What would convert you to God?


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Profile Sarge
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Message 1285642 - Posted: 19 Sep 2012, 20:50:44 UTC

Johnney, as uaual, Johnney, you read my post too literally, Johnney.
(I'm 5 steps ahead of you. Johnney.)

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Message 1285661 - Posted: 19 Sep 2012, 21:39:30 UTC

Johnny quotes the bible as saying that bodies should be buried in waiting for the resurrection. Being that we've been burying Christians for about 2000 years. I assume someone was supposed to dig those folks back up with the time comes. Otherwise being resurrected would really stink 6 ft under
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Message 1285668 - Posted: 19 Sep 2012, 21:57:19 UTC - in response to Message 1285580.


Your understanding of the science appears to be in need of a little updating.


And Bobby i suppose your going to update me with your extensive knowledge of genetics? Thanks, i look forward to that.

John.


I never said I had extensive knowledge of genetics, though it appeared that your understanding is not based on current science. The rest of the post was intended to help you on a couple of points.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1286029 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 22:44:41 UTC - in response to Message 1285479.
Last modified: 20 Sep 2012, 22:45:13 UTC

Chris a cloned human being is NOT a physical approximation! Its a perfect copy in every possible way. It just won't have the "memory" of the previous life. The cloned person will be just like your twin. But not all twin babies are identical. But occasionally, you do get identical twins. Your clone will be your twin. So occasionally nature does this anyway! There are lots of identical twins today anyway.


Johnny you're wrong. Setting aside the personality differences resulting from different experiences and memories, while a genetic clone will have identical DNA, it will not necessarily be a perfect copy in every possible way. Identical (mono-zygotic) twins are close to being physically identical at birth, though if separated and raised on different diets and exposed to different environments, will soon start to show physical differences. The reason they're close to physically identical at birth is that they shared a common environment in the womb. Genetic clones of existing people will be different from the DNA donor at birth, as the wombs will be different, and further physical differences will accumulate.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1286031 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 22:50:24 UTC - in response to Message 1286029.

Chris a cloned human being is NOT a physical approximation! Its a perfect copy in every possible way. It just won't have the "memory" of the previous life. The cloned person will be just like your twin. But not all twin babies are identical. But occasionally, you do get identical twins. Your clone will be your twin. So occasionally nature does this anyway! There are lots of identical twins today anyway.


Johnny you're wrong. Setting aside the personality differences resulting from different experiences and memories, while a genetic clone will have identical DNA, it will not necessarily be a perfect copy in every possible way. Identical (mono-zygotic) twins are close to being physically identical at birth, though if separated and raised on different diets and exposed to different environments, will soon start to show physical differences. The reason they're close to physically identical at birth is that they shared a common environment in the womb. Genetic clones of existing people will be different from the DNA donor at birth, as the wombs will be different, and further physical differences will accumulate.

Bobby,
Hmmmmmm......are you going to try to teach me about genetics? Be very careful Bobby, if your going to correct me on matters of genetic engineering, you better be sure about your science. I'm very good with genetics Bobby, i'm not wrong!

John.
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Message 1286037 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:02:36 UTC - in response to Message 1286031.

Chris a cloned human being is NOT a physical approximation! Its a perfect copy in every possible way. It just won't have the "memory" of the previous life. The cloned person will be just like your twin. But not all twin babies are identical. But occasionally, you do get identical twins. Your clone will be your twin. So occasionally nature does this anyway! There are lots of identical twins today anyway.


Johnny you're wrong. Setting aside the personality differences resulting from different experiences and memories, while a genetic clone will have identical DNA, it will not necessarily be a perfect copy in every possible way. Identical (mono-zygotic) twins are close to being physically identical at birth, though if separated and raised on different diets and exposed to different environments, will soon start to show physical differences. The reason they're close to physically identical at birth is that they shared a common environment in the womb. Genetic clones of existing people will be different from the DNA donor at birth, as the wombs will be different, and further physical differences will accumulate.

Bobby,
Hmmmmmm......are you going to try to teach me about genetics? Be very careful Bobby, if your going to correct me on matters of genetic engineering, you better be sure about your science. I'm very good with genetics Bobby, i'm not wrong!

John.


Then please point out the errors in what I posted.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1286041 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:10:15 UTC

Ok Bobby,

Setting aside the personality differences resulting from different experiences and memories, while a genetic clone will have identical DNA, it will not necessarily be a perfect copy in every possible way

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

Identical (mono-zygotic) twins are close to being physically identical at birth,

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

Genetic clones of existing people will be different from the DNA donor at birth

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!
as the wombs will be different, and further physical differences will accumulate.


This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

John.
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Message 1286047 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:15:54 UTC - in response to Message 1286041.

Ok Bobby,
Setting aside the personality differences resulting from different experiences and memories, while a genetic clone will have identical DNA, it will not necessarily be a perfect copy in every possible way

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

Identical (mono-zygotic) twins are close to being physically identical at birth,

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

Genetic clones of existing people will be different from the DNA donor at birth

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!
as the wombs will be different, and further physical differences will accumulate.


This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

John.


Congratulations, you pointed out statements and said they were wrong, you did not point out errors.

Starting with a simple one, mono-zygotic (identical) twins are not physically identical at birth (supporting evidence).

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Profile Johnney Guinness
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Message 1286049 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:18:50 UTC - in response to Message 1286047.

Congratulations, you pointed out statements and said they were wrong, you did not point out errors.

Starting with a simple one, mono-zygotic (identical) twins are not physically identical at birth (supporting evidence).

Well now Bobby,
I guess God is going to have to check with you first before he starts raising the dead.

John.

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Message 1286050 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:21:08 UTC - in response to Message 1286049.

Congratulations, you pointed out statements and said they were wrong, you did not point out errors.

Starting with a simple one, mono-zygotic (identical) twins are not physically identical at birth (supporting evidence).

Well now Bobby,
I guess God is going to have to check with you first before he starts raising the dead.

John.


Are you conceding that your understanding of the science is in error?
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1286185 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 6:42:34 UTC

I hope most here have taken notice of the fact that, although I have expressed my faith as simple belief, and don't engage in much debate about it, neither do I attempt to 'convert' anybody to my own beliefs.

I am not afraid or shy to mention His name....or the way I feel. But I don't feel I need to try to convince others to change what they believe. Everyone's belief structure is the product of the way they were raised, taught, and sometimes a particular event in their life that made them believe, think, and feel the way they do.

That should be respected. Just as I would hope that others would respect the way I feel, even if they cannot see or understand it themselves.

I just got word earlier today that, after 27 weeks of chemotherapy, my love Lori got word from Froedtert hospital that her last test showed her in total remission of HCV, which she has been fighting for years, and had previously failed to achieve a cure on chemo before.

A new drug, Incivek, had a lot to do with it.

But I also strongly believe that my daily prayers on her behalf were granted by God as well. No argument, debate, or other discussion will move me from that belief. I have it fully in my heart and soul, and you shall not wrest it from me.

I suspect others feel the same way.

Meow.
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Message 1286247 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 13:43:55 UTC - in response to Message 1286041.
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 13:46:22 UTC

Ok Bobby,
Setting aside the personality differences resulting from different experiences and memories, while a genetic clone will have identical DNA, it will not necessarily be a perfect copy in every possible way

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

Identical (mono-zygotic) twins are close to being physically identical at birth,

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

Genetic clones of existing people will be different from the DNA donor at birth

This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!
as the wombs will be different, and further physical differences will accumulate.


This is wrong Bobby! Go check your science before correcting me!

John.


No concession suggests you need further convincing. Mono-zygotic (identical) twins reared apart are similar to each other not identical (supporting evidence). While mono-zygotic twins reared apart are more similar to each other across a broad range of measures than di-zygotic (non-identical) twins, they are not perfect copies of each other. Mono-zygotic (identical) twins are nature's own clones. As nature's own clones raised apart are likely to be subject to very similar societal influences, it would seem reasonable to assume the differences between them will be less than the differences between a donor and his/her clone raised 10's to 100's of years apart.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1286473 - Posted: 22 Sep 2012, 0:21:43 UTC

Hmmm...what would convert me....nothing.
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Message 1287665 - Posted: 25 Sep 2012, 10:39:46 UTC

Some physical, scientifically tested, and peer-reviewed evidence might convert me.

Ancient fairy-tales in a book compiled millennia ago will not.

If God can send me Amanda Righetti in a tutu right this instant, i'll be a convert.
I shouldn't have to pray for it, he's supposedly omniscient, so he knows what i want.
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Message 1287765 - Posted: 25 Sep 2012, 16:24:29 UTC

Cloning!
Don't we kind of do that when we procreate?
Hasn't this gotten a bit off topic?

Anyway, believing in a God is a 'faith' thing. Once we have 'proof' of his (or hers Reg!) existence we don't need the 'faith' 'cos we have the real deal.

Converting to or from a 'faith' would follow a human experience which may otherwise be inexplicable to the individual involved.

For me, if I woke up tomorrow and I saw that:-
a) there were no human beings suffering, anywhere, in any way, on this here little blue ball.
b) dental treatment wasn't so expensive even though it is so important.

Then, even if I 'saw' no other proof of it having been caused by a deity, I would believe that we were cared for by a 'God'. And I wouldn't much care who It was or even what colour or how long It's hair was.

So far, I see no reason to believe in the kind of omnipotent being I describe above.

If It's waiting for us to make the right descisions then it is failing. In the main, even we look after our kids pretty well.

With creation comes responsibility.

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Message 1287834 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 0:04:12 UTC - in response to Message 1287665.

If God can send me Amanda Righetti in a tutu right this instant, i'll be a convert.


In a tutu? Oh, I can be so much more creative than that, especially with someone like her. ;-D

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Message 1287867 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 2:49:43 UTC

From a totally selfish point of view it would take a miracle of monsterous proportion. Fix my birth defect/handicap and do the same for every other person born with a crippling afliction. I would then reconsider the evidence.
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Message 1287936 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 9:43:24 UTC - in response to Message 1287834.

If God can send me Amanda Righetti in a tutu right this instant, i'll be a convert.


In a tutu? Oh, I can be so much more creative than that, especially with someone like her. ;-D

Agreed!

Anyway, it didn't happen, ergo there is no god, QED!
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But read doesn't rhyme with lead, nor does read rhyme with lead.

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Message 1287947 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 10:30:43 UTC

The notion of an ultimate being that can be used to explain the unexplainable, or used in a blasphemous sense has been around since the dawn of time. Probably more of a comfort factor than anything else if we were truthful. But it has permeated into everyday life even for non-believers. We all say OMG when surprised even if we don't worship one. In the UK we say "Oh cor blimey!" which is a corrupted version of the original Oh god blind me.

Simonator Esq

26th Inst

Sorry pal we are right out of Tutus this week, could you call back later?

Thanks.

Gabriel

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