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Sirius B
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Message 1298418 - Posted: 24 Oct 2012, 21:11:53 UTC

Oh dear, this government is going from bad to worse.....

Retired could work for their pension

The No 1 Lord Gerkin "suggested the government should use the pensions system to "incentivise" retired people."

Just what do you think they were doing all their lives? Playing tiddlywinks in the Commons?

This muppet deserves the name!


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Profile Gary CharpentierProject donor
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Message 1298425 - Posted: 24 Oct 2012, 22:33:14 UTC

gosh, someone actually saying you have to pay for it
that you can't steal it from your kids
such a crazy old man
doesn't he get Robin Hood?!!
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Sirius B
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Message 1298617 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 12:57:28 UTC - in response to Message 1298425.

gosh, someone actually saying you have to pay for it
that you can't steal it from your kids
such a crazy old man
doesn't he get Robin Hood?!!


They do pay for it......

N.I. Contributions

Knocks your comment for six then.
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Message 1298636 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 15:45:17 UTC - in response to Message 1298617.

They do pay for it......

Well that is 10%, where does the other 90% of the money come from?

Hint look for actuarial tables ...

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Sirius B
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Message 1298714 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 19:24:23 UTC - in response to Message 1298636.

Don't know where you got you figures from....

try this......

How much NI you pay
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Message 1298720 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 19:41:23 UTC - in response to Message 1298714.

How much will you collect? Who makes up the difference?

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Message 1298723 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 20:00:13 UTC - in response to Message 1298720.

How much will you collect? Who makes up the difference?

The Employee pays 12% and the Employer pays 13.2%. Thats the rates for "normal" workers.

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Message 1298747 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 21:19:04 UTC - in response to Message 1298723.

How much will you collect? Who makes up the difference?

The Employee pays 12% and the Employer pays 13.2%. Thats the rates for "normal" workers.

How much will you collect? NO ANSWER.

For you personally figure out your stipend. Grab a life expectancy table. Multiply your stipend by how long you will live on average. Did (will) you, and your employer pay that much in?

Who makes up the difference? The Taxpayer.

No wonder nearly every country is going bankrupt. People can't do simple math!

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Sirius B
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Message 1298749 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 21:24:26 UTC - in response to Message 1298747.

How much will you collect? Who makes up the difference?

The Employee pays 12% and the Employer pays 13.2%. Thats the rates for "normal" workers.

How much will you collect? NO ANSWER.

For you personally figure out your stipend. Grab a life expectancy table. Multiply your stipend by how long you will live on average. Did (will) you, and your employer pay that much in?

Who makes up the difference? The Taxpayer.

No wonder nearly every country is going bankrupt. People can't do simple math!


My "collection" will be zero!

I'll let you work that one out as you show that you're good with numbers!
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Message 1298756 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 21:33:12 UTC - in response to Message 1298749.

My, intentionally running away are we? Bully for you! Hope that strategy works for the rest of your life.

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Message 1298757 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 21:36:55 UTC - in response to Message 1298747.

How much will you collect? Who makes up the difference?

The Employee pays 12% and the Employer pays 13.2%. Thats the rates for "normal" workers.

How much will you collect? NO ANSWER.

For you personally figure out your stipend. Grab a life expectancy table. Multiply your stipend by how long you will live on average. Did (will) you, and your employer pay that much in?

Who makes up the difference? The Taxpayer.

No wonder nearly every country is going bankrupt. People can't do simple math!

How much will you collect? NO ANSWER. Didn't realise you had asked that, £107.45/week for single person, is the basic rate. You have to pay for minimum of 30 years.

But I do agree, the amount collected and the amount pay out, do not compute.
I and others realised this in the early 70's and is one reason why I did my own pension planning.

Sirius B
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Message 1298758 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 21:39:29 UTC - in response to Message 1298756.

My, intentionally running away are we? Bully for you! Hope that strategy works for the rest of your life.


Running away? WK answered for me. There are those of us out there who knew all this & made our own arrangements.

As my "collection" was zero, that should have told you something, but apparently, for one who knows numbers, it did not.....hmmnnn........
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Message 1298772 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 22:20:22 UTC - in response to Message 1298758.

My, intentionally running away are we? Bully for you! Hope that strategy works for the rest of your life.


Running away? WK answered for me. There are those of us out there who knew all this & made our own arrangements.

As my "collection" was zero, that should have told you something, but apparently, for one who knows numbers, it did not.....hmmnnn........

No I remember your post which started it, you however don't.

Something about making them work for it. WK has it right as does the person you tried to make a fool of. Each needs to pay for their own. You even say you did so for yourself.

Better have your meds adjusted.

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Message 1298778 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 22:38:00 UTC - in response to Message 1298772.

Wrong. Each generation is currently paying for the generation that precedes it. Unfortunately for many today, there will be no state pension for them as the cupboard is bare.

It's only been in recent times that the government have advertised nationally & encourage one to take out their own pension.

I was fortunate in that my employers pointed this out to all their employees & as far as I know, everyone did so.

The main problem is the government itself (& it could be said for all governments), is that if they ran the country like a proper business with NO or Little WASTE There would always be a surplus gaining interest.

However, that'll never happen, as those at the top would demand top dollar for their services, so the vicious circle continues.

And I'll lay odds that you'll come back on this saying "why shouldn't they?"

To circumvent that, I'll answer for you....

One can only eat one meal at a time
One can't only sleep in one bed at a time
Etc etc etc.

An indivdual, no matter what industry, earning Millions per annum is disgusting.
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Message 1298788 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 23:13:03 UTC - in response to Message 1298778.

Wrong. Each generation is currently paying for the generation that precedes it. Unfortunately for many today, there will be no state pension for them as the cupboard is bare.

That is precisely my point. Everyone needs to pay for themselves. But you must disagree with me because that is your nature.

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Sirius B
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Message 1298792 - Posted: 25 Oct 2012, 23:19:05 UTC - in response to Message 1298788.

Wrong. Each generation is currently paying for the generation that precedes it. Unfortunately for many today, there will be no state pension for them as the cupboard is bare.

That is precisely my point. Everyone needs to pay for themselves. But you must disagree with me because that is your nature.


Incorrect. I do so because you are always demanding the math as if we're accountants or economists.

Have you ever stopped to realise that there are many out there who don't care about accounts/economy, but just want to earn a decent living & pay what is required to the state, leaving the rest of their income to pay for the fatcats at the top of the public utility companies/banks/supermarkets, with any left over to support their children &/or savings.
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Message 1298850 - Posted: 26 Oct 2012, 4:09:47 UTC - in response to Message 1298792.

Incorrect. I do so because you are always demanding the math as if we're accountants or economists.

Economists can't do even simple math. But, if you can't even balance a check book, how do you expect for anyone to take you comments about money seriously? [pun not intended]

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Sirius B
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Message 1298916 - Posted: 26 Oct 2012, 9:07:49 UTC - in response to Message 1298850.

Incorrect. I do so because you are always demanding the math as if we're accountants or economists.

Economists can't do even simple math. But, if you can't even balance a check book, how do you expect for anyone to take you comments about money seriously? [pun not intended]


In that case, there is a quick way for the US to get its economy back on track... You & Bobby for Prez & VP.....one wants only facts according to law & the other does the math.

When you've done that pop over to Europe & sort theirs out. Job done!

Question for the maths guru.......

As there is no money in the kitty for future pension payouts & the government wanting everyone to buy their own, if the current generation does exactly that, what happens to the generation just retired as there is no money coming in to pay them? Let them die off quicker?

You seem to be giving the impression that you're in a well paid job with your own pension being paid by yourself & dislike your taxes going to those....shall we say..."less deserving"?
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Message 1298918 - Posted: 26 Oct 2012, 9:24:05 UTC
Last modified: 26 Oct 2012, 10:06:20 UTC

There is a bit of scaremongering at the moment about the State Pension being scrapped. This article suggests that this might happen in 50 years time. Scrapped The reason being that people are living longer and retiring earlier. To combat this the retiring age for a pension is being gradually raised, and people who wish to carry on working can do so and cant be sacked because of their age.

Many years ago most Company pension schemes "contracted out" of SERPS now S2P, and the employer would pay a reduced NI contribution with the rest going in the Company scheme. This was agreed by the Unions as a better deal for workers. Since then most final salary schemes have been closed to new entrants and the options now are Stakeholder pensions.

What of course makes the biggest difference of all is whether the pension of any kind is indexed linked. Not all private ones are, and the State Pension and other schemes have changed from RPI to CPI to save money. In cases of hardship the State will make up income to a GMP. I had to work for 44 years to get my full state pension, people now only have to pay in for 30 years. Be careful if you retire abroad, as your state pension may not be index linked, and probably neither your private one either, depending where you go. Pensions abroad

The only sensible way forward is for anyone working to see a financial advisor, who will work out what additional private pension anyone might need to take out, to ensure a reasonable standard of living upon your chosen retirement age. This will take into consideration your age now, and current expected pension rights plus the state payment. Most people will probably need to make additional arrangements, while they are working and can afford it.

The problem is the growing amount of people who say they can't or won't do that, and intend to rely on state handouts at retirement age. There are currently 4 people of working age supporting each pensioner in Britain, by 2035 this number is expected to fall to 2.5, and by 2050 to just 2. This Dependency Ratio as it is called is a serious problem for any government.

Sirius B
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Message 1298952 - Posted: 26 Oct 2012, 13:42:39 UTC - in response to Message 1298918.

Good post Chris. The problem today compared to the past is that pensions advisors do not go into depth as they used to.

I've had a few "horribus annulus" but even though more & more people are looking for "Value for money", they seem to be spending more than they used to over the last several years.

This is looking good & with the orders already received, will be looking to put a few AVC's (Additional Voluntary Contributions) in to make up for the minimum paid in over the last few years.

A good example of this is: -

How builder survived the recession

It highlights a very important point.....

"John Durtnell, the former chairman who ran the business for 40 years, says that unlike some of his rivals who have gone to the wall, he always put money aside in the good years."
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