"Logan's Run" no longer Fiction


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Sirius B
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Message 1295554 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 13:19:16 UTC

Well, it had to happen I suppose......

.....What next? Over time, reduce the age so that those that do nothing for the benefit of society, are put to sleep?

Care? No, Welcome to "Logan's Run"

"Care Pathway" to the grave
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Message 1295602 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 15:34:15 UTC
Last modified: 22 Mar 2014, 12:49:33 UTC

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Message 1295679 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 17:42:15 UTC

One cancer patient who had suffered a heart attack and been put on the LCP had all his tubes and drips removed, including hydrating fluids, on the false grounds that he was dying.
Once his horrified family realised what was going on and took steps to guard him in order to ensure he was nourished and treated, he recovered and lived for another month.
A whole month. WOW. A cancer patient that is in intense and constant pain lived a whole month longer. We still don't know how long this patient would have lived without the tubes and fluid pumps. I assume it was a miserable month for that poor patient.

Herein lies the problem. People assume length over quality when it comes to life. If you are terminal and in excessive pain there is little that can be done for a patient than make them comfortable in the final days. Its clear that the family insisted on fighting until the end. This is a suck justification for allowing a patient to die in peace instead of being hooked up to machines.
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Message 1295713 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 19:12:45 UTC - in response to Message 1295679.

This is a suck justification for allowing a patient to die in peace instead of being hooked up to machines.

+1
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Message 1295714 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 19:17:05 UTC


Most UK Hospices allow patients to pass away in peace and dignity. NHS hospitals do not.

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Message 1295800 - Posted: 16 Oct 2012, 0:42:39 UTC - in response to Message 1295714.
Last modified: 16 Oct 2012, 0:43:44 UTC

By saying that I guess you mean that you end up becoming just a number and not a name at all.

In the end we are most likely born to this life in order to die away from it as well.

Does it possibly happen in two different ways?

What happens in the meantime? Are we supposed to learn or experience something while we live? Should we make any conclusions at the final end perhaps?

What a shame for possibly living a long life. Guess what you may have learnt and experieced during the time you were alive here on this earth.

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Message 1295801 - Posted: 16 Oct 2012, 0:44:58 UTC - in response to Message 1295679.

IMO, when the time comes I want to go out fast.
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Message 1295812 - Posted: 16 Oct 2012, 1:22:49 UTC - in response to Message 1295714.


Most UK Hospices allow patients to pass away in peace and dignity. NHS hospitals do not.



Not in my experience, Chris.

On the haematology ward we had two terminal patients who were overseen by nurses on a 15 minute basis. They adjusted their morphine for the pain levels until they slipped away quietly.
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Message 1295901 - Posted: 16 Oct 2012, 8:56:14 UTC

Glad to hear that John, so much negative NHS stuff around these days. Perhaps I should have said "are often not able to".

The reason that I said that was that Hospices are mostly specifically set up and run for terminally ill patients, and staffed by Macmillan nurses and others trained in terminal care. What normally happens is that people stay in an NHS hospital until there is nothing more that can be done for them medically, and then they are transferred to a Hospice for the last few weeks.

It frees up a hospital bed and puts the patient into specialist dedicated care, as much for the benefit of the immediate relatives as for the patient. They have special visiting areas and counseling which cannot always be supplied in a busy hospital. It has happened in my family within the last 12 months. Locally we have the Princess Alice Hospice which I have raised money for in the past.

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Message 1295906 - Posted: 16 Oct 2012, 9:14:49 UTC

Personally, I think it's all down to the hospital itself & the quality of it's staff.

Seven years ago next month, I received an emergency call from a family member. My father had collapsed [he'd had a major heart attack] & unfortunately, cracked his head against the fridge on his way down.

By the time the emergency services got to him, I felt it was too late (took 31 minutes - you've only got 3 min if starved of oxygen).

By the time we all got to the hospital, he had been resusitated several times & I had been asked by the doctor, after explaining matters that I was already aware of, whether or not the resusitate again. I gave a negative as we had all seen what out late mother went through & did not want to see, what was a very active man, go through the same.

With what I've seen in some hospitals, I feel that people should have to right to be at their loved ones last moments if possible.
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Message 1295981 - Posted: 16 Oct 2012, 14:59:39 UTC

I think familys should also communicate what there final wishes are.
My second wife told me repeatedly over the years she did not want to be hooked up to a machine. Well she was in an auto accident had sufferd massive brain injuries. They did a brain scan and other tests and told me that she was brain dead, only the macines kept her alive. I pulled the plug according to her wishes. I didnt like making that decision, But it was one she made and I abided by it.

Now that Im remarried, We have talked about what our final wishes will be. Yes its not a fun topic to discuss but it needs to be done.
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Message 1296038 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 3:48:38 UTC

Using "Logan's Run" as an example is stretching it a bit. As I recall they all were terminated at the age of thirty. Now in "Soilent Green" you could choose to end it all and have a nice long drift into permanent slumber while watching scenes from a world that no longer existed.
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Message 1296088 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 7:28:36 UTC - in response to Message 1295554.

.....What next? Over time, reduce the age so that those that do nothing for the benefit of society, are put to sleep?


In "The Giver", I believe it was referred to as "being released".
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Sirius B
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Message 1296105 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 9:32:29 UTC - in response to Message 1296038.

Using "Logan's Run" as an example is stretching it a bit. As I recall they all were terminated at the age of thirty. Now in "Soilent Green" you could choose to end it all and have a nice long drift into permanent slumber while watching scenes from a world that no longer existed.


Not really Bob. I did state in the 1st post, what next? Reduce the age over time. Who knows what mankind will be doing in, say, a 100 years from now.
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Message 1296387 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 23:12:54 UTC
Last modified: 17 Oct 2012, 23:13:00 UTC

THERE IS NO SANCTUARY
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Message 1296458 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 5:08:17 UTC

Then there is ZARDOX depicting a future time when some of mankind lives so long they get bored with living. Trying to predict man'ssituation 100 years from now is about as hard as predicting the wearther.
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Sirius B
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Message 1297133 - Posted: 20 Oct 2012, 9:35:13 UTC

Just how many hospitals are actually using LCP?

I'm shocked to find Addenbrookes using it. My wife spent a month in Intensive care there in 2005 & the staff were absolutely brilliant.

So the question is: - Is the current government destroying everything it gets involved in?

Addenbrookes LCP
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Message 1300496 - Posted: 30 Oct 2012, 10:40:59 UTC

district nurses now doctors

Medical Profession's lethal arrogance

Had to happen eventually. Who's next? We've had the Government, Bankers, Police, Media,Civil Service......

...how about the peasantry? A nice little uprising will keep the media & politicians happy for a while.
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Message 1300516 - Posted: 30 Oct 2012, 12:35:02 UTC

The Peasants' Revolt, Wat Tyler's Rebellion, or the Great Rising of 1381 was one of a number of popular revolts in late medieval Europe and is a major event in the history of England. Tyler's Rebellion was not only the most extreme and widespread insurrection in English history but also the best-documented popular rebellion to have occurred during medieval times. The names of some of its leaders, John Ball, Wat Tyler and Jack Straw, are still familiar in popular culture, although little is known of them.


Not sure that we would get very far though, with these two ....

Peasants



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Message 1300519 - Posted: 30 Oct 2012, 12:41:16 UTC - in response to Message 1300516.

The Peasants' Revolt, Wat Tyler's Rebellion, or the Great Rising of 1381 was one of a number of popular revolts in late medieval Europe and is a major event in the history of England. Tyler's Rebellion was not only the most extreme and widespread insurrection in English history but also the best-documented popular rebellion to have occurred during medieval times. The names of some of its leaders, John Ball, Wat Tyler and Jack Straw, are still familiar in popular culture, although little is known of them.



Wasn't he a recent Home Secretary? No wonder the country's in a mess.... :)
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