Black Holes part 2

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Profile tullio
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Message 1718517 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 9:25:11 UTC - in response to Message 1718498.  
Last modified: 26 Aug 2015, 9:25:34 UTC

The traditional role for the Italian woman was like the German one: Kirche, Kuche und Kinder. Now they are flying military jets, like Samantha, a captain in the Italian Air Force, managing many thousands of scientists at CERN like Fabiola and proposing new theories, like Laura. Only the Catholic Church is still blind to this new role for Italian women.
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Message 1718525 - Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 9:48:44 UTC - in response to Message 1718512.  
Last modified: 26 Aug 2015, 9:49:04 UTC

who prefers writing books that nobody reads

I too read Roger Penrose. He is really the spokesman for Hawking. When Hawking could still utter sounds Roger would "translate" for him during his lectures. I wonder: has Hawking proposed any theories that have been proven ? Do any of these wormhole, portals, leaking black holes and multi-verse theories have the ability to be falsified via experiment.


Obviously not. Nor do any philosophical theories.

As for the information being destroyed---are we back into semantics and Schrodinger's cat type of speculation. If the information is "still there" but cannot be recovered does it still "exist" or has it been "destroyed". If it is there but no human can read it --what is it's state then. Has it been transformed as with energy which truly cannot be created or destroyed only transformed.


The 'Aether' theory could shed some light on the above inquiry in my opinion.
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Message 1720269 - Posted: 30 Aug 2015, 13:12:39 UTC
Last modified: 30 Aug 2015, 13:30:27 UTC

Black holes don't actually swallow and destroy physical information, according to an idea proposed the other day by Stephen Hawking at the Hawking Radiation conference being held at KTH Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm. Instead, they store it in a two-dimensional hologram.
https://www.kth.se/en/aktuellt/nyheter/hawking-offers-new-solution-to-black-hole-mystery-1.586546

Gerard 't Hooft, Leonard Suskind and others also has this idea.
UNC Physicist Laura Mersini-Houghton was instrumental in assembling 32 of the world's leading physicists to tackle the problem, which stems from contradications between quantum mechanics and general relativity.

Already in 1783 wrote the English clergyman John Michell in an article about dark stars, which were so large and heavy that light can not manage to get out, and suggested that there could be many such in the universe.

Since then physicists discovered that light was a wave, and thought that it could be affected by gravity. The ideas about dark stars were therefore buried up until Albert Einstein formulated the theory of relativity. But it was not until around 1960 that black holes won great support among scientists.

The American physicist John Wheeler is usually considered to be the one who coined the name black holes, but the book shows Bengt Gustafsson it was another American, Robert Dicke, who is the real author. He took the name from a terrible prison, the black hole of Calcutta, a four times five meters large cell in which 146 British soldiers were detained one night in June 1756. Almost all choked to death.
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Message 1720288 - Posted: 30 Aug 2015, 14:36:12 UTC - in response to Message 1718512.  

As for the information being destroyed---are we back into semantics and Schrodinger's cat type of speculation. If the information is "still there" but cannot be recovered does it still "exist" or has it been "destroyed". If it is there but no human can read it --what is it's state then. Has it been transformed as with energy which truly cannot be created or destroyed only transformed.

Physicists believe everything disappears into the black hole, leaving the four-dimensional mark in the so-called space-time - a way of looking at space, with time as the fourth dimension - around. The information is retained, but in a very esoteric form.

- It's like burning an encyclopedia. Everything is left in ashes, but it is difficult to read, says Stephen Hawking.

He and his colleagues call it imprints of gravitational charges. They let the black holes an additional property. Stephen Hawking joins now the scientists who want to preserve quantum mechanics and modify general relativity.
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Message 1726137 - Posted: 16 Sep 2015, 6:04:02 UTC

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Message 1727961 - Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 22:32:51 UTC - in response to Message 1726137.  

Nothing to worry about now.

Flickering Quasar May Hold Black Holes on a Collision Course

At the heart of a galaxy 3.5 billion light-years away, a black hole may be careening at an insane speed around another one 10 times its size. With less than the length of our solar system separating them, this possible binary black hole system looks to be the closest pair ever spotted, suggesting the two black holes might be on a collision course that would unleash ripples throughout the fabric of spacetime and help researchers understand how galaxies combine.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flickering-quasar-may-hold-black-holes-on-a-collision-course/
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Message 1727962 - Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 22:35:09 UTC - in response to Message 1727961.  

Astronomers identify a new mid-sized black hole

Nearly all black holes come in one of two sizes: stellar mass black holes that weigh up to a few dozen times the mass of our Sun or supermassive black holes ranging from a million to several billion times the Sun's mass. Astronomers believe that medium-sized black holes between these two extremes exist, but evidence has been hard to come by, with roughly a half-dozen candidates described so far.

A team led by astronomers at the University of Maryland (UMD) and NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center has found evidence for a new intermediate-mass black hole about 5,000 times the mass of the Sun. The discovery adds one more candidate to the list of potential medium-sized black holes, while strengthening the case that these objects do exist.

http://www.astronomy.com/news/2015/09/astronomers-identify-a-new-mid-sized-black-hole
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Message 1727966 - Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 22:47:12 UTC

Thanx Lynn, 2 good reads, today you've been on a roll with black holes.
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Message 1727967 - Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 22:51:05 UTC - in response to Message 1320979.  

You cannot physically "touch" a hologram, they are projections.


Perception is reality...if we think we are touching it, we are.


There is no spoon...
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Message 1727969 - Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 22:58:42 UTC - in response to Message 1727966.  

Thanx Lynn, 2 good reads, today you've been on a roll with black holes.


betreger, your welcome!
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Message 1727973 - Posted: 22 Sep 2015, 23:51:02 UTC

I have a question for anybody. On the Nova episode "Monster of The Milky Way"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/monster-milky-way.html
there is a video which actually shows a star being slingshot around the beastie. It's impressive, and it got me to thinking - how much speed could you acquire if you could plot a course from one gravity assist to another indefinitely? I imagine that at some point you'd be going too fast to get much, but you'd still get some, no?
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Message 1728036 - Posted: 23 Sep 2015, 4:25:03 UTC - in response to Message 1727973.  

I have a question for anybody. On the Nova episode "Monster of The Milky Way"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/monster-milky-way.html
there is a video which actually shows a star being slingshot around the beastie. It's impressive, and it got me to thinking - how much speed could you acquire if you could plot a course from one gravity assist to another indefinitely? I imagine that at some point you'd be going too fast to get much, but you'd still get some, no?

Ah, gravity assist. Well, you obviously can't go faster than c. But for a gravity assist to work you transfer energy from the assisting body to your own. If the assisting body is stationary, that can't happen. You fall in and gain speed, but on the trip out you lose exactly what you gained.

For gravity assist to work the assisting body has to be in orbit around something else. You approach from behind and because you do you spend more time falling in than when you leave. So you transfer energy from the assisting body to yourself because of the time difference spent falling in verses climbing away.

I can hardly imagine how chaotic the orbits would be for particles falling in to a close binary black hole system.
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Message 1728066 - Posted: 23 Sep 2015, 6:40:29 UTC - in response to Message 1728036.  

I have a question for anybody. On the Nova episode "Monster of The Milky Way"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/monster-milky-way.html
there is a video which actually shows a star being slingshot around the beastie. It's impressive, and it got me to thinking - how much speed could you acquire if you could plot a course from one gravity assist to another indefinitely? I imagine that at some point you'd be going too fast to get much, but you'd still get some, no?

Ah, gravity assist. Well, you obviously can't go faster than c. But for a gravity assist to work you transfer energy from the assisting body to your own. If the assisting body is stationary, that can't happen. You fall in and gain speed, but on the trip out you lose exactly what you gained.

For gravity assist to work the assisting body has to be in orbit around something else. You approach from behind and because you do you spend more time falling in than when you leave. So you transfer energy from the assisting body to yourself because of the time difference spent falling in verses climbing away.

I can hardly imagine how chaotic the orbits would be for particles falling in to a close binary black hole system.

Thank you for clarifying. I knew it had to be obvious. I do get that anything that gets that close to a black hole isn't going anywhere else for long - I was thinking of the kind of assist we use locally for craft.
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Message 1728071 - Posted: 23 Sep 2015, 7:21:59 UTC - in response to Message 1727961.  

Nothing to worry about now.

Flickering Quasar May Hold Black Holes on a Collision Course

At the heart of a galaxy 3.5 billion light-years away, a black hole may be careening at an insane speed around another one 10 times its size. With less than the length of our solar system separating them, this possible binary black hole system looks to be the closest pair ever spotted, suggesting the two black holes might be on a collision course that would unleash ripples throughout the fabric of spacetime and help researchers understand how galaxies combine.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flickering-quasar-may-hold-black-holes-on-a-collision-course/

imagine a energy released from that collision...would like to hear more about it...maybe some estimate about collision time?
;)


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Message 1728075 - Posted: 23 Sep 2015, 7:28:33 UTC - in response to Message 1727973.  
Last modified: 23 Sep 2015, 7:29:01 UTC

I have a question for anybody. On the Nova episode "Monster of The Milky Way"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/monster-milky-way.html
there is a video which actually shows a star being slingshot around the beastie. It's impressive, and it got me to thinking - how much speed could you acquire if you could plot a course from one gravity assist to another indefinitely? I imagine that at some point you'd be going too fast to get much, but you'd still get some, no?

Han Solo: "It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs."
but lets not go into SF...

what u get is a Gravity influence by TIME spent above Event horizon & in Gravity influence...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity#/media/File:GPB_circling_earth.jpg

if u go too fast, not much influence on the exit vector there is!
if u go slow, u might fall into Event horizon!

so the trick is to go just "enough"... ;)


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Message 1728625 - Posted: 24 Sep 2015, 19:55:33 UTC - in response to Message 1728075.  

I have a question for anybody. On the Nova episode "Monster of The Milky Way"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/monster-milky-way.html
there is a video which actually shows a star being slingshot around the beastie. It's impressive, and it got me to thinking - how much speed could you acquire if you could plot a course from one gravity assist to another indefinitely? I imagine that at some point you'd be going too fast to get much, but you'd still get some, no?

Han Solo: "It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs."
but lets not go into SF...

what u get is a Gravity influence by TIME spent above Event horizon & in Gravity influence...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity#/media/File:GPB_circling_earth.jpg

if u go too fast, not much influence on the exit vector there is!
if u go slow, u might fall into Event horizon!

so the trick is to go just "enough"... ;)

I was actually thinking about how much speed you could gain if you started in a system with more planets than we have, aim yourself at another system and use it's planets, and so on.
I don't see galactic empires or Dyson spheres, but I do see civilizations having the time and resources to do the kind of long range science we can only dream about.
What they may do with black holes I can't imagine so I don't try.
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Message 1728752 - Posted: 25 Sep 2015, 8:30:41 UTC - in response to Message 1728625.  

I was actually thinking about how much speed you could gain if you started in a system with more planets than we have, aim yourself at another system and use it's planets, and so on.

well, plotting that trajectory is very difficult...a 1" of could mean a difference by several ° later...so it could mean a difference from going into empty space or hitting one of those planets...

look @ us...we haven't sent any probe to another system with all our 9 planets @ disposal! :(


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Message 1728775 - Posted: 25 Sep 2015, 11:11:06 UTC - in response to Message 1728752.  

I was actually thinking about how much speed you could gain if you started in a system with more planets than we have, aim yourself at another system and use it's planets, and so on.

well, plotting that trajectory is very difficult...a 1" of could mean a difference by several ° later...so it could mean a difference from going into empty space or hitting one of those planets...

look @ us...we haven't sent any probe to another system with all our 9 planets @ disposal! :(

Has anybody found another solar system with more than one exoplanet?
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Message 1728782 - Posted: 25 Sep 2015, 11:40:30 UTC - in response to Message 1728775.  

I was actually thinking about how much speed you could gain if you started in a system with more planets than we have, aim yourself at another system and use it's planets, and so on.

well, plotting that trajectory is very difficult...a 1" of could mean a difference by several ° later...so it could mean a difference from going into empty space or hitting one of those planets...

look @ us...we haven't sent any probe to another system with all our 9 planets @ disposal! :(

Has anybody found another solar system with more than one exoplanet?

yes!
;)


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Message 1728801 - Posted: 25 Sep 2015, 14:03:57 UTC - in response to Message 1728782.  

I was actually thinking about how much speed you could gain if you started in a system with more planets than we have, aim yourself at another system and use it's planets, and so on.

well, plotting that trajectory is very difficult...a 1" of could mean a difference by several ° later...so it could mean a difference from going into empty space or hitting one of those planets...
look @ us...we haven't sent any probe to another system with all our 9 planets @ disposal! :(

Has anybody found another solar system with more than one exoplanet?

yes!;)

That was a short answer:)
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