Black Holes part 2

Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Black Holes part 2

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Johnney Guinness Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3083 Credit: 2,408,061 RAC: 2,694	Message 1292648 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 2:18:51 UTC - in response to Message 1292641. Last modified: 8 Oct 2012, 2:18:59 UTC
	So why attack them only on this forum? Why not register with their forums & attack them directly? At least they can answer you there - they cannot here! Ahhhhh..... cos they don't have a forum or message boards where i can personally insult them! And cos this is where i hang out in my spare time to entertain myself. John.
	ID: 1292648 · Reply Quote

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 10265 Credit: 1,530,132 RAC: 264	Message 1292653 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 2:23:55 UTC - in response to Message 1292648.
	So why attack them only on this forum? Why not register with their forums & attack them directly? At least they can answer you there - they cannot here! Ahhhhh..... cos they don't have a forum or message boards where i can personally insult them! And cos this is where i hang out in my spare time to entertain myself. John. ....& keeping us entertained at the same time :) ____________
	ID: 1292653 · Reply Quote

betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 2126 Credit: 4,424,011 RAC: 7,853	Message 1292680 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 3:37:59 UTC - in response to Message 1292648.
	John, you reveal yourself. As I have previously stated you have a great sense of humor, and the people who try to rebut you don't realize your joke. I am amazed. ____________
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Michel448a Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 27 Oct 00 Posts: 1201 Credit: 2,891,635 RAC: 0	Message 1292736 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 7:52:05 UTC - in response to Message 1292461.
	Maybe they are a part of the "missing mass" euh... which 'missing mass' ?? all is there ! what is missing ? ____________
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Chris S Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 31147 Credit: 11,340,740 RAC: 20,740	Message 1292742 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 8:19:58 UTC Last modified: 8 Oct 2012, 8:22:30 UTC
	barycentre (plural barycentres) (mathematics, physics, astronomy) The point at the centre of a system; an average point, weighted according to mass or other attribute. The term is usually used in astronomy for the centre of mass about which a system rotates, for example, the moon and the earth rotate about a common point within the earth but not near the centre. Jupiter and the Sun rotate about a common point just outside the surface of the Sun. We think that a black hole is an item in space where the gravity is so intense that it can swallow up stars and stop light from escaping, therefore there is a lot of mass at it's centre. We think there is one at the centre of our own galaxy the Milkyway. This item may be technically called a barycentre by astronomers and scientists, it is also colloquially known by the public as a black hole. They are both one and the same thing (whatever they are) A barycentre IS a black hole in relation to galaxies Johnney!
	ID: 1292742 · Reply Quote

Johnney Guinness Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3083 Credit: 2,408,061 RAC: 2,694	Message 1292746 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 8:45:42 UTC - in response to Message 1292680.
	John, you reveal yourself. As I have previously stated you have a great sense of humor, and the people who try to rebut you don't realize your joke. I am amazed. betreger, Sometimes i do say things in a joking or sarcastic manner. But most of the stuff i post is not a joke. I'm very serious when i discuss black holes and my personal view that they don't exist. That is not a joke, i'm very serious about that! Its part of my physics research. I'm also very serious about the "old book" research i am carrying out. Thats not a joke either. I really am researching an "old book" or "old books" that have very serious implications for humanity. John.
	ID: 1292746 · Reply Quote

Johnney Guinness Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3083 Credit: 2,408,061 RAC: 2,694	Message 1292749 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 9:07:21 UTC - in response to Message 1292742. Last modified: 8 Oct 2012, 9:16:38 UTC
	We think that a black hole is an item in space where the gravity is so intense that it can swallow up stars and stop light from escaping, therefore there is a lot of mass at it's centre. We think there is one at the centre of our own galaxy the Milkyway. This item may be technically called a barycentre by astronomers and scientists, it is also colloquially known by the public as a black hole. They are both one and the same thing (whatever they are) A barycentre IS a black hole in relation to galaxies Johnney! Ohhhhhhh.... Chris! I have to stop you there! Your wrong!!! In Black hole theory, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING! Astronomers do NOT refer to black holes as Barycenters!! And theoretical Black holes are very very different to a Barycenter!! Do not confuse the two things Chris, they are very very different! A Barycenter is like a fulcrum in the law of the lever; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever#Law_of_the_lever In the Law of the Lever, a weight hangs on both sides of the Fulcrum. This balances the lever. So the fulcrum point is where the Mass of both weights rests. But the fulcrum itself does not have any mass, the mass is in the weights. A Barycenter acts in a similar fashion. Today, astronomers searching for exoplanets around other stars use the "wobble method" or the "Radial Velocity" to find the exoplanet. The Radial Velocity method shows you what a Barycenter really is. Watch this video and you will see a Barycenter; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BuwWtMygxU And no Chris, astronomers do NOT describe Black holes as Barycenters! I personally describe Black holes as Barycenters, its my theory. You have never heard it anywhere else but here, from me! A Barycenter completely contradicts current black hole theory! So i stand alone with this theory! You didn't hear it on the telly, you didn't read it on another website, you didn't read it in any book. You only heard it from ME! John.
	ID: 1292749 · Reply Quote

Chris S Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 31147 Credit: 11,340,740 RAC: 20,740	Message 1292753 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 9:41:32 UTC
	But the fulcrum itself does not have any mass, the mass is in the weights. A Barycenter acts in a similar fashion. So if the black hole you call a barycentre doesn't have any mass itself, how come it appears to swallow stars and light? A black hole is a region of spacetime where gravity prevents anything, including light, from escaping. The theory of general relativity predicts that a sufficiently compact mass will deform spacetime to form a black hole. Black holes of stellar mass are expected to form when very massive stars collapse at the end of their life cycle.
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Johnney Guinness Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3083 Credit: 2,408,061 RAC: 2,694	Message 1292770 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 11:16:12 UTC - in response to Message 1292753. Last modified: 8 Oct 2012, 11:39:26 UTC
	So if the black hole you call a barycentre doesn't have any mass itself, how come it appears to swallow stars and light? Thats the thing Chris, it doesn't swallow light, or stars, that is NOT what we "see". Be careful here with what information is REAL scientific data from telescopes, and information that is "theoretical". If the information is "theoretical", then it might or might not exist. In black hole theory, the black hole swallows light, or the light cannot get out. But Chris this has never been observed with a telescope, because you can't observe or measure it. Its just a theoretical assumption. Very dangerous to "assume" anything!! In reality, what we really see with telescopes, is a Barycenter with nothing in the dead centre. What we also see with telescopes is jets or beams of light being emitted from galactic centres. Right now today, our Milkyway's black hole is emitting very little, its quiet, because no star has fallen into it since they started watching it very closely about 20 years ago. So in reality, we see stars falling in and disappearing, so where do they go? They are ripped apart and the material from the star is violently smashed together and, instead of magically disappearing into nothing, its ALL converted to energy and emitted out as light, in the form of x-rays, gamma-rays and other light. In other words, what goes in, also comes out. Matter goes in, and pure energy comes out, ALL OF IT!! None of it magically goes missing anywhere! In my theory, you can measure everything!! In my theory nothing goes missing!! And no blind faith in Stephen Hawking's bad black hole mathematics is needed. Chris i will never get credit for discovering it cos i'm just some guy on a message board. But remember where you heard it first Chris! You heard it from me! On the internet information travels very fast, and my name will just get lost into the oblivion of information on the internet. But anyway, you will know Chris. But just so you know something else, i have left out one key piece of information - the mathametics. And the maths will trip up anyone that tries to latch onto the theory. Right now today, you should be able to discredit my Barycenter theory, if you were clever. John.
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bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 1962 Credit: 14,652,114 RAC: 2,989	Message 1292815 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 15:33:20 UTC - in response to Message 1292770. Last modified: 8 Oct 2012, 15:33:59 UTC
	Right now today, you should be able to discredit my Barycenter theory, if you were clever. John. Johnney, this paper provides all the math and observational data one needs to show the "Barycenter hypothesis" is an insufficient explanation. Clever? All one needed to do was follow the links Skildude provided earlier. The "theorists" provide their math and data, where's yours? ____________ I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...
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Johnney Guinness Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3083 Credit: 2,408,061 RAC: 2,694	Message 1292876 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 18:52:31 UTC - in response to Message 1292815.
	Right now today, you should be able to discredit my Barycenter theory, if you were clever. John. Johnney, this paper provides all the math and observational data one needs to show the "Barycenter hypothesis" is an insufficient explanation. Clever? All one needed to do was follow the links Skildude provided earlier. The "theorists" provide their math and data, where's yours? Geee Bobby, You really are clever. Would you ever go through that paper for me and extract the part that discredits my theory. I'm not clever like you, i couldn't read all that stuff. John.
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bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 1962 Credit: 14,652,114 RAC: 2,989	Message 1292920 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 20:17:41 UTC - in response to Message 1292876.
	Right now today, you should be able to discredit my Barycenter theory, if you were clever. John. Johnney, this paper provides all the math and observational data one needs to show the "Barycenter hypothesis" is an insufficient explanation. Clever? All one needed to do was follow the links Skildude provided earlier. The "theorists" provide their math and data, where's yours? Geee Bobby, You really are clever. Would you ever go through that paper for me and extract the part that discredits my theory. I'm not clever like you, i couldn't read all that stuff. John. Sure you are, you've come up with a "theory" that shows it to be wrong, haven't you? ____________ I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...
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William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 2466 Credit: 1,172,234 RAC: 118	Message 1293053 - Posted: 9 Oct 2012, 2:43:29 UTC - in response to Message 1291871.
	Wikipedia page has the radius of the electron; well then light should not escape from it. Looks like a black hole or not ??
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ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 8270 Credit: 4,072,496 RAC: 374	Message 1293224 - Posted: 9 Oct 2012, 15:36:31 UTC - in response to Message 1292067.
	Odd, there's a wiki page on the subject. ... Thanks for that. That is a really good and interesting article, and some good physics conjectures for further thought. (For the 'religious' types: Please note the difference in Science between "conjecture" and "hypothesis" and "theory"... I'm using the scientific sense.) Also very good food for thought is how structure(s) develop as you move up the range of scales from the Planck length through to galactic and beyond... Keep searchin', Martin ____________ See new freedom: Mageia4 Linux Voice See & try out your OS Freedom! The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
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ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 8270 Credit: 4,072,496 RAC: 374	Message 1293225 - Posted: 9 Oct 2012, 15:37:51 UTC - in response to Message 1293053.
	Wikipedia page has the radius of the electron; well then light should not escape from it. Looks like a black hole or not ?? How you view the electron, in all respects, is an "interesting case"... ;-) Keep searchin', Martin ____________ See new freedom: Mageia4 Linux Voice See & try out your OS Freedom! The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
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ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 8270 Credit: 4,072,496 RAC: 374	Message 1293279 - Posted: 9 Oct 2012, 23:09:07 UTC
	And here's some interesting astronomy to watch: Stars spotted dancing superfast tango around black hole handbag 'Whoa, look at 'em go,' applaud excited boffins (Article chosen for the use of very down-to-earth language! ;-) ) If that's not what we describe and 'understand' as a "black hole", then what else does what evidence suggest? Keep searchin', Martin ____________ See new freedom: Mageia4 Linux Voice See & try out your OS Freedom! The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
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Michel448a Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 27 Oct 00 Posts: 1201 Credit: 2,891,635 RAC: 0	Message 1293383 - Posted: 10 Oct 2012, 4:26:48 UTC
	but why they show a picture showing ... telescopes ? and not really showing us real pictures of these ... stars ? :P ____________
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ML1 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 8270 Credit: 4,072,496 RAC: 374	Message 1293419 - Posted: 10 Oct 2012, 9:30:10 UTC - in response to Message 1293383.
	but why they show a picture showing ... telescopes ? and not really showing us real pictures of these ... stars ? :P That's only due to the media dumbing-down the story for their monosyllabic childlike readers to follow. It also helps the journalists throw the article together more quickly... Maybe there was such journalistic haste that they got the wrong end of the telescope? Or that particular picture was conveniently 'to hand'? Or there was 'artistic' license in that the telescopes plus sexy-laser "looked more pretty" and "eye catching" than the real news. All goes with the deliberately ambiguous/misleading headlines... You want information, or do you want news entertainment?... Such is the dumb news... And such is my rant! :-( Between the news media's usually negative portrayal and the unaware politicians, it's amazing we have any Science at all! And yet our modern society utterly depends upon Science. But that's for another thread... Keep searchin', Martin ____________ See new freedom: Mageia4 Linux Voice See & try out your OS Freedom! The Future is what We make IT (GPLv3)
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SciManStev Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 20 Jun 99 Posts: 4792 Credit: 79,796,670 RAC: 35,805	Message 1301106 - Posted: 1 Nov 2012, 23:22:55 UTC
	This is another interesting article about early stars and black holes. http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/01/scientists-measure-the-universes-first-starlight/?hpt=hp_c3 Steve ____________ Warning, addicted to SETI crunching! Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group. GPUUG Website
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Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 3875 Credit: 1,953,948 RAC: 1,140	Message 1301513 - Posted: 3 Nov 2012, 1:20:44 UTC - in response to Message 1293279.
	And here's some interesting astronomy to watch: Stars spotted dancing superfast tango around black hole handbag 'Whoa, look at 'em go,' applaud excited boffins (Article chosen for the use of very down-to-earth language! ;-) ) If that's not what we describe and 'understand' as a "black hole", then what else does what evidence suggest? Keep searchin', Martin Oh yes, ML; that's going to produce some very interesting results, just a shame that we will have to wait the 11 odd years though....I bet Einstein ends up being proved right. ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message boards : Science (non-SETI) : Black Holes part 2