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Message 1314736 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 18:04:58 UTC
Last modified: 13 Dec 2012, 18:10:51 UTC

As regards a gas powered electricity system, this should go ahead and the gas prices WILL DROP as seen by the US experience over the last 10 years

Not according to the latest quote from a government advisor it wont be. The
utilities have put their oar in here for cheap gas means less profit to them
hence less tax to the government. Clearly the government got things wrong here
when they stated that this was a cheap source of energy. What they meant to
say that it was a cheap source for the utilities but not for the customer in
the street. I had a hunch when I read this initial quote by the government
that they were only trying to get public support behind fracking. To this end
they tried to portray that the public would get access to cheap gas when
in actuality it only meant that the utilities would get it cheaply. It's
the usual rhetoric coming from government that we have become accustomed too.
Ted Heath started it when he said we were joining up to a Common Market when
all along he knew he was misleading the public by not telling them the whole
truth.
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Message 1314742 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 18:08:20 UTC - in response to Message 1314736.

Excellent reply & agree with.
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Message 1314746 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 18:13:38 UTC

But government advisers warn today that shale gas may be unlikely to bring down energy prices much in Britain.

Thanks Sirius, it's amazing how the above quote only comes out after the
government has backed fracking...who do they think they are fooling here!!

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Message 1314774 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 18:41:12 UTC

But government advisers warn today that shale gas may be unlikely to bring down energy prices much in Britain.

Maybe not as much as is currently being hoped, but certainly by a worthwhile amount in the long term.

The current exploration in Lancashire is an experiment that was halted amidst safety doubts. This has been addressed and is now resuming. Shale gas has helped transform the USA energy market, lowering gas and coal prices, and offers Britain, Europe's biggest gas user, a means of switching to greener energy while bolstering its falling natural gas production.

If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't, but we have to try.

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Message 1314781 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 18:51:18 UTC - in response to Message 1314774.
Last modified: 13 Dec 2012, 18:52:18 UTC

But government advisers warn today that shale gas may be unlikely to bring down energy prices much in Britain.

Maybe not as much as is currently being hoped, but certainly by a worthwhile amount in the long term.

The current exploration in Lancashire is an experiment that was halted amidst safety doubts. This has been addressed and is now resuming. Shale gas has helped transform the USA energy market, lowering gas and coal prices, and offers Britain, Europe's biggest gas user, a means of switching to greener energy while bolstering its falling natural gas production.

If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't, but we have to try.


From what I read on this fracking issue the UK could be sitting on at least
50 years of gas reserves here. Hopefully not to become another misleading
governmental quote. France and Germany have in place policies that don't
permit their utilities to explore fracking at the moment. I see the potential
for Europe to suck up our fracking gas cheaply then when run dry explore their
own and sell it to us as expensively as they do for their other energies.
The UK government would love this scenario for it would bring in valuable
foreign currency....just like they did with our oil. I know the game, seen it
all happen before.
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Message 1314782 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 18:53:48 UTC - in response to Message 1314781.

From what I read on this fracking issue the UK could be sitting on at least
50 years of gas reserves here. Hopefully not to become another misleading
governmental quote. France and Germany have in place policies that don't
permit their utilities to explore fracking at the moment. I see the potential
for Europe to suck up our fracking gas cheaply then when run dry explore their
own and sell it to us as expensively as they do for their other energies.
The UK government would love this scenario for it would bring in valuable
foreign currency....just like they did with our oil. I know the game, seen it
all happen before.


Totally agree. The main cause of that was & still is, too many "Sir Humphrey's" getting involved so that they can see their names go down in the history books!
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Message 1314786 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 18:57:20 UTC

Yes Sirius, really some of us aren't so wet behind the ears as our government
would wish us to be.


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Message 1314809 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 19:27:37 UTC

And some of us aren't so wet behind the ears here either.

From what I read on this fracking issue the UK could be sitting on at least 50 years of gas reserves here

Which is exactly why we are carrying out an experimental drilling to see if it can be safely and economically extracted.

France and Germany have in place policies that don't permit their utilities to explore fracking at the moment.

Yes, they as per usual, are sitting back and letting the UK do all the hard work before they jump in.

I see the potential for Europe to suck up our fracking gas cheaply then when run dry explore their own and sell it to us as expensively as they do for their other energies.

And what makes you think we would sell gas that we need abroad? Apart from which if there is 50 years supply there, that scenario is so far in the future as to be completely indeterminable. We could have two world wars in the next 50 years. We do have to be a little realistic here.

Have you two got a long piece of string and two tin cans? You both seem to pop up within minutes of each other.....

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Message 1314824 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 19:48:54 UTC - in response to Message 1314809.


Have you two got a long piece of string and two tin cans? You both seem to pop up within minutes of each other.....


Darn it, rumbled already...ah well, just have to create another account........
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Message 1314888 - Posted: 13 Dec 2012, 22:22:03 UTC
Last modified: 13 Dec 2012, 22:23:44 UTC

And what makes you think we would sell gas that we need abroad? Apart from which if there is 50 years supply there, that scenario is so far in the future as to be completely indeterminable. We could have two world wars in the next 50 years. We do have to be a little realistic here.

Humpy....you know why.....the same reason our Maggie got the North Sea oil
companies to maximise their output......to export for valuable foreign currency.....it is documented.
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Message 1314943 - Posted: 14 Dec 2012, 0:14:09 UTC - in response to Message 1313637.

Good old Mail, doom and gloom headlines sell more newspapers. They really are a miserable bunch of beggars.


Gordon Bennett! Another good reply....although......

...Thanks for confirming that the muppets in charge are also miserable buggers as the Daily Toerag only published the "official" figures released by those very same muppets..... :)



...then again, no wonder the papers get their info wrong......

Office of National Statistics under fire
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Message 1314979 - Posted: 14 Dec 2012, 1:55:01 UTC

This is an old market -

The UK has 300 years of coal used at the rate we did during the 1970s. To make it viable again, research in to underground coal gasification is needed. A project I believe is quietly being done.

There is a similar story over shale gas reserves .... assuming it was fracked, released and used at the UK's current gas use, then the UK has well over 100 years of reserves at a 10% extraction rate. Shale gas extraction is likely to peak at up to 30% of the agreed reserves. Which is why the Greens and others are so concerned over a dash for gas, rather than building expensive and inefficient wind turbines.

I still think the gas price will drop, but it will take 10 years, and commercial pressures and Government greed for revenues may well reduce the size of the price reduction.
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Message 1315014 - Posted: 14 Dec 2012, 5:51:12 UTC

Total Chaos


MPs dismayed by 'total chaos' of £42m lost in translation

Outsourcing of courts' interpreter service was 'an object lesson in how not to do it'

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Message 1315061 - Posted: 14 Dec 2012, 11:25:40 UTC
Last modified: 14 Dec 2012, 11:27:31 UTC

There is a bit of a "dash for gas" scenario at the moment because North sea reserves are running out, and Russia's supply to Europe is politically unstable.

Vladimir Putin inaugurated the second line of the Nord Stream natural gas pipeline in October, nearly doubling the direct natural gas transit capacity between Russia and Germany to 55 billion cubic metres per year. The Nord Stream pipeline allows Moscow to bypass continental transit states through an underwater route. Running under the Baltic Sea, the pipeline specifically circumvents Ukraine, an important transit state for Europe-bound natural gas, that frequently is problematic for Russia when it tries to leave Moscow's sphere of influence and run closer to the West.

As North sea gas winds down we need to look at alternative supplies

Until recently, the UK could satiate its own need for natural gas, but unfortunately experts predict that our capacity to produce it is set for a sharp decline very soon, and over the last couple years the UK has been using interconnecting pipelines to import natural gas reserves from Norway, and the Netherlands, the two European countries which exceed our production capability. There is also a pipeline to Belgium

But the important point is not to put all your eggs in one basket. We need a co-ordinated energy mix, comprising gas, nuclear, CCS coal fired, and renewables such as wind and solar power, whilst also reducing our carbon footprint. Onshore and offshore wind has a small part to play but is falling victim to the NIMBY's. Shale gas may be a useful addition to the mix, provided that it can be safely extracted, which is currently being trialled.

Energy supply by various means, is the key enabler to future energy security.

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Message 1315064 - Posted: 14 Dec 2012, 11:49:12 UTC

@John - The National Coal Board which became British Coal, shut down most of Britain's pits, either because they were exhausted, or had become uneconomic to operate. But with modern technology, coal is still mined at a number of deep pits in the Midlands and the North, and is extracted at several very large opencast pits in South Wales and elsewhere.

@WK - Agreed. When will people learn not to contract out public and other services, just because some clever dick accountant says you can save a couple of dollars.

@ Sirius - I agree on the dismal performance of the Office of National Statistics. But it is the responsibility of the media to fully research their facts and issue caveats where necessary. i.e. "According to ....". But they don't, they just forge ahead with lurid headlines to flog copy.

And BTW, if you had painted your tin cans in proper DPM camouflage I wouldn't have noticed them!

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Message 1315796 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 23:14:44 UTC

Chris

The Coal Board spent £250 million opening a pit at Asfordby, taking years to build shafs, etc. It was just coming on stream when the Coal Board started to shutdown the deep mines, as the reserves were costly to extract compared to imported coal and strip mining.

The Asfordby mine, outside Melton, was to access 15 foot thick seams right across the Vale of Belvoir, with reserves sufficient to 100 years mining.

Add other known, but unexploited, reserves, I stick to the original assertion we have several hundreds of years of reserves when using at @70 million tonnes per annum.
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Message 1315798 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 23:21:59 UTC

I accept your assertion John. But are these reserves you speak of, economic to extract compared to imported coal. If they are not, then the there is an obvious conclusion.

We have to be pragmatic.

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Message 1315801 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 23:35:06 UTC

Agreed Chris. That is why the subterranean gasification of coal reserves, as a project, could be positive. It seems to be capable of methane gasification of the coal, leaving all the nasty bits in the seam and extracted at 10% of the manual mining method.

However the long term savior will be when Tokamak is successful (hot fusion electricity)
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Message 1316461 - Posted: 17 Dec 2012, 17:47:25 UTC

As per request.

Good job too

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Message 1316544 - Posted: 17 Dec 2012, 20:59:57 UTC

Might not be an exact fit here but didn't want to start new thread.
I'm sure many of us already knew this,
'Useless, useless, useless'

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