British Colonialism


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Profile Gary Charpentier
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Message 1292902 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 19:32:44 UTC

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/10/201210610143126968.html

Britain's brutal rule in Kenya on the docks

Decades-old struggle for justice over crackdown on Kenyan rebellion goes to court, opening retribution's door.

Nairobi, Kenya - The British colonial officers ordered the Kenyans off the crowded bus, hunting for insurgents who had brazenly challenged the empire's rule.

It was just before Christmas in 1957. Mbithuka Kimweli was travelling with his wife Naomi and their three young children. The officers demanded to know his involvement with the "Mau Mau" anti-colonial movement.

They separated Naomi from the children, blindfolded and beat her, then raped her with a glass bottle. Nearby, they castrated her husband with a pair of pliers.

"I denied any knowledge of the Mau Mau, yet they destroyed me," Mbithuka Kimweli says.

The abuses were part of a systematic campaign of torture conducted by the British to suppress the Mau Mau uprising in the 1950s and early '60s. The anti-British group had launched a guerrilla war against British settlers and Kenyan loyalists from the forests of central Kenya.

The panicked colonial administration detained more than one million people, most of whom, like the Kimwelis, had nothing to do with Mau Mau. Some remained incarcerated for as long as 10 years.

According to the Kenya Human Rights Commission, about 90,000 people were executed, tortured, or maimed during the rebellion.

Naomi Kimweli did not think, as she lay for weeks in King George hospital in Nairobi, that the men who tortured her and her husband would ever be held accountable.

But 55 years later, justice will now be served. Justice Richard McCombe ruled Friday in London that the British government's Foreign and Common Wealth Office must answer for crimes committed more than half a century ago in Kenya.

In Nairobi, elderly Kenyans - many the victims of torture under British rule - waited anxiously at the Kenya Human Rights Commission for the verdict. George Morara, the commission's officer in charge of the case, received the call from London.

"Temeshinda kesi yetu!" Morara excitedly told the crowd in Kiswahili, a Swahili language. "We have won our case."

The elderly Mau Mau jumped and danced in age-defying ways.

Also closely following McCombe's decision were Indians, Malaysians, Cypriots, and Guyanese - others who lived and suffered under British rule. Cases have been filed across the former British empire's vast expanse seeking reparations for colonial-era abuses.


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Message 1292905 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 19:39:41 UTC
Last modified: 8 Oct 2012, 19:43:45 UTC

Don't forget these same self styled Mau Mau terrorists murdered, by machete, thousands of their own people (not Kikuyu tribe - tribes other than their own) and did the same to British settlers.

So, why are we accused of these suppression techniques when the disease was far far worse.
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Message 1292909 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 19:47:43 UTC - in response to Message 1292905.

Don't forget these same self styled Mau Mau terrorists murdered, by machete, thousands of their own people (not Kikuyu tribe - tribes other than their own) and did the same to British settlers.

So, why are we accused of these suppression techniques when the disease was far far worse.


Because the Brits were meant to be the upholders of law and order. "The others did worse things than us" is little consolation to the innocents mentioned in article quoted by Gary.
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Message 1292914 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 20:05:23 UTC

In the old days of Empiricism and Colonialism, we didn't always get it right. I would be the first to hold my hand up and admit that. But generally speaking areas under British rule were mostly better off that not.

Look at what has happened to most of Africa since we left them to it. Idi Amin, Mugabe ......

Perhaps when most of the map was pink, it was a better and safer place to be in....


Profile Gary Charpentier
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Message 1292918 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 20:13:47 UTC - in response to Message 1292905.

Don't forget these same self styled Mau Mau terrorists murdered, by machete, thousands of their own people

That is their own business ...
(not Kikuyu tribe - tribes other than their own) and did the same to British settlers.

The British settler; there to steal the land and all it has to produce from someone who owned it before by force of army. A thief. And it claims to be protecting the very people they are stealing from. Perhaps death is a bit strong sentence for thievery, but if there isn't a civil court system to try the thief ... seems like a reasonable punishment.

So, why are we accused of these suppression techniques when the disease was far far worse.

Such an admission of guilt. That rape and castration of the people you are there to protect are a valid method of protection. Perhaps it is time for Imperial Rome to invade the Britain again and rule it for a century or so.


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Message 1292924 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 20:35:42 UTC - in response to Message 1292918.

Don't forget these same self styled Mau Mau terrorists murdered, by machete, thousands of their own people

That is their own business ...
(not Kikuyu tribe - tribes other than their own) and did the same to British settlers.

The British settler; there to steal the land and all it has to produce from someone who owned it before by force of army. A thief. And it claims to be protecting the very people they are stealing from. Perhaps death is a bit strong sentence for thievery, but if there isn't a civil court system to try the thief ... seems like a reasonable punishment.

So, why are we accused of these suppression techniques when the disease was far far worse.

Such an admission of guilt. That rape and castration of the people you are there to protect are a valid method of protection. Perhaps it is time for Imperial Rome to invade the Britain again and rule it for a century or so.



I recall a little country called Vietnam. Were the "Briteesh" there?
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Profile Gary Charpentier
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Message 1292928 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 20:50:35 UTC - in response to Message 1292924.

Don't forget these same self styled Mau Mau terrorists murdered, by machete, thousands of their own people

That is their own business ...
(not Kikuyu tribe - tribes other than their own) and did the same to British settlers.

The British settler; there to steal the land and all it has to produce from someone who owned it before by force of army. A thief. And it claims to be protecting the very people they are stealing from. Perhaps death is a bit strong sentence for thievery, but if there isn't a civil court system to try the thief ... seems like a reasonable punishment.

So, why are we accused of these suppression techniques when the disease was far far worse.

Such an admission of guilt. That rape and castration of the people you are there to protect are a valid method of protection. Perhaps it is time for Imperial Rome to invade the Britain again and rule it for a century or so.



I recall a little country called Vietnam. Were the "Briteesh" there?

The French were. And a fine mess they made. Seems the Australians were there, British proxies? Then some idiots from a couple of different places decided to use Vietnam to prove how much better they were than the other. But I don't remember settlers in Vietnam after the French, nor the extraction of wealth.

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Message 1292932 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 20:53:17 UTC - in response to Message 1292928.
Last modified: 8 Oct 2012, 20:54:26 UTC

Don't forget these same self styled Mau Mau terrorists murdered, by machete, thousands of their own people

That is their own business ...
(not Kikuyu tribe - tribes other than their own) and did the same to British settlers.

The British settler; there to steal the land and all it has to produce from someone who owned it before by force of army. A thief. And it claims to be protecting the very people they are stealing from. Perhaps death is a bit strong sentence for thievery, but if there isn't a civil court system to try the thief ... seems like a reasonable punishment.

So, why are we accused of these suppression techniques when the disease was far far worse.

Such an admission of guilt. That rape and castration of the people you are there to protect are a valid method of protection. Perhaps it is time for Imperial Rome to invade the Britain again and rule it for a century or so.



I recall a little country called Vietnam. Were the "Briteesh" there?

The French were. And a fine mess they made. Seems the Australians were there, British proxies? Then some idiots from a couple of different places decided to use Vietnam to prove how much better they were than the other. But I don't remember settlers in Vietnam after the French, nor the extraction of wealth.



My Lai for starters.......

....followed by dousing your own troops with "Agent Orange".
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Message 1292942 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 21:12:59 UTC - in response to Message 1292932.

My Lai for starters.......

Didn't take 50+ years to admit there was a problem and the individual got his due. Seems like the Brits were following orders, so when is the Queen going to serve time for ordering it?

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Message 1292947 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 21:19:49 UTC

so when is the Queen going to serve time for ordering it?

You know better than that Gary. Her Majesty or any other monarch has no direct executive control over the UK armed forces. That is carried out by the Chief of the Defence Staff, and the heads of the various armed Services. They are directed by the Prime Minister of the day advised by COBRA.

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Message 1292954 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 21:26:09 UTC - in response to Message 1292942.

My Lai for starters.......

Didn't take 50+ years to admit there was a problem and the individual got his due. Seems like the Brits were following orders, so when is the Queen going to serve time for ordering it?


& Agent Orange?
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Message 1292975 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 22:38:02 UTC - in response to Message 1292954.

& Agent Orange?

What does friendly fire have to do with this?

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Profile Gary Charpentier
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Message 1292977 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 22:43:04 UTC - in response to Message 1292947.

so when is the Queen going to serve time for ordering it?

You know better than that Gary. Her Majesty or any other monarch has no direct executive control over the UK armed forces. That is carried out by the Chief of the Defence Staff, and the heads of the various armed Services. They are directed by the Prime Minister of the day advised by COBRA.

Yes, I know the Queen has no power today, but does she have the responsibility?

A person here wanted to join some things, just wanted him to think about joining things before he makes such statements again.

However there are people who ordered it. I wonder if they will ever be brought to justice?

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Message 1292981 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 23:04:50 UTC - in response to Message 1292977.

so when is the Queen going to serve time for ordering it?

You know better than that Gary. Her Majesty or any other monarch has no direct executive control over the UK armed forces. That is carried out by the Chief of the Defence Staff, and the heads of the various armed Services. They are directed by the Prime Minister of the day advised by COBRA.

Yes, I know the Queen has no power today, but does she have the responsibility?

A person here wanted to join some things, just wanted him to think about joining things before he makes such statements again.

However there are people who ordered it. I wonder if they will ever be brought to justice?


You may have conceded the point a little hastily. Rule of foreign dominions was under Governors or Governors-General. These appointments were (and continue to be) officially made by the Crown, and exercised Royal prerogative directly. These appointments also exercised control of armed forces deployed to their jurisdiction. Seems to me the British Monarch may have some fairly direct culpability.
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Message 1292985 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 23:13:05 UTC - in response to Message 1292975.

& Agent Orange?

What does friendly fire have to do with this?


Friendly Fire? Are you joking? Agent Orange was dropped throughout North Vietnam, so Americans had colonised the place then, had they?
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Message 1292991 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 23:32:45 UTC
Last modified: 8 Oct 2012, 23:34:04 UTC

I wonder if it's time now for Britain to seek retribution through the courts
regarding all those beastly things done to us over the years. Take Denmark to
court over their rape, pillage and murder of whole villages in Northern England.
The Norwegians too for the way the Vikings did exactly the same as the Danes
years earlier. The German Saxons too performed no better when they raided us and
not lets forget France. For we had a wretched time when those Normans invaded
us. I'd say also that it's perhaps time too for the USA to fully compensate the
American Indians for the wretchedness they suffered under the hands of the white Americans.
As for Kenya then if we can trace any surviving culprits then we'll
bring them too boot. Compensation for them, well for those who directly suffered
then I see no reason why not. As for the current Kenyan Government then I see no
reason why they should not recompense those who suffered under them post
Colonialism....a fat chance of that.
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Message 1292992 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 23:34:46 UTC - in response to Message 1292991.

Don't forget Oliver Cromwell..... :)
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Message 1292993 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 23:38:13 UTC - in response to Message 1292992.

Don't forget Oliver Cromwell..... :)

....yes and the Irish too, they have claims of retribution against Oli'.


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Message 1292997 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 23:51:29 UTC

How far back into whatever assumed 'history' do you wish to go? A history written by 'which side'?

Note that with an exponential increase in the world's grievances as you delve further into history, you have a jihadist's dream of perpetual conflict generating ever more grievances... Can we not instead look forwards to a grievance-free future?

A little mutual understanding and positive apolitical education can go a long way to true cooperation and peace.


Also, can someone explain to Gary how to spell British please?


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Message 1292998 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 23:55:07 UTC - in response to Message 1292993.

Don't forget the Yanks..... after what Del-boy said on Letterman "We interfered in your politics 200 years ago when we sailed up the river & burnt down the White House".

There you go, another claim against the British government as the troops were under orders from the crown.

But should any Yank take that up, we'll counter sue for the loss of life & damage to our economy when The Yankee government coerced its ally to illegally invade Iraq under the pretence of Weapons of Mass Destruction....

Hows that for joining things?
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