I've already read the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. In fact, I still have my copy. What makes you think that none of us have actually read the Bible in the first place?

And the answer is, if ET wrote the Bible, I would be disheartened by the state of the Universe and the lack of intelligent out there.

Yes, i assume most, if not the majority, of people here will have a rough outline of the bible stories from their childhood. But that doesn't count! Children can't tell the difference!

I never read the bible until very recently. I have a vague recollection of the biblical stories from my early childhood, maybe i heard them in primary school or something, i don't really remember. Maybe my mother read them too me or something.

When your very young, less than about 13 years of age, you have no way of knowing if the information your are being taught in school or church is correct information. You just accept whatever they tell you. If they teach you that Casper the ghost created the universe, children just accept it, they don't know the difference. So if they taught you the bible stories, you had no way of making a proper judgement about the information while you were very young.

So the only way of knowing if the information was correct, is to re-read the information again when your an adult. When you re-read the information again with a mature educated mind, only then can you properly evaluate the information.

John.

So the only way of knowing if the information was correct, is to re-read the information again when your an adult. When you re-read the information again with a mature educated mind, only then can you properly evaluate the information.

I read it as recently as three years ago. The more educated I get, the more I get angry with what is in the Bible, especially the Old Testament. As someone else once put it, "The most damning evidence of the Bible is reading the Bible itself". This person recommended anyone who was interested to read the Bible for themselves to know exactly messed up it is. I fully recommend the same, as I agree with you that people most often are introduced to religion through their upbringing, never knowing to question what they're told and never knowing the full story.

One caveat is that I suggest that no one be allowed to read it with a specific interpretation, but to interpret for themselves what they think it means. Most people, if they read the Bible, would become horrified by what they read, just like I was.

like the rape pillaging and genocide that occurred in the name of god. Sounds shockingly familar to modern times. It seems the more things change the more they stay the same

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

like the rape pillaging and genocide that occurred in the name of god. Sounds shockingly familar to modern times. It seems the more things change the more they stay the same

Exactly, so it doesn't say much for the bible then does it?

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like the rape pillaging and genocide that occurred in the name of god. Sounds shockingly familar to modern times. It seems the more things change the more they stay the same

Exactly, so it doesn't say much for the bible then does it?

It really makes me wonder why anyone worships it in the first place. You can add incest, sodomy, and rule by fear and intimidation to the content. God creating horrific acts, like torturing Joeb, killing his family just to get a rise out of him. Any modern person would be given a death sentence for a tiny fraction of what God is said to have done.

Steve

Edit: God even had to torture and kill his own son just to make a point, that in the long run changed nothing.

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

like the rape pillaging and genocide that occurred in the name of god. Sounds shockingly familar to modern times. It seems the more things change the more they stay the same

Exactly, so it doesn't say much for the bible then does it?

It really makes me wonder why anyone worships it in the first place. You can add incest, sodomy, and rule by fear and intimidation to the content. God creating horrific acts, like torturing Joeb, killing his family just to get a rise out of him. Any modern person would be given a death sentence for a tiny fraction of what God is said to have done.

Steve

Edit: God even had to torture and kill his own son just to make a point, that in the long run changed nothing.

[ETA]Encouraging[/ETA] Cannibalism is my favorite.

[ETA]Matthew 26:26 “Take, eat, this is my body.” ... 26:27 - 26:28 “Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood”[/ETA]

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

I agree with almost everything said here. The bible is a violent book. Many of the stories are not pretty. The bible is very graphic.

Look i think it was Ancient Aliens TV show suggesting that the book of Ezekiel described a UFO that started me reading the bible again. I never would have read it otherwise. But the book of Ezekiel really does sound like some type of UFO. And so do many of the other bible stories, they sound like ET encounters. All the bible stories start to make sense if this guy called "God" is not God, but a human scientist "playing God" with the people down in the middle east.

John.

I agree with almost everything said here. The bible is a violent book. Many of the stories are not pretty. The bible is very graphic.

Look i think it was Ancient Aliens TV show suggesting that the book of Ezekiel described a UFO that started me reading the bible again. I never would have read it otherwise. But the book of Ezekiel really does sound like some type of UFO. And so do many of the other bible stories, they sound like ET encounters. All the bible stories start to make sense if this guy called "God" is not God, but a human scientist "playing God" with the people down in the middle east.

John.

There have been many, many religions that are completely different over a very long time, and different continents. Polytheism vs monotheism. Each with a completely different view, and each ready to kill to defend their beliefs. None of them stand up to any serious scrutiny.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

I disagree. I think suggesting that aliens are the basis of the stories of the Bible make even less sense. Sure, you could take pieces of the book and interpret them to sound like it was ancient aliens, but there are so many holes in that theory that it just doesn't hold water. You can keep forcing the stories to make sense by picking and choosing what you want to support your theory, but this is the exact opposite of science, which is to let the data bring you to the conclusion.

like the rape pillaging and genocide that occurred in the name of god. Sounds shockingly familar to modern times. It seems the more things change the more they stay the same

Exactly, so it doesn't say much for the bible then does it?

It really makes me wonder why anyone worships it in the first place. You can add incest, sodomy, and rule by fear and intimidation to the content. God creating horrific acts, like torturing Joeb, killing his family just to get a rise out of him. Any modern person would be given a death sentence for a tiny fraction of what God is said to have done.

Steve

Edit: God even had to torture and kill his own son just to make a point, that in the long run changed nothing.

When you go on like this, you'll think you can add just about anything.
Where did you find in The Bible that sodomy is ok? I suspect you found no such thing, not even a change in opinion (what to punish for, and what is a suitable punishment may likely have changed in other cases).
I mean, you know the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, don't you?
You do realize the people of Sodom were being punished for sodomy, do you not?
Then again, Guy will wonder in here and accuse the NARW and LGBTs of thinking sodomy is a-ok.
Last: it? So, you have the mistaken impression that people are worshiping the book? Certainly, your "it" follows the last proper noun in the quote just above your opening sentence.
Of the things stated here today, I find myself most closely aligned to OzzFan, at least with regards to the Old Testament, much as he also finds the most horrifying things there.

+1.

If the bible was written by or about aliens, surely it would have been more coherent than what it is. Aliens travelling to our solar system would be intelligent enough in not making their "book" too obscure!

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like the rape pillaging and genocide that occurred in the name of god. Sounds shockingly familar to modern times. It seems the more things change the more they stay the same

Exactly, so it doesn't say much for the bible then does it?

It really makes me wonder why anyone worships it in the first place. You can add incest, sodomy, and rule by fear and intimidation to the content. God creating horrific acts, like torturing Joeb, killing his family just to get a rise out of him. Any modern person would be given a death sentence for a tiny fraction of what God is said to have done.

Steve

Edit: God even had to torture and kill his own son just to make a point, that in the long run changed nothing.

When you go on like this, you'll think you can add just about anything.
Where did you find in The Bible that sodomy is ok? I suspect you found no such thing, not even a change in opinion (what to punish for, and what is a suitable punishment may likely have changed in other cases).
I mean, you know the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, don't you?
You do realize the people of Sodom were being punished for sodomy, do you not?
Then again, Guy will wonder in here and accuse the NARW and LGBTs of thinking sodomy is a-ok.
Last: it? So, you have the mistaken impression that people are worshiping the book? Certainly, your "it" follows the last proper noun in the quote just above your opening sentence.
Of the things stated here today, I find myself most closely aligned to OzzFan, at least with regards to the Old Testament, much as he also finds the most horrifying things there.

I'm not sayinbg the bible said anything is OK, only that it is mentioned, and part of the story. No, I also did not mean they are worshipping the book, only what it stands for. My wording was not as accurate as I had wished.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

I disagree. I think suggesting that aliens are the basis of the stories of the Bible make even less sense. Sure, you could take pieces of the book and interpret them to sound like it was ancient aliens, but there are so many holes in that theory that it just doesn't hold water. You can keep forcing the stories to make sense by picking and choosing what you want to support your theory, but this is the exact opposite of science, which is to let the data bring you to the conclusion.

The "data" has led me to the conclusion that evolution theory is not the full story. And the "data" also tells me that the biblical story is also not the full picture.

As far as i'm concerned;
The Bible is not the complete story
and
Darwinian evolution theory is not the complete story

The "scientific community" don't have the full story. And neither do the "religious community".

The case is not closed until we thoroughly investigate ALL possibilities using the best science we have. And yes, that means using science to investigate biblical stories. Its the only way to know the truth.

John.

I agree with almost everything said here. The bible is a violent book. Many of the stories are not pretty. The bible is very graphic.

Look i think it was Ancient Aliens TV show suggesting that the book of Ezekiel described a UFO that started me reading the bible again. I never would have read it otherwise. But the book of Ezekiel really does sound like some type of UFO. And so do many of the other bible stories, they sound like ET encounters. All the bible stories start to make sense if this guy called "God" is not God, but a human scientist "playing God" with the people down in the middle east.

John.

What if "alien abduction" is an explicable part of human psychology, and the bible stories you refer to are little more than ancient examples of this human psychology?

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

The "data" has led me to the conclusion that evolution theory is not the full story.

Perhaps you've misunderstood the data, or you don't have all the pieces of information.

Darwinian evolution theory is not the complete story

Darwinian Evolution is the best approximation of the events to our current level of understanding. If there's something you don't understand, I'm sure there's plenty of people that can help you out with that.

The case is not closed until we thoroughly investigate ALL possibilities using the best science we have. And yes, that means using science to investigate biblical stories. Its the only way to know the truth.

Agreed. And you start narrowing down the possibilities by carefully examining all evidence until you can come to the best approximation. This is what Evolution Theory is.

Agreed. And you start narrowing down the possibilities by carefully examining all evidence until you can come to the best approximation. This is what Evolution Theory is.

+1

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

like the rape pillaging and genocide that occurred in the name of god. Sounds shockingly familar to modern times. It seems the more things change the more they stay the same

Exactly, so it doesn't say much for the bible then does it?

It really makes me wonder why anyone worships it in the first place. You can add incest, sodomy, and rule by fear and intimidation to the content. God creating horrific acts, like torturing Joeb, killing his family just to get a rise out of him. Any modern person would be given a death sentence for a tiny fraction of what God is said to have done.

Steve

Edit: God even had to torture and kill his own son just to make a point, that in the long run changed nothing.

When you go on like this, you'll think you can add just about anything.
Where did you find in The Bible that sodomy is ok? I suspect you found no such thing, not even a change in opinion (what to punish for, and what is a suitable punishment may likely have changed in other cases).
I mean, you know the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, don't you?
You do realize the people of Sodom were being punished for sodomy, do you not?
Then again, Guy will wonder in here and accuse the NARW and LGBTs of thinking sodomy is a-ok.
Last: it? So, you have the mistaken impression that people are worshiping the book? Certainly, your "it" follows the last proper noun in the quote just above your opening sentence.
Of the things stated here today, I find myself most closely aligned to OzzFan, at least with regards to the Old Testament, much as he also finds the most horrifying things there.

I'm not sayinbg the bible said anything is OK, only that it is mentioned, and part of the story. No, I also did not mean they are worshipping the book, only what it stands for. My wording was not as accurate as I had wished.

Steve

You can add incest, sodomy, and rule by fear and intimidation to the content. God creating horrific acts ...

Considering this and several of your other posts, you are not just mentioning, you are saying The Bible says many horrific things are ok.
Horrific things are indeed described in The Bible. Some, for lack of a better way of putting it, seem to be "horrific at the moment for the overall purpose of driving toward some good". Rather Machiavellian, now that I think about it.
In any case, I am sure you'll find things condemned in The Bible that you also condemn.

My actual intent was not to say they were OK, or not. Just very intense stories, that don't all line up with the common view of what it said about the Bible. I apologize if my wording was not precise enough.
To me the roots of both the old and new testament are highly questionable, as well as the information contained in them.

I do find it strange that a book with so many different versions, or any of the other religious defining books can be taken so seriously given what we know today. Some of the stories may be based on events, and others manufactured to get a particular persons view across.

Observation and mathmatics provide a testable, and correctable path. Religions are not supposed to evolve, but of course they have ever since they were invented. One thing I have said before is that there is no mechanism to keep people on a particular message. Hence tens of thousands of different versions of just Christianity.

Steve

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Warning, addicted to SETI crunching!
Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group.
GPUUG Website

I was wondering a little about what is the more important or most important thing when it comes to science as a whole?

Both astronomy, evolution and religion could be viewed as scientific fields, all of them warranting a scientific study.

Knowledge is based on known facts about given subjects and we are able to obtain such facts by means of knowledge as it is being learnt.

Because more information is obtained all the time in all these three subject field, we are seeing an evolutionary trend where our understanding or comprehension regarding certain things either quickly change in certain areas, more slowly when it comes to our comprehension of religion, perhaps.

Astronomy depends on the subject fields of mathematics and physics. Physics are dealing with everything from the largest to the smallest as well as those things in between (like time) which for some reason is hard for us to comprehend.

We are using the subject field of mathematics as well as the the other mentioned fields as well in order to put everything we know into scale and context and trying to both explain as well as understand everything we are dealing with within these subject fields.

Also we are attempting to merge three fundamental laws which are dealing with matter and particles into a fourth one which is dealing with energy. But gravity has always been associated with mass, not energy and time has been shown to come to a standstill at the point where mass is known to be having its largest concentration in the smallest area of space, namely the singularity.

If we were able to find other civilizations in the Milky Way or Universe, such achivements will not necessary explain or give us a solution about whether everything we know do exist when it comes to stars, galaxies and clusters of galaxies is having a divine creator. Religion alone is not supposed to give us an explanation regarding such a possible fact.

JG, your librarian is here.

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me@rescam.org