"Logan's Run" no longer Fiction


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Sirius B
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Message 1301519 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 1:34:45 UTC

That was fast work! Anti-Establishment Tabloid does it again

"Hospitals have even been paid incentives of £30million to hit targets for the number of patients on the pathway" Logan's Care Program
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Message 1301635 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 11:36:34 UTC

It is the duty of any responsible newspaper to inform the public of serious wrongdoings and injustices, that they might otherwise not be aware of. In cases like the Pathway, the Mail did a service to the community by highlighting such a malpractice. It is doing it again today via articles on the immunity given to tax evaders, and the fiddling of GCSE grades. That is investigative journalism at its best.

Unfortunately, the Mail is also constantly trying to undermine the Government and politicians, and that is why I have called it anti-establishment. I stand by my criticism.



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Message 1301689 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 15:13:51 UTC - in response to Message 1301635.

It is the duty of any responsible newspaper to inform the public of serious wrongdoings and injustices

Where did you get that pap?! It is their duty to make money for the shareholder. They have no other duty. Murdoch makes sure every reporter working for him knows that.


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Message 1301694 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 15:31:00 UTC
Last modified: 3 Nov 2012, 15:40:51 UTC

It is SUPPOSED to be the duty of any responsible newspaper to inform the public of serious wrongdoings and injustices. That clearly is not so in the case of Murdoch publications. Wouldn't it be nice if someone took him up a dark alley and gave him a good duffing up, and his empire was shut down, the world wwould be a better place.

I wont hold my breath, I suggest you don't hold yours either.

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Message 1301699 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 15:35:35 UTC - in response to Message 1301519.

That was fast work! Anti-Establishment Tabloid does it again

"Hospitals have even been paid incentives of £30million to hit targets for the number of patients on the pathway" Logan's Care Program


All very distressing, though, while the Mail and the Telegraph (and perhaps some posters here) have suggested it's the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) program that's a fault:

the LCP recommendations make it very clear that:

    while legal consent is not required to place a patient on the LCP, the fact that the plan is being considered should always be discussed with a relative or carer and, if possible, the patient themselves
    there should never be an occasion when a relative or carer who is named as the main contact is not informed when a diagnosis that the person is dying has been made
    withdrawal of nutrition and fluids should never be a routine option, but done only if it is felt to be in the best interests of the patient, judged on a case-by-case basis


[...]
What does the Department of Health say?

The Independent reports that the Department of Health says that it doesn’t provide direct financial incentives for trusts to use the LCP. However, local areas may choose to have these in place.

A Department of Health spokesman told the Independent: “The LCP is supported by more than 20 leading organisations, including Marie Curie Cancer Care and Age UK, as a way to help meet the care and dignity needs for those who are at the end of their life.

“We are clear the LCP can only work if each patient is fully consulted, where this is feasible, and their family involved in all aspects of decision-making. Staff must properly communicate with the patient and their family – any failure to do so is unacceptable."


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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1301701 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 15:44:53 UTC - in response to Message 1301694.

It is SUPPOSED to be the duty of any responsible newspaper to inform the public of serious wrongdoings and injustices.

That was the line some time ago. However the lawyers, bless their souls, proved in court that the fiduciary duty to the shareholder overrides any other duty, such as informing the public of wrongdoing. Any reporter/editor who doesn't know this will quickly find themselves out of a job and any manager who doesn't enforce this in bankruptcy court unable to pay the shareholders their tons of flesh for breaching his duty.

What? You are editor. You have a story about wrongs and you have a page 3 girl photo. You have only so much ink and paper in your budget. Which do you run? Which one brings in more advertising money? That is the one you run!


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Message 1301709 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 16:02:03 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 16:25:42 UTC

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Message 1301749 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 17:54:44 UTC - in response to Message 1301709.

...Short-term thinking is liberalism.

And not thinking at all is Tea Party conservatism.

T.A.

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Message 1301753 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 18:03:38 UTC - in response to Message 1301749.

...Short-term thinking is liberalism.

And not thinking at all is Tea Party conservatism.

T.A.

+1
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Message 1301773 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 18:38:24 UTC - in response to Message 1301749.

...Short-term thinking is liberalism.

And not thinking at all is Tea Party conservatism.

Thinking long term is Libertarianism.

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Message 1301782 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 19:10:16 UTC - in response to Message 1301701.

It is SUPPOSED to be the duty of any responsible newspaper to inform the public of serious wrongdoings and injustices.

That was the line some time ago. However the lawyers, bless their souls, proved in court that the fiduciary duty to the shareholder overrides any other duty, such as informing the public of wrongdoing. Any reporter/editor who doesn't know this will quickly find themselves out of a job and any manager who doesn't enforce this in bankruptcy court unable to pay the shareholders their tons of flesh for breaching his duty.

What? You are editor. You have a story about wrongs and you have a page 3 girl photo. You have only so much ink and paper in your budget. Which do you run? Which one brings in more advertising money? That is the one you run!


Im getting so sick and tired of hearing this fiduciary duty crap!!! Maybe the damn lawyers need to be horse whipped in front of the Supreme Court and be sued for for fiscal malefeasance. When making money overcomes any moral obligations its damn plain wrong. That law needs to be changed . But as long as we have a lying, stealing, whats in it for me congrass, that will never happen.
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Message 1301784 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 19:11:26 UTC - in response to Message 1301782.

Excellent reply. +1
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Message 1301793 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 19:41:33 UTC

I think the Supreme Court needs to be dragged out of the building an tarred and feathered for Citizens United and other fiduciary duty rulings. Yes we MUST change the law!

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Message 1302077 - Posted: 4 Nov 2012, 14:13:32 UTC - in response to Message 1301793.

I think the Supreme Court needs to be dragged out of the building an tarred and feathered for Citizens United and other fiduciary duty rulings. Yes we MUST change the law!

Agreed 100%
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Message 1302579 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 19:45:53 UTC - in response to Message 1302077.

lets go back 100 years and repeal the " money is free speech" nonsense. This basically tells people that the wealthy have more free speech than the poor. that is stale horse puckey
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Message 1302634 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 22:22:53 UTC - in response to Message 1302579.

lets go back 100 years and repeal the " money is free speech" nonsense. This basically tells people that the wealthy have more free speech than the poor. that is stale horse puckey

Well, it won't change anything other than they will have to pay tax on it. They will still buy more ads than the poor.

However I'm for a more basic change. That a corporation is a license and any condition the legislature sees fit can be put on that license, including a restriction on speech.

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Message 1302638 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 22:26:13 UTC

beginning to stray way off topic here.
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Message 1302644 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 22:38:06 UTC - in response to Message 1302638.

beginning to stray way off topic here.

Perhaps if someone stayed out of the US political topics there might be reciprocal behavior, too much to hope for I'm sure ...

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Message 1302652 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 23:00:58 UTC - in response to Message 1302644.
Last modified: 5 Nov 2012, 23:02:04 UTC

At least my posts/questions were on topic.

Edit: & that maybe the reason why america is no longer liked by the rest of the world....

too arrogant maybe?
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Message 1302664 - Posted: 5 Nov 2012, 23:34:39 UTC - in response to Message 1302644.

beginning to stray way off topic here.

Perhaps if someone stayed out of the US political topics there might be reciprocal behavior, too much to hope for I'm sure ...

The problem is that US politics just about affect everybody else on the planet, so expressing our views is probably legitimate as it might just modify your stance so that the US doesn't become the most disliked nation.

P.S. Thanks for taking this position away from us in the UK, it tended to make us paranoid.

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