and be approved for transfer before the Department of Justice will review the request. The relevant state authorities and applicable state statutes can be found on the Department of Justice website. As previously noted, prisoner transfer treaties require the consent of three parties: (1) the transferring State; (2) the receiving state and (3) the prisoner, before a transfer can take place. In addition, a prisoner incarcerated in a state institution must obtain the consent of the state's authorities as well in order to transfer pursuant to a treaty (18 U.S.C. § 4102
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Message 1296362 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 22:09:06 UTC - in response to Message 1296359.  
Last modified: 17 Oct 2012, 22:15:18 UTC

Yes, and Mr. McKinnon faces federal charges, not state charges, so the last part does not apply. Rather obviously if the UK didn't want him back ... so that is a non-issue. He would also have to want to go back ... so that is a non-issue. Now as to if the USA wants to get rid of him, he has a right here to ask for such a review, which is above the treaty rights, which are some person in government decides to look at the case.

Why would the US want him? They figured out what he did and how he did it a long time ago. It costs them less to ship him back than keep him locked up.
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Message 1296372 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 22:40:46 UTC
Last modified: 17 Oct 2012, 22:43:17 UTC

Home » Agencies » Criminal Division » Organizations » Office of Enforcement Operations Home
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Office of Enforcement Operations Home
International Prisoner Transfer Program
How the Program Works
Guidelines for Evaluating Transfer Applications
Participating Countries
Post-Approval Procedures
Transfer of State Prisoners
State Prisoner Contacts and Statutes
Americans (PDF) Incarcerated Abroad
What Prisoners and Families Can Do
Statistics
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Criminal Division Home

Guidelines for the Evaluation of Transfer Applications of Federal Prisoners


The United States can only transfer a prisoner to a country with which it has a prisoner transfer treaty relationship and of which the prisoner is a citizen. Occasionally, we are asked to transfer a prisoner whose most significant ties are neither to the receiving country nor to the sending country, but are to a third country with which the United States does not have a treaty. Although the prisoner is applying to transfer to the "receiving" country with which we have a treaty relationship, the facts suggest that the prisoner will likely return to the "no treaty" third country once his sentence is complete. Such cases need to be carefully evaluated. If the receiving country will accept the prisoner, if the prisoner is not a significant offender, and if incarceration in the receiving country seems to be in the prisoner’s best interests, we will sometimes permit the transfer to take place.

So far this is the only reference I can find although not totally applicable...
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Message 1296378 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 22:52:18 UTC - in response to Message 1296314.  

Strange infliction is autism, and some of you will know that many sufferers from autism tend also to poses immense intelligence hence capabilities in certain fields where they apply an ability.


Agreed. He did seem intelligent enough about computer systems to know to hack, however...

With this chap in question there is every chance that he did not actually realise the actual severity of the crime he was committing. He is most probably totally incapable of being responsible nor rational and through the nature of his ailment liable to be irresponsible in most of what he does. He possess the ability of a computer scientist but unfortunately though this is combined with the mental age of a 10 year old.


People who do not know what they are doing is wrong do not attempt to hide what they are doing. Mr. McKinnon attempted to cover his tracks on Government systems indicating he was fully aware that he knew what he was doing. Further, if he did possess high intelligence in computer hacking, he had to have known that deleting important system files required to boot the system would have rendered that machine useless until a re-image of the OS occurred.

These are the reasons why I do not buy into your argument(s).

Sufferers of Asperger's Syndrome are totally incapable of facing up to what they have done wrong and certainly incapable of standing up in any court.


You may want to double-check your information here. Regardless if you're mentally ill, mentally slow or have a disability such as Asperger's, no one can escape having their day before a judge - even if the sentencing is different due to those issues. Even those in the care of others can be held accountable for their actions, which typically means those in charge of their care suffer the consequences for being irresponsible enough to have allowed the incident to occur.
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Message 1296379 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 22:57:14 UTC - in response to Message 1296372.  

So far this is the only reference I can find although not totally applicable...

Not very applicable. I'm sure with some infamous or heinous crimes it wouldn't be permitted, but routine cases are just that, routine.

If there is a deportation order attached to the end of the sentence they might be all to happy to do it sooner rather than later.

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Message 1296382 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 23:00:28 UTC - in response to Message 1296379.  

So far this is the only reference I can find although not totally applicable...

Not very applicable. I'm sure with some infamous or heinous crimes it wouldn't be permitted, but routine cases are just that, routine.

If there is a deportation order attached to the end of the sentence they might be all to happy to do it sooner rather than later.

He did commit treason against the USA...

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Message 1296385 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 23:12:02 UTC - in response to Message 1296382.  

He did commit treason against the USA...

He is an American Citizen?
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Message 1296391 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 23:22:30 UTC

You may want to double-check your information here. Regardless if you're mentally ill, mentally slow or have a disability such as Asperger's, no one can escape having their day before a judge - even if the sentencing is different due to those issues. Even those in the care of others can be held accountable for their actions, which typically means those in charge of their care suffer the consequences for being irresponsible enough to have allowed the incident to occur.

Difficult to apportion blame on to the carer unless it can be proved that the
carer could have known or suspected to have known that he was committing a
crime via the use of a computer. The carer would fairly need to be quite
computer literate themselves...I suspect his mother has never touched a
computer in her life.

No, people can and do escape having their day before a judge if it's deemed
their not medically fit to stand for trial.

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Message 1296395 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 23:27:43 UTC - in response to Message 1296385.  

He did commit treason against the USA...

He is an American Citizen?

I should have mentioned from that category of crimes not just treason but spying
too which is the one applicable here.....my error.

Have you managed to find any other document regarding federal imprisonment
and the potential for home country repatriation?


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Message 1296404 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 0:11:43 UTC - in response to Message 1296391.  
Last modified: 18 Oct 2012, 0:23:05 UTC

Difficult to apportion blame on to the carer unless it can be proved that the carer could have known or suspected to have known that he was committing a
crime via the use of a computer. The carer would fairly need to be quite
computer literate themselves...I suspect his mother has never touched a
computer in her life.


Sorry, but that excuse doesn't work. If you don't know what the person you're caring for is doing, it's your fault for not being more involved in their daily lives.

No, people can and do escape having their day before a judge if it's deemed their not medically fit to stand for trial.


No, they have a default judgement made against them as there is no point to determine if they knew what they were doing was wrong, but the crime doesn't go without sentencing of some sort. For example, mentally unstable people can be sentenced to mandatory life in an asylum depending on the severity of their illness.
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Message 1296421 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 0:44:17 UTC - in response to Message 1296391.  

No, people can and do escape having their day before a judge if it's deemed
their not medically fit to stand for trial.

In most legal systems I'm aware of that, medical fitness, is determined by Judge and or Jury. Hard to say they don't go before a judge in that case.

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Message 1296427 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 0:57:56 UTC - in response to Message 1296395.  

He did commit treason against the USA...

He is an American Citizen?

I should have mentioned from that category of crimes not just treason but spying
too which is the one applicable here.....my error.

And we did do spy swaps in the cold war.

Have you managed to find any other document regarding federal imprisonment
and the potential for home country repatriation?

Other than the page I think you quoted http://www.justice.gov/criminal/oeo/iptu/guidelines.html no.

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Message 1296431 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 1:09:37 UTC

Apparently the acts were committed at the home of his girl friends Aunt. Cannot see how you tie a carer in there.
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Message 1296445 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 2:29:32 UTC - in response to Message 1296431.  
Last modified: 18 Oct 2012, 2:40:24 UTC

The carer argument was just an example of how people are made to be responsible.


If he hid his activities away from his caretaker (mother?) by doing it at his girlfriend's house, that only strengthens the argument that he knew what he was doing was wrong and tried to hide it.
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Message 1296518 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 14:05:31 UTC - in response to Message 1296421.  

No, people can and do escape having their day before a judge if it's deemed
their not medically fit to stand for trial.

In most legal systems I'm aware of that, medical fitness, is determined by Judge and or Jury. Hard to say they don't go before a judge in that case.

An independent Psychiatrists post examination makes the recommendation on
fitness to stand trial. The judge then is led by this recommendation and is
highly unlikely to go against the Psychiatrists decision.

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Message 1296520 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 14:07:49 UTC - in response to Message 1296427.  

He did commit treason against the USA...

He is an American Citizen?

I should have mentioned from that category of crimes not just treason but spying
too which is the one applicable here.....my error.

And we did do spy swaps in the cold war.

Have you managed to find any other document regarding federal imprisonment
and the potential for home country repatriation?

Other than the page I think you quoted http://www.justice.gov/criminal/oeo/iptu/guidelines.html no.

Looks like the courts out on this one then Gary...(joke)

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Message 1296531 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 14:43:47 UTC
Last modified: 18 Oct 2012, 14:45:12 UTC

Meanwhile, how many Americans are serving 60 years or more for criminally leaving Windows wide open for anyone anywhere in the world to simply 'walk in' unchallenged to access that same data?


This all sounds more like a witch hunt and retribution and making a stark example rather than anything useful, let alone proportionate or 'fair'.

Russia has the Pussy Riot fiasco. America has the Gary McKinnon oppressive persecution.


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