Immortality: Can we extend human lifespan?


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Profile Johnney Guinness
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Message 1295105 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 7:53:50 UTC - in response to Message 1295070.
Last modified: 14 Oct 2012, 8:05:35 UTC

How the heck can a clone be identical if it does not have your memories? Its just another body that looks like you. Until the day that a mind can be uploaded to a clone its not the same.

And Id like to know how those people with more money than brains made out cloning a pet. My guess is yeah they looked the same but I bet they had a totally different personality. ( Why Fluffy you never shredded the drapes before)

My take on a clone is they should have human rights, And to grow them just for you to take parts from or download your mind into is wrong.

Now cyborgs is a different story.

James Sotherden,
Your clone will be like your identical twin. Through normal natural processes, occasionally women have identical twins, but it is very rare. Most twins are not identical.

But yes, your clone will indeed go through a completely different upbringing and will differ to the YOU that exists today. But your clone can "learn" about what the original YOU did during your life. Even though your clone will go through a different upbringing, your clone will bare all the personality traits that the original YOU has today. Everyone knows the old saying "Like father, like Son". Well YOU and your clone will have identical personality traits. But yes, different memories.

And yes, further down the road, a little further into the future, transferring "memories" into the brain of a brand new cloned YOU will be possible. This is how true immortality is achieved! In reality, because of general ware and tare on the human body, there is no point in using the same body for any more than about a thousand years, like the Biblical Adam (lived 960 years). So further down the line, when each person reaches about a thousand years old, you would just clone the new body and transfer the memories into the new body. And away you go, your good for another thousand years. You can keep repeating that process indefinitely, effectively making you immortal.

To quote the words of Jesus Christ;
" You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’" John 3:7

John.

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Message 1295167 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 11:15:39 UTC

" You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"


Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

Those words did not mean to be physically born again, or to be cloned from DNA. What they did mean in a metaphorical way, was that people needed to ditch their old ideas and customs and learn a new way of thinking and behaving. Then they will get the "message" and be effectively "born again" by living the rest of their lives in a different way.

There are many hundreds of similar passages in the Bible where statements are made in a metaphorical sense, that should not be taken literally. When Jesus or God are quoted they usually speak in this way, often citing parables to illustrate the point.

Conversely there are hundreds more where other people as observers speak of their experiences, that were written in the parlance of the time, where they can be taken more literally. The Bible is a hotch potch of old myths and legends, ancient Parish records, contemporary accounts, and peoples opinions, all jumbled up together. It was a clumsy attempt by the scribes of the day to write all their knowledge down before it got lost or even further amended or diluted.

The truth is that if you took a Bible to a publisher that had never seen it before they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. And yet it's revered by millions of people throughout the world as the most important book ever written. If I live forever I will still never understand that.

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Message 1295195 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 12:52:53 UTC - in response to Message 1295167.
Last modified: 14 Oct 2012, 12:54:12 UTC

" You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"


Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

Those words did not mean to be physically born again, or to be cloned from DNA. What they did mean in a metaphorical way, was that people needed to ditch their old ideas and customs and learn a new way of thinking and behaving. Then they will get the "message" and be effectively "born again" by living the rest of their lives in a different way.

There are many hundreds of similar passages in the Bible where statements are made in a metaphorical sense, that should not be taken literally. When Jesus or God are quoted they usually speak in this way, often citing parables to illustrate the point.

Conversely there are hundreds more where other people as observers speak of their experiences, that were written in the parlance of the time, where they can be taken more literally. The Bible is a hotch potch of old myths and legends, ancient Parish records, contemporary accounts, and peoples opinions, all jumbled up together. It was a clumsy attempt by the scribes of the day to write all their knowledge down before it got lost or even further amended or diluted.

The truth is that if you took a Bible to a publisher that had never seen it before they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. And yet it's revered by millions of people throughout the world as the most important book ever written. If I live forever I will still never understand that.

You sure about all that Chris?

Are you sure that there are no literal statements in the Bible? Exactly how sure are you that Jesus wasn't slipping in a literal statement about cloning that would would only be understood by the final and last generation of Human Beings on Earth just before he returns.

Yea Chris, it was probably a lucky guess by Jesus that someone could be brought back from the dead by cloning. After all, that Jesus guy was very primitive, they has no TV's or mobile phones, or Discovery channel or the internet, so they couldn't have known about cloning. As for that God fellow - that was definitely a lucky guess that he started the whole bible by "guessing" that you could "create" plants and animals. Yes, these were just lucky guesses!! Us human beings are the most intelligent creatures in the whole universe. It would be impossible for someone else to know more that we do...right?

John.

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Message 1295234 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 15:06:48 UTC
Last modified: 14 Oct 2012, 15:16:20 UTC

Exactly how sure are you that Jesus wasn't slipping in a literal statement about cloning

Just how sure are you that he was? Any evidence?

that would would only be understood by the final and last generation of Human Beings on Earth

Oh, so we are all going to be wiped from history are we? When is this going to be? Where do you get that interpretation from? I thought we were going to be promised eternal life. That's bit of a bummer.

just before he returns.

Got any timescales? "It will happen very soon" is not going to cut it around here any more. If I say I'll see you soon to a friend, that would probably mean in a few days. If I say to a colleague we must meet for lunch soon, that could mean a few weeks. The Bible reckons the earth and humans has been around for 5000 years, so soon in that context could be a few hundred years away. Convenient get out.

There used to be a famous chap in the 1980's that walked up and down Oxford Street in London wearing sandwich boards that proclaimed "the end of the world is nigh, repent all ye sinners". Come rain or shine he was there. A local eccentric totally off his trolley, but was amusing for the tourists. If you genuinely believe all that you are saying, then why are you wasting your time on these boards? Wouldn't you be better off being a lay preacher somewhere?

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Message 1295235 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 15:15:18 UTC - in response to Message 1295234.

Think he's been mixing up the bible with what Jehovah Witness's have been preaching about the Book of Revelations.

If they're to be believed, the second coming is expected before the end of 2014 as they see it prophesied 100 years after the start of WW1.

So, if the Mayans are right, we won't have to worry about that then, but if they're wrong, what makes 2014 correct?

As far as I'm concerned, they're all just interpretations of individuals, with some attaining positions of authority & attempting to influence the rest of us.
____________

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Message 1295238 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 15:29:33 UTC - in response to Message 1295105.
Last modified: 14 Oct 2012, 15:32:32 UTC

But yes, your clone will indeed go through a completely different upbringing and will differ to the YOU that exists today. But your clone can "learn" about what the original YOU did during your life. Even though your clone will go through a different upbringing, your clone will bare all the personality traits that the original YOU has today. Everyone knows the old saying "Like father, like Son". Well YOU and your clone will have identical personality traits. But yes, different memories.


There's a lot more to "becoming" an individual than simply learning who they were. We are all taught about people in history, but that doesn't make us them. The only way to have the same personality traits is to live all of the life experiences the original has. Since the only universal constant is change, there's absolutely no way that a clone can obtain the exact personality as the original simply by "learning" it while having it's own experiences. The best that it can hope for is to pretend or "act" (as in the way actors portray characters on TV) like the original.

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Message 1295241 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 15:36:56 UTC

Sirius, since the dawn of time, those who believe in a particular religion try to convince the rest of us to convert to their beliefs. It ranges from the Hell fire & brimstone pulpit thumping sermons of the Welsh Baptists, to the Victorians socially ostracising people who were not seen in church on a Sunday, to the JW's who are nothing but a social nuisance.

We have the American Evangelists like Billy Graham, and various other sects like the Mormons with their squeaky clean image. Then there are the various sects based on drugs that practice mass suicide every so often. There are the African and Caribbean Voodoo cults that are based on witch doctors. And yet apparently 86% of the world is religious. Religion

Seems to me a lot of people are going to be very disappointed.

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Message 1295301 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 18:37:25 UTC
Last modified: 14 Oct 2012, 18:40:04 UTC

He forgets why we are programmed for a given span on this world, and, for him, by the God that the bible says created us.

If too many in power were able to extend life ad nauseum, while in power, the effects would be no progress or questioning in society, likely little scientific progress and certainly no learning the lessons of history.

Why, therefore, do you want to extend human life span?

Is your contribution to society so valuable that society cannot afford to loose you?

What is the benefit to the common good of the extension of human life, when old age (extended) makes you a long term burden on the community that we all collectively have to pay for?
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Message 1295312 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 18:51:33 UTC - in response to Message 1295234.

Exactly how sure are you that Jesus wasn't slipping in a literal statement about cloning

Just how sure are you that he was? Any evidence?

Yes, i do have evidence Chris, you know i do. And i have told you numerous times, i'm decoding and translating the information. As i said, this takes time.

that would would only be understood by the final and last generation of Human Beings on Earth

Oh, so we are all going to be wiped from history are we? When is this going to be? Where do you get that interpretation from? I thought we were going to be promised eternal life. That's bit of a bummer.

Lets be clear here Chris,
NOBODY promised you eternal life!!
The Bible is very clear. People who follow God's commandments will have their chromosomes modified so that their lifespan is massively increased, in effect, making them immortal.

You Chris, have personally slandered God and made a mockery of the word of God on these message boards. So Chris you will reap what you sow when you meet your maker. I won't be your judge, it will be other people who you already know.

just before he returns.

Got any timescales? "It will happen very soon" is not going to cut it around here any more. If I say I'll see you soon to a friend, that would probably mean in a few days. If I say to a colleague we must meet for lunch soon, that could mean a few weeks. The Bible reckons the earth and humans has been around for 5000 years, so soon in that context could be a few hundred years away. Convenient get out.

There used to be a famous chap in the 1980's that walked up and down Oxford Street in London wearing sandwich boards that proclaimed "the end of the world is nigh, repent all ye sinners". Come rain or shine he was there. A local eccentric totally off his trolley, but was amusing for the tourists. If you genuinely believe all that you are saying, then why are you wasting your time on these boards? Wouldn't you be better off being a lay preacher somewhere?

Chris,
I have already answered this question for you many times. NOBODY has a timescale, no more than anyone can give YOU a time and date for when you are going to die. The Bible specifically says "No man will know the time".

John.

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Message 1295318 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 19:06:54 UTC - in response to Message 1295312.

God himself (if one believes in him that is), said he does not want his children to believe in blind faith but to search out the truth.

How that is achieved is down to the individual, not some muppet in robes where one has to kneel & kiss his ring!
____________

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Message 1295365 - Posted: 14 Oct 2012, 22:11:35 UTC - in response to Message 1295312.

Exactly how sure are you that Jesus wasn't slipping in a literal statement about cloning

Just how sure are you that he was? Any evidence?

Yes, i do have evidence Chris, you know i do. And i have told you numerous times, i'm decoding and translating the information. As i said, this takes time.

that would would only be understood by the final and last generation of Human Beings on Earth

Oh, so we are all going to be wiped from history are we? When is this going to be? Where do you get that interpretation from? I thought we were going to be promised eternal life. That's bit of a bummer.

Lets be clear here Chris,
NOBODY promised you eternal life!!
The Bible is very clear. People who follow God's commandments will have their chromosomes modified so that their lifespan is massively increased, in effect, making them immortal.


So they won't be clones after all?

You Chris, have personally slandered God and made a mockery of the word of God on these message boards. So Chris you will reap what you sow when you meet your maker. I won't be your judge, it will be other people who you already know.

just before he returns.

Got any timescales? "It will happen very soon" is not going to cut it around here any more. If I say I'll see you soon to a friend, that would probably mean in a few days. If I say to a colleague we must meet for lunch soon, that could mean a few weeks. The Bible reckons the earth and humans has been around for 5000 years, so soon in that context could be a few hundred years away. Convenient get out.

There used to be a famous chap in the 1980's that walked up and down Oxford Street in London wearing sandwich boards that proclaimed "the end of the world is nigh, repent all ye sinners". Come rain or shine he was there. A local eccentric totally off his trolley, but was amusing for the tourists. If you genuinely believe all that you are saying, then why are you wasting your time on these boards? Wouldn't you be better off being a lay preacher somewhere?

Chris,
I have already answered this question for you many times. NOBODY has a timescale, no more than anyone can give YOU a time and date for when you are going to die. The Bible specifically says "No man will know the time".

John.


You're the one that states their reading from the scolls/books of God as foretold in Revelation. When do you plan to do this?
____________
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1295483 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 8:50:22 UTC
Last modified: 15 Oct 2012, 8:53:27 UTC

You Chris, have personally slandered God and made a mockery of the word of God on these message boards.

No I haven't, I have simply challenged your beliefs and asked you to come up with reasons or evidence why you feel as you do. I have never mocked your beliefs, merely said that I don't agree with them, that is a different thing altogether.

And in any case, you as an educated man ought to know that Slander is an oral defamation, and that Libel is the written one.

So Chris you will reap what you sow when you meet your maker. I won't be your judge, it will be other people who you already know.

It seems to me that the problem here is, that you will never know if that happens, and I won't be able to come back and tell you if it did. Also it sounds like the traditional pulpit frighteners to those wavering about being a believer. If you don't follow our teachings you could be in trouble in the future etc.

You have now admitted that no-one, including you, nor the Bible, has a timescale for the end of the world and judgement day. So what is the point of you keeping saying "it will happen very soon"? Rather than getting all thin skinned because someone challenges your assertions, why not just have the courage of your convictions and say, "look these happen to be my beliefs, I am happy with them, I've explained them as far as I can, and I'm entitled to my opinion". Then fine, we all respect your faith in your god, and leave you to it.

These are discussion forums, they are not supposed to be used to try to convert people to others religious followings. If you want to continue making the claims and statements that you do, then you must expect to get challenged on them. I would much rather talk to you about ET in the past, where to an extent we do seem to agree.

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Message 1295493 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 9:52:16 UTC

Chris,
These are NOT my "beliefs". I said before, i actually don't believe it myself, i struggle to accept my own scientific findings. I'm still in shock almost 2 years after finding it out. Even thought i hold the "proof" in my hands, its so shocking that, like everyone else here, i refuse to believe it until i see it with my own 2 eyes. I know its possible to raise the dead through cloning, but its such a shockingly real thought, i'm not going to believe it until i see one of my dead relatives standing in front of me in the flesh.

John.

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Message 1295498 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 10:19:43 UTC
Last modified: 15 Oct 2012, 10:24:43 UTC

Hi John,

Now that is a really refreshing post from you upon this subject. I think we could all probably imagine ourselves in a similar position, and think what the heck is going on? This stuff purports to tell me things that I find difficult to accept, and yet there it is in black and white. Yes, it would be a bit scary.

But again, you do get tempted to get a bit rhetorical at times. The ability to clone a human being from DNA is now possible, but it is NOT the same thing as raising the dead. It is impossible to bring a dead corpse back to life as the original person. A partial copy with some physical characteristics maybe. You will not see one of your dead relatives standing in front of you in your lifetime John, I guarantee you that.

When the Bible talks about raising the dead, it does not necessarily mean physically digging up graves and DNA cloning, It is figurative speech for the re-education of the masses to a new belief in peace and world order. You need to step outside the box on occasions John and take more of a helicopter view of things.

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Message 1295507 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 10:50:47 UTC
Last modified: 15 Oct 2012, 10:59:09 UTC

What does "The End of the world" mean?

I just want to talk about "The end of the World" and clarify what it means in the Bible.

In many places, the Bible actually uses the term "The end of the world". In the bible, the term "The End of the World" does NOT mean that the whole universe will end and blow up. And neither does it mean that planet Earth with blow up or disappear into the abyss.

In the bible, the term "The End of the World" is about human cloning. Its about the end of "humanity" or the end of the species of living creature called "Homo sapiens", thats us! As i said here already, humanity is on the brink of the era where we are about to start resurrecting the dead through human cloning. Quite literally, very soon, people all over the world will go into their local grave yards with mechanical excavators and exhume their dead relatives to extract a DNA sample from the bones, to clone the person and "resurrect" them. As far as i'm aware, the biblical Book of Revelation calls this "The great tribulation" because its going to be a very distressing time for everyone. People who read the Bible will be ready for this. But everyone else will just be left in pure confusion not knowing what's going on.

So what does the "End of the world" mean?

Many of you have heard of "genetic traits" or illnesses that get passed on from one generation to the next. These are caused by mutations in your genes, or your DNA code.

During the resurrection, DNA samples will be taken from the dead. But you can't just clone the person from the sample because the DNA sample will have many "DNA mutations" that would just cause sickness. So before you clone the DNA sample, the DNA mutations must be repaired before hand. So each sample is analysed and all the flaws or mutations that have accumulated in the persons DNA will be "spliced out" and replaced with fully functioning DNA. This means the resurrected person will not get sick any more. In effect, the new generation of cloned people will be completely free from genetic flaws. There will be no more sickness.

This subsequent "repairing" and "updating" of peoples DNA will effectively make the person a different species. While people will still be the same person, they won't have any flaws in their DNA. But this means that we won't be the species called "Homo sapiens" any more. Scientists will just invent a new name for the species like "Homo sapiens 2.0 repaired". Its a bit like producing a new version of any computer software. We will be going from "Homo sapiens 1.0" to the new version "Homo sapiens 2.0".

It will take over a hundred years to complete this DNA update to humanity because everybody will have to get the update. So people born today will have to be let to live out their full human life before they get cloned and get the update. So once it starts, it will take over a hundred years to complete. But by the time its finished, there will be no "Homo sapiens 1.0" left. Everyone will have the new "Homo sapiens 2.0" DNA code.

That is what the Bible means when it talks about "The end of the world" or "The end of humanity". There will be no more of the original "Adam & Eve" species of human beings. We will have become a new and stronger species. But on the outside, everybody will look and act exactly the same. You won't be able to tell the difference between the original person and the new, updated person.

John.

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Message 1295536 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 12:27:47 UTC - in response to Message 1295507.

But on the outside, everybody will look and act exactly the same. You won't be able to tell the difference between the original person and the new, updated person.
John.


How boring! In that case, I don't wanna come back!
____________

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Message 1295545 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 13:02:09 UTC

Ladies and Gentlemen, I did my best, I really did. I gave him the benefit of the doubt right along the line. And earlier today, I really thought that perhaps I had got through to him. Then we see this again, and there is just no point any more.

Quite literally, very soon, people all over the world will go into their local grave yards with mechanical excavators and exhume their dead relatives to extract a DNA sample from the bones, to clone the person and "resurrect" them.

Johnney, if that is your honest, genuine, and sincere opinion as to what you think is going to happen very shortly, then you simply have no grip on the the real world around you. I can only suggest in the kindest way possible, that you make an appointment with your doctor and ask for some counselling. I only hope that you are not responsible for any young children or animals, else I would seriously worry about their welfare.

I wish you all the best, I really do, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time.



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Message 1295546 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 13:12:40 UTC - in response to Message 1295545.

Aw c'mon Chris, you gotta admit that in this depressing economic situation the world finds itself in, anything that brings us a chuckle or two has to be worth it...... :)
____________

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Message 1295557 - Posted: 15 Oct 2012, 13:24:28 UTC

Chris,
The Jews know this is coming. The Vatican knows its coming. The Israeli government are currently making preparations for the event. The whole Islamic world has also been preparing for this event. The world has, and still is, going through the greatest single Islamic uprising in the whole of human history. Its been called the "Arab spring" and its still happening today. It started in Tunisia in 2010, and quickly spread to Egypt, Libya and at least 10 other middle eastern nations. All this is in the Book of Revelation, its all happening right on schedule. They all know what's about to happen because its written down in their religious books. The people who can't see this happening are people who reject the bible.

Its happening right now, on your TV screens every day, on every news channel, but you won't understand it if you have never tried to understand the bible.

John.

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