Seti and Windows8


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Number crunching : Seti and Windows8

Author Message
clad
Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 12
Posts: 7
Credit: 632,522
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1289125 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 2:54:47 UTC

Hello,
I'm not sure where to post this or even if it would be looked into.

I have a machine i'm running the windows8-dev branch on.
It all seems to work except for the "Use no more than -% of the processor"

It does not matter what that this is set to, it will still spike to 100%. Sometimes when it spikes i hear a pop from my computer case. (Happens randomly)
Will this be fixed, or am i over looking a different setting for windows8?

I have Seti running on Vista and Windows2003 also with no problems.
____________

Profile Wiggo
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 7331
Credit: 96,786,128
RAC: 67,394
Australia
Message 1289217 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 9:21:09 UTC - in response to Message 1289125.

What do you have the "Use no more than -% of the processor" set to?

Also, are the spikes occurring while the GPU is loading?

Cheers.
____________

clad
Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 12
Posts: 7
Credit: 632,522
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1289239 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 10:45:54 UTC
Last modified: 29 Sep 2012, 11:12:58 UTC

Thank you for the help.
I ORIGINALLY set the "Use no more than -% of the processor" to 20% to 30% when i'm using the computer, then 40-50% when i go to bed until i noticed the spikes.
I play some online games also, but when i play those, i must set "Do work after idle (0-RUN ALWAYS) minutes" to anything to cause it to pause.

When you say GPU loading, are you talking about when the screensaver kicks in?
If so, i don't think it's related. The spikes happen even if i'm using the computer or not.

Edited:
I just looked threw the Messages in my Bonic Tasks, and seen
"suspend work if non-BONIC CPU load exceeds 70%"
Since i have noticed the spikes(about a week), i leave the "Use no more than -% of the processor" to 20%.
____________

Profile BilBg
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 27 May 07
Posts: 2795
Credit: 6,315,386
RAC: 7,532
Bulgaria
Message 1289267 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 12:46:35 UTC - in response to Message 1289239.

I ORIGINALLY set the "Use no more than -% of the processor" to 20% to 30% when i'm using the computer, then 40-50% when i go to bed until i noticed the spikes.

Explanation (by Ageless) why you (anybody) see spikes in CPU usage if you set "Use at most XX% of CPU time" to less than 100%
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=7881&nowrap=true#45807

(if you really set "use at most YY% of the processors" this will not cause spikes in CPU usage but instead will free some number of CPU cores from CPU apps/tasks)

If you do this because of temperature - see my post about "Use TThrottle" in the same (above) link.
TThrottle do not cause any spikes in CPU usage (regulates smoothly and only if the temperature is above what you set)


I play some online games also ...

If you restrict CPU usage because of lag in games:
- CPU tasks do not cause any lag (if you use "100% of CPU time" and "100% of the processors")
- only GPU apps/tasks (SETI@home Enhanced v6.10 (cuda_fermi)) can cause lag
so you better set "Do work after idle for X minutes" only for the GPU


When you say GPU loading, are you talking about when the screensaver kicks in?

No, it is about when GPU app/task (SETI@home Enhanced v6.10 (cuda_fermi)) is starting/loading in memory.


"Suspend work when non-BOINC CPU usage is above 70%"

Most people here set this to 0 (zero)
else app starts/stops many times (which may lead to errors and be the cause why you see 'spikes')


____________



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

Zapiao
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 29 Oct 01
Posts: 110
Credit: 122,278
RAC: 0
Portugal
Message 1289470 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 19:54:32 UTC - in response to Message 1289239.

Thank you for the help.
I ORIGINALLY set the "Use no more than -% of the processor" to 20% to 30% when i'm using the computer, then 40-50% when i go to bed
That it s not possilble to set. How do you do it ?

____________
By your command !!!

clad
Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 12
Posts: 7
Credit: 632,522
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1289551 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 1:19:26 UTC - in response to Message 1289470.
Last modified: 30 Sep 2012, 1:29:12 UTC

In the Bonic manager (Simple View), click Tools>>Computing preferences.
Its the 4th dropdown menu.

@BilBg
Would you have any idea why i would here the pop in my case?

Also as mentioned in my first post, i have 2 others running and i do not see the spikes like in the windows8.
____________

Zapiao
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 29 Oct 01
Posts: 110
Credit: 122,278
RAC: 0
Portugal
Message 1289690 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 11:22:31 UTC - in response to Message 1289551.
Last modified: 30 Sep 2012, 11:39:17 UTC

In the Bonic manager (Simple View), click Tools>>Computing preferences.
Its the 4th dropdown menu.

But you change to that % when you go to bed?
____________
By your command !!!

Profile HAL9000
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 99
Posts: 4429
Credit: 118,859,463
RAC: 138,933
United States
Message 1290032 - Posted: 1 Oct 2012, 13:04:56 UTC - in response to Message 1289690.

In the Bonic manager (Simple View), click Tools>>Computing preferences.
Its the 4th dropdown menu.

But you change to that % when you go to bed?

I would guess they open the setting and type the number into the GUI, or use boinccmd if the setting can be configured though it.
____________
SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours

Join the BP6/VP6 User Group today!

Zapiao
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 29 Oct 01
Posts: 110
Credit: 122,278
RAC: 0
Portugal
Message 1290178 - Posted: 1 Oct 2012, 19:53:56 UTC - in response to Message 1290032.

In the Bonic manager (Simple View), click Tools>>Computing preferences.
Its the 4th dropdown menu.

But you change to that % when you go to bed?

I would guess they open the setting and type the number into the GUI, or use boinccmd if the setting can be configured though it.

But this it s not possilble to set both at same time "Use no more than -% of the processor" to 20% to 30% when i'm using the computer, then 40-50% when i go to bed"
____________
By your command !!!

clad
Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 12
Posts: 7
Credit: 632,522
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1290294 - Posted: 2 Oct 2012, 4:24:06 UTC - in response to Message 1289690.
Last modified: 2 Oct 2012, 5:14:50 UTC

In the Bonic manager (Simple View), click Tools>>Computing preferences.
Its the 4th dropdown menu.

But you change to that % when you go to bed?


Sry for the late reply, i'm not getting any e-mail sent to me when a thread is replied to. i'm pretty sure i adjusted that in my forums settings.

Anyway,
Yes to your question.
On the computers i don't have to touch often, i basically leave those set.
On my gaming computer and my laptop i surf the web with, i change those if i am working on them.
I'm not understanding why you find that so hard to believe, unless i'm missing something.
I am new to this, so please don't think i'm being sarcastic.


Edit.
Forgot to mention the reason i can back to post. Duh..

I ORIGINALLY set the "Use no more than -% of the processor" to 20% to 30% when i'm using the computer, then 40-50% when i go to bed until i noticed the spikes.

Explanation (by Ageless) why you (anybody) see spikes in CPU usage if you set "Use at most XX% of CPU time" to less than 100%
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=7881&nowrap=true#45807

(if you really set "use at most YY% of the processors" this will not cause spikes in CPU usage but instead will free some number of CPU cores from CPU apps/tasks)

If you do this because of temperature - see my post about "Use TThrottle" in the same (above) link.
TThrottle do not cause any spikes in CPU usage (regulates smoothly and only if the temperature is above what you set)


I play some online games also ...

If you restrict CPU usage because of lag in games:
- CPU tasks do not cause any lag (if you use "100% of CPU time" and "100% of the processors")
- only GPU apps/tasks (SETI@home Enhanced v6.10 (cuda_fermi)) can cause lag
so you better set "Do work after idle for X minutes" only for the GPU


When you say GPU loading, are you talking about when the screensaver kicks in?

No, it is about when GPU app/task (SETI@home Enhanced v6.10 (cuda_fermi)) is starting/loading in memory.


"Suspend work when non-BOINC CPU usage is above 70%"

Most people here set this to 0 (zero)
else app starts/stops many times (which may lead to errors and be the cause why you see 'spikes')



I was going to break this down and reply to each 1 , but this issue i see effects this all basically.
For starters,
"Suspend work when non-BOINC CPU usage is above 70%"
Most people here set this to 0 (zero)

I do this sometimes on the windows8 machine. I use that feature to Pause while gaming.

What i have noticed which is different from my other machines is.
If i set "Use no more than -% of the processor" to 100%, the CPUs stay at 100%. It does not drop 1%.
If i set it for example 50%, it will jump from around 10% to around 75%. maybe a little more. it just constantly bounces up and down none stop.
It basically goes around 20% over what ever it's set to, with a spike randomly higher at times.
This is with nothing running but Seti and BonicTask, and the game platform called STEAM.
It doesn't matter if STEAM isn't running, but the spikes stop if Seti is stopped.

The only task running are 4 Milkyway
I read over the link you supplied. I really don't want to mess with Regedit.
____________

Profile BilBg
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 27 May 07
Posts: 2795
Credit: 6,315,386
RAC: 7,532
Bulgaria
Message 1290315 - Posted: 2 Oct 2012, 5:33:04 UTC - in response to Message 1290294.
Last modified: 2 Oct 2012, 5:56:55 UTC

If i set "Use no more than -% of the processor" to 100%, the CPUs stay at 100%. It does not drop 1%.

Normal. What bothers you with that?
(it will not affect games if you think so)


If i set it for example 50%, it will jump from around 10% to around 75%. maybe a little more. it just constantly bounces up and down none stop.
It basically goes around 20% over what ever it's set to, with a spike randomly higher at times.

Normal (with the way BOINC do this), explained in the link


I read over the link you supplied. I really don't want to mess with Regedit.

Where did you see Regedit??


Would you have any idea why I would hear the pop in my case?

Probably:
- Temperature changes (because CPU/GPU load changes) cause expand/shrink of the components.
Not good thing - better keep temperature 'constant' (slow/small changes) and not very high (15-20°C under the max allowed working temperature for CPU/GPU).
- If sound is like sparks - some component/cable/contact may be loose (when CPU/GPU load become high the electrical current increases, if contact is bad may cause sparks)
- Are you sure the sound is coming from inside the case? (switch off the speakers to test)


In the Bonic manager (Simple View), click Tools>>Computing preferences.
Its the 4th dropdown menu.

It was long time ago when I last looked at 'Simple View'.
The BOINC Simple View setting "Use no more than: XX% of the processor"
is the same as BOINC Advanced view "Use at most XX% of CPU time"
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Simple_View
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Advanced_view
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/wiki/Local_preferences


____________



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

clad
Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 12
Posts: 7
Credit: 632,522
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1290380 - Posted: 2 Oct 2012, 11:59:53 UTC
Last modified: 2 Oct 2012, 12:11:29 UTC

If that's not to your liking, then you can use the third party application Threadmaster. This can be set to a value and use that value in a sustained way.

When clicking on Threadmaster, in the instructions it says:
Configuration
ThreadMaster has no GUI interface, all configuration is done by using a well known tool "Regedit". Changing registry keys not described in this section, may cause serious problems. Use Registry Editor at your own risk. After any changes in the configuration please restart the ThreadMaster service for the changes to take effect.


If your saying that the issue i'm having with windows8 is normal, then how can i make it as stable as on the other OS systems? (None of my other machines act the way windows8 does)


Would you have any idea why I would hear the pop in my case?

Probably:
- Temperature changes (because CPU/GPU load changes) cause expand/shrink of the components.
Not good thing - better keep temperature 'constant' (slow/small changes) and not very high (15-20°C under the max allowed working temperature for CPU/GPU).
- If sound is like sparks - some component/cable/contact may be loose (when CPU/GPU load become high the electrical current increases, if contact is bad may cause sparks)
- Are you sure the sound is coming from inside the case? (switch off the speakers to test)

In the Windows8 machine, i have 2 hard drives.
I disconnect 1 to connect the other.
1 hard drive has windows8, the other has windows7.
The pop i hear is inside the case and only when i have the windows8 running. (NOT in the speakers)

Also, how many cores are running on Your install of Windows8 ?
____________

Profile BilBg
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 27 May 07
Posts: 2795
Credit: 6,315,386
RAC: 7,532
Bulgaria
Message 1290510 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 1:37:55 UTC - in response to Message 1290380.
Last modified: 3 Oct 2012, 1:42:23 UTC

When clicking on Threadmaster, in the instructions it says:
Configuration
ThreadMaster has no GUI interface, all configuration is done by using a well known tool "Regedit".

I don't use ThreadMaster (and never did), I also don't use the BOINC CPU Throttle mechanism ("Use no more than: XX% of the processor"/"Use at most XX% of CPU time"),
I use TThrottle (to be protected from overheating the CPU or GPU if e.g. fan stops)
I don't see why anyone will need "Use no more than: XX% of the processor" except for temperature/heating issues which TThrottle solves best in a smart way.
(so the question is: Why do (you think) you need "Use no more than: XX% of the processor" to be set lower than 100%?)


If your saying that the issue i'm having with windows8 is normal, then how can i make it as stable as on the other OS systems? (None of my other machines act the way windows8 does)

I'm not sure what "issue" you have except the spikes in CPU usage (and probably connected with them "pops") - nothing to do with the OS version.
Probably you use different settings (via local BOINC prefs) "on the other OS systems"?

How to avoid the spikes is already answered:
(Simple View) Use no more than: 100% of the processor
(Advanced view) "Use at most 100% of CPU time"

(web - do Not have effect since you already use local prefs) Suspend work when non-BOINC CPU usage is above 0% (shown also as --- %)
(local - switch to Advanced view to see it) While processor usage is less than 0 percent


Would you have any idea why I would hear the pop in my case?

Probably:
- Temperature changes (because CPU/GPU load changes) cause expand/shrink of the components.
Not good thing - better keep temperature 'constant' (slow/small changes) and not very high (15-20°C under the max allowed working temperature for CPU/GPU).
- If sound is like sparks - some component/cable/contact may be loose (when CPU/GPU load become high the electrical current increases, if contact is bad may cause sparks)
- Are you sure the sound is coming from inside the case? (switch off the speakers to test)

In the Windows8 machine, i have 2 hard drives.
I disconnect 1 to connect the other.
1 hard drive has windows8, the other has windows7.
The pop i hear is inside the case and only when i have the windows8 running. (NOT in the speakers)

So it's not "Windows8 machine", it's just a "machine" ;)
You have different installations of BOINC with (probably) different local settings on the "2 hard drives".

Try to find where the 'pop' comes from with the case opened.
Try will you hear the 'pop' if you load/idle the CPU with some other program (e.g. start/stop Benchmark in WinRAR or 7-Zip)

Another (bad) possibility is that the HDD with Windows8 on it is making this clicking sound (sign that this HDD may die any moment)


Also, how many cores are running on Your install of Windows8 ?

Cores ? :) - if you see the pictures from TThrottle:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=68948&postid=1277084#1277084

... you'll see I have one-core CPU
(the white line is the temperature of this 1 core, the brown - for GPU, the red flat line - the Max I set for the CPU (the Max I set for the GPU is 64°C and not visible on this graph))

That I have one-core CPU is also shown in my computer details:
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=4832843

Windows8 ??
I don't have it, I don't want to have it,
I don't use it, I don't plan to use it in the next 10 years.


____________



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

clad
Send message
Joined: 11 Sep 12
Posts: 7
Credit: 632,522
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1290724 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 13:21:45 UTC - in response to Message 1290510.
Last modified: 3 Oct 2012, 13:34:14 UTC


So it's not "Windows8 machine", it's just a "machine" ;)

I guess i could just call it a computer and just let you guess which 1 i'm talking about.

When clicking on Threadmaster, in the instructions it says:
Configuration
ThreadMaster has no GUI interface, all configuration is done by using a well known tool "Regedit".

I don't use ThreadMaster (and never did), I also don't use the BOINC CPU Throttle mechanism ("Use no more than: XX% of the processor"/"Use at most XX% of CPU time"),
I use TThrottle (to be protected from overheating the CPU or GPU if e.g. fan stops)
I don't see why anyone will need "Use no more than: XX% of the processor" except for temperature/heating issues which TThrottle solves best in a smart way.
(so the question is: Why do (you think) you need "Use no more than: XX% of the processor" to be set lower than 100%?)

For the same reason i started this thread.
The windows8 machine does not stay with in range of what the settings are set to.


How to avoid the spikes is already answered:
(Simple View) Use no more than: 100% of the processor
(Advanced view) "Use at most 100% of CPU time"

Setting this to 100% in my windows8 machine, causes the 4 cores to stay maxed this NO spikes.
Picture going out to your car, starting it up.
Now while leaving it in park, stomp the gas to the floor and don't let up.
Your tack on the car should now be well into the red.
leave it there maxed out and see how it runs. We can come back tomorrow and see how that turns out.
(Long story made short, it's not always good to run something wide open constantly)



Windows8 ??
I don't have it, I don't want to have it,
I don't use it, I don't plan to use it in the next 10 years.

While your post count and credit may be impressive, how are you able to give advice on something you don't even have?
I feel this thread has come to a deadend.
No solutions, just alot of quotes saying the same thing.
____________

OzzFan
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 02
Posts: 13625
Credit: 31,018,466
RAC: 20,887
United States
Message 1290858 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 18:27:24 UTC - in response to Message 1290724.

The windows8 machine does not stay with in range of what the settings are set to.


The behavior you describe with the "spikes" is the way the CPU-limiting feature works for BOINC. You say it doesn't work that way with your other Windows machines, which makes me wonder why that is.

The CPU limiting feature in BOINC, when you have it set to 50% for example, runs the CPU at 100% for one second, then at 0% for the next. If you have it set for 75%, it runs the CPU for 100% for three seconds and 0 for one second. If you look at Task Manager (or similar program), this will make the CPU look like it is "spiking".


There is a similarly worded preference that will change the number of cores to which BOINC is allowed to run science apps on. If you change this setting to 75% of a quad-core machine, it will run 3 cores at 100% and leave the fourth core alone.

My best guess is that you have the two different preferences in use. The core-limiting preference on the Windows 7 machines and the CPU throttling feature on the Windows 8 machine.

If my guess is wrong, then we're going to need some more information as to how you have all of your preferences set, what venue each computer is in so that we can locate the source of the discrepancy, but understand that the "spikes" is normal behavior.

Profile BilBg
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 27 May 07
Posts: 2795
Credit: 6,315,386
RAC: 7,532
Bulgaria
Message 1290870 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 18:54:15 UTC - in response to Message 1290724.

While your post count and credit may be impressive, how are you able to give advice on something you don't even have?

Because this 'spikes in CPU usage' are not related to the OS!
On every system (not only Windows8, not only Windows per se, also on Linux and MacOS (no need to have Linux or MacOS to know that))
you will see spikes if you use "Use no more than: XX% of the processor" if XX% is less than 100%
That's how BOINC do it:
Ageless:
"BOINC has got throttling capability right there in the preferences.
Seek for "Use at most 100% of CPU time" and reduce it to whatever amount you want.
Mind, this will not set the CPU to use that value constantly, but it will run/suspend work on a 10 second basis according to the value you set.

E.g. 80% means BOINC runs applications for 4 seconds, pauses them for 1 second, runs for 4 seconds, pauses them for 1 second.
60% means 2 seconds run, 1 second pause, 2 seconds run, 1 second pause, etc.
"

(so CPU go to 100% for a number of "X seconds run", then go to near 0% for "Y seconds pause")

If you wonder who is Ageless - he is the main writer of BOINC wiki pages:
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/w/?title=Local_preferences&action=history


(Long story made short, it's not always good to run something wide open constantly)

Most people here run their computers at 100% computing all the time for years. (all cores, 100% of CPU time, all GPUs)
If you don't have temperature/overheating issues it is no problem for the hardware.
Switching on/off may cause more wear than running constantly at 100%

"Use no more than: XX% of the processor" is there only to fight temperature/overheating issues, not anything else.

If you want to fight lag in games (caused only by GPU apps):
Uncheck "Use GPU while computer is in use" here:




____________



- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)

Message boards : Number crunching : Seti and Windows8

Copyright © 2014 University of California