How tight is the United States budget, really?


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Message 1296759 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 0:26:49 UTC - in response to Message 1296755.

+1
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Message 1296784 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 3:21:07 UTC - in response to Message 1296753.
Last modified: 19 Oct 2012, 3:43:35 UTC

The question I asked was, "show me the math." You couldn't even begin to show me the math.

I showed you in my first post all the numbers necessary to see that an adequate safety net would not be "too expensive" and I told you to ask specific questions when you want specific answers. You failed.

You let a lot people down in here.

Nobody else has said anything about being let down, liar.

I then showed you the math with the available data.

That's not true. You only offered irrelevant data.

Liberals want to stick it to the rich.

Conservative ideology is all about looting wealth from those who do the actual work of producing it, and then scapegoating the victims.

I noticed you skipped over the part of my post that says Romney wants to do what you suggest, only in a less extreme way.

If you want to discuss something specific, then ask a specific question. I have suggested nothing "extreme" and Romney's only sensible suggestion is eliminating all deductions and exemptions for the wealthy. Capping them for the middle class is unacceptable, and other than that all he seems to offer is unsubstantiated assertions about a plan that all economists agree is impossible. Either he would not balance the budget, or he would raise taxes that he claims he would not, and that's why he hasn't offered any specifics.

Or does Romney have an actual plan to discuss, today? His "five (talking) points" are just meaningless slogans, because not one detail has ever been attached to any of them -- last time I checked. And Romney has a research staff, or at least he has enough budget that he could (and should) hire a research staff of dozens of economists without noticing the expense, but all his campaign has actually done is commission Marty Feldstain to write op-eds, also with no details, asserting that Romney's math works out but offering no evidence of such. In my first post, I provided more detail than he has.

Liberals saying they want to cut the military, and then not cutting the military is part of the fraud and deceit they are playing on the less informed liberals. I know this. I was in the military.

And I know that the Obama campaign has received more direct contributions from currently serving soldiers than the Romney campaign. Do you suppose it has more to do with Romney's uninformed saber-rattling or with President Obama's successes where Bush failed, for example bin Laden?

So, you say our national debt is small. Then I guess almost 9% of our mandatory spending on servicing the debt is no big deal? More than $200B in interest payments alone is not a big deal? Ok then. Let's borrow more. Let's see where the limit is.

There you go again. The debt and deficit deserve serious attention, but not the hair-on-fire panic that you and Paul Ryan claim. That would be pants-on-fire panic, but neither of you has the first clue what you're talking about. We know from observation of other nations that a debt equal to 200% of GDP has not caused chaos in Japan, for example. Do you know why a 211% debt/GDP ratio is less serious there than 134% debt/GDP in Greece? Granted, it's tougher in Japan than in the 80s and early 90s, but it's obviously not the disaster Republicans claim is imminent here. And under current policies, by 2019 we'll still be less than halfway to 200%. So obviously, you debt & deficit Chicken Littles are either ignoramuses or liars.

Go take a pill, relax and stop trying to make everybody freak out about the debt. I'm sure Rush Limbaugh can hook you up with whatever it is you need to relax, you dishonest, psychotic papillon.
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Message 1296796 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 4:48:38 UTC - in response to Message 1296753.

.....Liberals want to stick it to the rich. Accept this. It's true. Liberals think the rich should pay for everything. It's called Marxism/redistribution/share the wealth.

Is it really "sticking it to the rich" or wanting them to play by the same rules as everyone else ?

If I pay 30% of my income as tax (Oz tax rates). Am I wrong to expect a billionaire not to pay the same percentage ? If a person earning $10M pays $3M in tax they still have $7M to play with. The effect on them is much less than the 30% I pay, which does put a dent in my spending power.

We all know that the upper end have many lurks available to them for tax minimisation that while available to the average Joe, are too expensive to make it worthwhile for them. There is a "breakpoint" where the cost of setting up family companies, trusts etc. becomes worthwhile. (I've mentioned in other threads the Australian billionaire who filed a tax return claiming a taxable income of $17,000).

The undercurrent of resentment against the 1% at the minute I feel is more due to HOW they made their money rather than how much they actually have.

Rockefeller, Getty, and the other "Robber Barons" of the late 1800's may not have have been the most honest people on the planet but they produced things. They built railroads, drilled for oil, built factories and their efforts not only made them rich but the whole country benefited.

The modern "Robber Baron" however makes his billions by using other peoples money to gamble in the casino of the International Financial System. Shares, Currency Speculation and "derivatives" (which in reality have less "real" value than the paper they are printed on). All are fair game and, win or lose they still get their multi-million dollar bonuses and commissions but nobody benefits but them.

The Stock Exchange, which I have seen staunchly defended in various threads as "a place for companies to raise capital" has become totally bastardised, a place where shares are bought by a computer and then resold less than a second later. This is not what they were intended for !

As has been shown, when you have billions of dollars to play with, manipulating the "markets" is easy.

Welcome back demonella,

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Message 1296797 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 4:51:29 UTC - in response to Message 1295511.

Chris. there is no difference here between private and public. Anything disclosed to the IRS is zipped lips.

But that IRS info is shared with the SSA, as is My checking account, the SSA can see what's in My checking account.

Me I pay property taxes, sales and excise on whatever I buy in CA, anything from outside CA or the USA, I don't, but then I have no way to do so and I've asked the SSA and they said No, so paying any sales tax thru a CA income tax form is impossible.
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Message 1296799 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 5:00:31 UTC - in response to Message 1296729.

Romney and Ryan do lie a lot.

Of course. They are both politicians, therefore it's given.

For one politician to accuse another of lying is nothing but sheer, bare faced hypocrisy.

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Message 1296801 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 5:05:25 UTC - in response to Message 1296796.

Terror, your onto something, and by the way the Fourth was once Dull.
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Message 1296802 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 5:09:21 UTC - in response to Message 1296801.

Terror, your onto something, and by the way the Fourth was once Dull.

And a worm :-)

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Message 1296804 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 5:14:04 UTC - in response to Message 1296797.

Chris. there is no difference here between private and public. Anything disclosed to the IRS is zipped lips.

But that IRS info is shared with the SSA, as is My checking account, the SSA can see what's in My checking account.

Me I pay property taxes, sales and excise on whatever I buy in CA, anything from outside CA or the USA, I don't, but then I have no way to do so and I've asked the SSA and they said No, so paying any sales tax thru a CA income tax form is impossible.

Vic, this is what you have to follow then you are good to go. Doesn't cost you a dime. All I can say, better safe then sorry.
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Message 1296805 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 5:15:09 UTC

Please be nice.
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Message 1296806 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 5:15:47 UTC - in response to Message 1296799.

Romney and Ryan do lie a lot.

Of course. They are both politicians, therefore it's given.

For one politician to accuse another of lying is nothing but sheer, bare faced hypocrisy.

T.A.

The only place Romney/Ryan possibly doesn't lie at is in legislation...

Republicans in power today are Barry Goldwater Republicans, My Dad was an Eisenhower Republican...

Government is Good - An Unapologetic Defense of a Vital Institution...
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Message 1296808 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 5:19:07 UTC

Sorry Vic, I missed posting the link.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/pam71.htm
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Message 1296811 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 5:36:53 UTC - in response to Message 1296808.

Sorry Vic, I missed posting the link.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/pam71.htm

Sorry Uli, but Supplemental Security Income is not Taxable Income, so that link is interesting for all of maybe 5 seconds... And to Me quite useless...
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Message 1296821 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 6:07:57 UTC - in response to Message 1296806.

VW - not quite -- Goldwater was more libertarian -- and pro-choice (his wife was an executive officer of Planned Parenthood in Arizona. Goldwater was also dismissive of the religious right. As to taxes, he voted against the Democratic bill to reduce taxes in 1964.

I take your point though -- I moved to Arizona back in 1979. I was a Lowell Weicker Republican from Connecticut. Out here, these days, that makes me a socialist.

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Message 1296823 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 6:11:57 UTC - in response to Message 1296811.
Last modified: 19 Oct 2012, 6:14:30 UTC

Sorry Vic, I missed posting the link.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/pam71.htm

Sorry Uli, but Supplemental Security Income is not Taxable Income, so that link is interesting for all of maybe 5 seconds... And to Me quite useless...

Vic, that is not the point. You buy online and that is the point.
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Message 1296826 - Posted: 19 Oct 2012, 6:52:54 UTC - in response to Message 1296823.
Last modified: 19 Oct 2012, 6:59:20 UTC

Sorry Vic, I missed posting the link.
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/pam71.htm

Sorry Uli, but Supplemental Security Income is not Taxable Income, so that link is interesting for all of maybe 5 seconds... And to Me quite useless...

Vic, that is not the point. You buy online and that is the point.

Well I just buy from whoever sells whatever for the least, if that includes sales tax for CA, then I pay the sales taxes and shipping costs if that's the lowest total price, considering where I live, what I buy online may not be available nearby in Barstow and forget about Yermo, that's been a dead zone for retail and has been since before 2004 when I moved out here. If there is something that I want and it's available locally I buy it locally, Royal Purple 5w30 motor oil for the car costs less locally from O'Reilly Auto Parts than it would with shipping, even with tax. Online I usually restrict buying stuff(technical term, sorry) that isn't available at all locally or that is prohibitive for Me to buy locally, like Science Diet dry cat food, currently I could buy that for $22.62 online(w/tax) or I could possibly drive 50-60 miles each way and buy it from a store in nearby Victorville CA(the car gets 30 miles to the gallon and the price right now for 87 octane is $4.459 a gallon) and since My A/C does not work right that makes for a very hot dry trip just for a 7lb bag, plus the gas would cost Me $17.84 for the round trip and My income is not adequate now, plus Ryan would like to cut and cap My income by 26%(back to 2007 levels). Other items like DVD's or a usb 3.0 to 2.0 adapter cable or an EVGA power booster card are simply not available as their niche items, so their not carried locally or even within 100 miles of here. I buy whole eggs in powdered form online in a #10 can, that can't be found within 70 miles of here and being food is not taxable.

If I missed the point of what You're trying to say, I'm sorry, You might need to spell it out for Me...
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Message 1297029 - Posted: 20 Oct 2012, 0:45:59 UTC

Very tight. The US floats, and not a leek in sight ...
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Message 1297033 - Posted: 20 Oct 2012, 1:05:50 UTC - in response to Message 1296755.

maybe I should take a two week break. I'm tired.)


I'd rather you didn't. I may not agree with about 70% of what you say, and I may not like your long diatribes when you use 'stream of conscious' writing styles, I do enjoy seeing other people's perspectives. This forum would be boring if everyone agreed.


I agree with BlankOzzManFan! :)

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