What did God do before creation?

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Profile Johnney Guinness
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Message 1286057 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:32:15 UTC - in response to Message 1286052.  

John, you just used the Bible as your claimed scientific back up.

Yes, thats correct! Why do you view that as a problem?

John.
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Message 1286058 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:37:29 UTC - in response to Message 1286057.  

John, I never said it was a problem, just unusual. Diversity is allowed.
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Message 1286061 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:43:01 UTC - in response to Message 1286058.  

John, I never said it was a problem, just unusual. Diversity is allowed.

Ok so, why do you think its unusual? The vast majority of people on this planet believe in a God of one sort or another. This puts me in the majority. And puts non believers in a very small minority.

John.
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Message 1286062 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:44:39 UTC - in response to Message 1286052.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 0:28:59 UTC

John, you just used the Bible as your claimed scientific back up.

Exactly so...

Which also narrows down his use of terms such as "science" and "everything" and "100%".

Anything is possible in the world of Belief.

Good grief!!


Even so, Johnney could well have a "best-seller" if he can string his ideas along into a readable book. All the better would be if he can also weave in there something of a 'story'. His voyage of discovery perhaps?... ;-)

Keep searchin',
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Message 1286068 - Posted: 20 Sep 2012, 23:57:33 UTC - in response to Message 1286020.  

Me and Robert are part of the majority who know with 100% scientific confidence that God exists!


Please provide an example of a scientific theory that is held with 100% confidence.

Here's a clue to help you find the example, "a central tenet of the scientific method--science cannot prove anything with 100% certainty" (source). Happy hunting.

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1286071 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:02:41 UTC - in response to Message 1286061.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 0:04:51 UTC

John, I never said it was a problem, just unusual. Diversity is allowed.

Ok so, why do you think its unusual? The vast majority of people on this planet believe in a God of one sort or another. This puts me in the majority. And puts non believers in a very small minority.

John.

If there are 1.5 billion christians, 1 billion Muslims, 0.8 billion Hindus, 0.5 billion Budahsim, and the world population is >7 billion. Then the minority is not all that small at over 45%.

Do wish you would check at least a few small facts before posting.
I have never seen anything scientific in the Bible. Could you please show me where there are any scientific facts.
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Message 1286074 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:13:05 UTC - in response to Message 1286068.  

Me and Robert are part of the majority who know with 100% scientific confidence that God exists!


Please provide an example of a scientific theory that is held with 100% confidence.

Here's a clue to help you find the example, "a central tenet of the scientific method--science cannot prove anything with 100% certainty" (source). Happy hunting.

Ahhhh Bobby,
Your making this too easy for me :)

Here you go, start reading. And enjoy the word of God;
http://www.biblegateway.com/

Its full to the brim with science!

Bobby God created your ancestors through genetic engineering, just like he created all the living creatures on Earth. And God was very good to us, he did not leave us in the dark about how things work. He gave us many books that tell us exactly what happened. So we are very lucky that God was so kind to give us all the books that are contained in the Holy Bible. We are very lucky!

God still loves you Bobby, because you are one of his children. He is your father and he will be annoyed at you for mocking his work. Say sorry to God!

But God's Son Jesus came into the world with very good news Bobby. Jesus said that if you repent and turn to God, he will forgive your sins.

Turn to God and he will show you the light. God has a lot of love, even for you Bobby.

John.
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Message 1286075 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:19:42 UTC - in response to Message 1286071.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 0:20:18 UTC

If there are 1.5 billion christians, 1 billion Muslims, 0.8 billion Hindus, 0.5 billion Budahsim, and the world population is >7 billion. Then the minority is not all that small at over 45%.

Do wish you would check at least a few small facts before posting.
I have never seen anything scientific in the Bible. Could you please show me where there are any scientific facts.

WinterKnight,
You are the scientific fact. Jesus said "Know yourself, and you will know God"

Now WinterKnight i'm not going to spiritualise that statement away. Just tell me what you think it means?

John.
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Message 1286079 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:28:17 UTC - in response to Message 1286074.  

Me and Robert are part of the majority who know with 100% scientific confidence that God exists!


Please provide an example of a scientific theory that is held with 100% confidence.

Here's a clue to help you find the example, "a central tenet of the scientific method--science cannot prove anything with 100% certainty" (source). Happy hunting.

Ahhhh Bobby,
Your making this too easy for me :)

Here you go, start reading. And enjoy the word of God;
http://www.biblegateway.com/

Its full to the brim with science!

Bobby God created your ancestors through genetic engineering, just like he created all the living creatures on Earth. And God was very good to us, he did not leave us in the dark about how things work. He gave us many books that tell us exactly what happened. So we are very lucky that God was so kind to give us all the books that are contained in the Holy Bible. We are very lucky!

God still loves you Bobby, because you are one of his children. He is your father and he will be annoyed at you for mocking his work. Say sorry to God!

But God's Son Jesus came into the world with very good news Bobby. Jesus said that if you repent and turn to God, he will forgive your sins.

Turn to God and he will show you the light. God has a lot of love, even for you Bobby.

John.


Making it too easy and yet for all the fluff about God's love and annoyance you were unable to provide a single example? Interesting.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1286082 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:34:31 UTC - in response to Message 1286079.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 0:34:49 UTC

Making it too easy and yet for all the fluff about God's love and annoyance you were unable to provide a single example? Interesting.

No Bobby,
Did you miss the link i gave you. Here it is again;
http://www.biblegateway.com/

And enjoy the word of God. He loves you Bobby!

John.
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Message 1286083 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:35:13 UTC - in response to Message 1286079.  

Bobby, you find John's behavior interesting I find it odd.
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Message 1286084 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:37:18 UTC - in response to Message 1286079.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 0:43:51 UTC

... Here you go, start reading. And enjoy the word of God;
http://www.biblegateway.com/

Its full to the brim with science! ...


Making it too easy and yet for all the fluff about God's love and annoyance you were unable to provide a single example? Interesting.

Ahhhhh... I get it!

REVELATION!

(Noooo... Not the old Ultravox album by that title... ;-) )



So... All this time, and all these meanderings, just to tease us all along, to the 'simple' Revelation that to remove all conflict between Science and Religion, we can instead use the simple equation:

Religion = science

And

science = Religion



However, please note that we still have in the real world:

"Religious science" != Science

("!=" means "does not equal or equate to")



Nice try. Galileo was right all along...

Keep searchin',
Martin
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Message 1286085 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:38:26 UTC - in response to Message 1286082.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 0:38:46 UTC

Making it too easy and yet for all the fluff about God's love and annoyance you were unable to provide a single example? Interesting.

No Bobby,
Did you miss the link i gave you. Here it is again;
http://www.biblegateway.com/

And enjoy the word of God. He loves you Bobby!

John.


Did not miss the link, however, as it's not to a scientific theory held with 100% confidence, it did not appear to be a response to my request.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1286087 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:41:27 UTC - in response to Message 1286085.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 0:42:01 UTC

Making it too easy and yet for all the fluff about God's love and annoyance you were unable to provide a single example? Interesting.

No Bobby,
Did you miss the link i gave you. Here it is again;
http://www.biblegateway.com/

And enjoy the word of God. He loves you Bobby!

John.


Did not miss the link, however, as it's not to a scientific theory held with 100% confidence, it did not appear to be a response to my request.

However, note that Religion and Religious science and Belief is "held with 100% confidence".


All just a Revelation of terminology.

(I guess you can mean anything you like if you start rewriting someone's language for them... :-( )


Keep searchin',
Martin
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Message 1286090 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 0:58:57 UTC - in response to Message 1286084.  

... Here you go, start reading. And enjoy the word of God;
http://www.biblegateway.com/

Its full to the brim with science! ...


Making it too easy and yet for all the fluff about God's love and annoyance you were unable to provide a single example? Interesting.

Ahhhhh... I get it!

REVELATION!

(Noooo... Not the old Ultravox album by that title... ;-) )



So... All this time, and all these meanderings, just to tease us all along, to the 'simple' Revelation that to remove all conflict between Science and Religion, we can instead use the simple equation:

Religion = science

And

science = Religion



However, please note that we still have in the real world:

"Religious science" != Science

("!=" means "does not equal or equate to")



Nice try. Galileo was right all along...

Keep searchin',
Martin

Martin,
You almost have it. You said;
"Religion = science
And
science = Religion"

This is almost right Martin. I would word it differently. I would say it like this;
When you discover ALL the rules that govern ALL of science, in all the various disciplines of science, then there is no more science to discover. At that stage, once you have ALL the rules, your only left with engineering. In other words, we know how it works, so what kind of world do we want to live in?

And its at this point, that intelligent people start making rules. If you know how every single thing in science works, then there is no debate anymore. The rules to build the type of world where everyone can live equally become concrete. And you can't argue them any more. In other words, the final set of rules become "religion".

Religion is what happens when you get to the end of science discovery. Its what happens when you know all the rules. The genetic engineering scientists that came here to Earth thousands of years ago and created us had ALL of science, they had all the rules. And hence they knew exactly what would happen when they created us.

Right now today, us human beings ALMOST have all the rules of science. But we are not quite there yet. Roughly we have about 80% of the rules that govern ALL of science. Once we get to the end, only then will the cycle complete and everyone will know that the people that gave us all the religions of the world were right. Only then will we know that they are just like us. We are almost there, we only have a little bit to go!

John.
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Message 1286108 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 2:10:33 UTC - in response to Message 1286020.  

Only a fool who does not understand genetic engineering would dare to challenge the word of God!

Johnney, I'm sorry, what the heck has HAPPENED to you in 5-6 years?!?
Has it really transformed you SO MUCH that you now think the people who understand genetic engineering is anywhere near a majority of the world's population?!? Who painted you this very rose picture of the state of education across the world?!?
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Message 1286116 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 2:31:48 UTC - in response to Message 1286108.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 2:33:54 UTC

Only a fool who does not understand genetic engineering would dare to challenge the word of God!

Johnney, I'm sorry, what the heck has HAPPENED to you in 5-6 years?!?
Has it really transformed you SO MUCH that you now think the people who understand genetic engineering is anywhere near a majority of the world's population?!? Who painted you this very rose picture of the state of education across the world?!?

Sarge,
I will tell you exactly what happened to me.

I was a militant atheist for many years. But i had never done any research into either Evolution, or Religion. So i put my trust in science and i trusted that the evolutionary biologists were presenting me with the full story. Without doing any research, i trusted the monkey story because it sounded plausible in comparison to the God story. The monkey slowly changing over long periods of time sounded very reasonable, so i "believed" it. If so called "scientists" said it, then it must be right. How could anyone argue with that? These evolutionary biologists are professionals, and they are clever, so they must be telling the truth, right?

But something bothered me. While trusting the monkey story, i often wondered how billions of people could be so blinded with the God story. This troubled me! Yes, you could have millions of people who blindly follow the God story without checking it. But you can't blind everybody. There must be clever religious people that question the Bible and question God. Everybody can't be blindly following religion for no reason.

So i went and started checking both sides of the story. This checking has taken me many years, i have been at this for 6 years now. And its only in the last year and a half that i started to find out WHAT REALLY HAPPENED in ancient human history. I sit in the fence, i don't side with religion, nor do i side with science. This has allowed me to find out the real truth of what really happened.

My investigation is still on going. When i have compiled enough scientific evidence, i will publish my findings. And from what i have so far, we did not evolve from monkeys. I know this with 100% certainty, but unfortunately i'm not yet willing to release the scientific proof's. But i strongly suggest to anyone that simply trusts the evolution story to go and start checking it for loop holes, because its full of them.

John.
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Message 1286139 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 4:16:59 UTC - in response to Message 1286020.  
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 4:20:31 UTC

To the Darwinists,
Intelligent Design is a very legitimate scientific theory. Only a fool who does not understand genetic engineering would dare to challenge the word of God!

There is a full scientific document, its called the Bible, and its jam packed full of scientific evidence for God.

To those people here that are knocking Robert for saying Intelligent Design has no scientific basis, you guys are liars and fools! You don't represent the mainstream scientific community. You don't speak on behalf of the global scientific community! Many of you claim to have "scientific evidence" on your side. But you don't!! You have nothing to back up your claim that living creatures evolve!

You are in a very small minority of the global population of Earth that does not believe in a creator God of some kind! So remember that!! Darwinists and Evolutionists are very much a minority group of people!! Me and Robert are part of the majority who know with 100% scientific confidence that God exists! Me and Robert know this because we read the Bible and we know the truth!

John.


They do have scientific evidence, John. They really do--for some things.

I respect your belief. I do not believe--in the same way, as you do. However, no matter how anyone looks at it, even me, you are entitled to your belief.

I don't look in the Bible for code. I don't believe that there is a code in it other then the content of the text of it. I believe in a Triune God. Who, from time to time---His guiding Hand that is Intelligent, changes His creation as He see's fit.

Terms and word usage. They know and so should you. When I speak of Darwinism I speak of Neo-Darwinism. When I speak of Evolution I speak that chance plays no part in it, it is guided, not Natural Selection. (Random) They have no real hard proof of either point.

I do know the Bible well. This you have correct. We just look at it different ways.
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Message 1286141 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 4:26:34 UTC - in response to Message 1286139.  

They do have scientific evidence, John. They really do--for some things.

I respect your belief. I do not believe--in the same way, as you do. However, no matter how anyone looks at it, even me, you are entitled to your belief.

I don't look in the Bible for code. I don't believe that there is a code in it other then the content of the text of it. I believe in a Triune God. Who, from time to time---His guiding Hand that is Intelligent, changes His creation as He see's fit.

Terms and word usage. They know and so should you. When I speak of Darwinism I speak of Neo-Darwinism. When I speak of Evolution I speak that chance plays no part in it, it is guided, not Natural Selection. (Random) They have no real hard proof of either point.

I do know the Bible well. This you have correct. We just look at it different ways.

Robert,
Ever heard the phrase "united we stand, divided we fall".

Robert i won't defend you again. Your on your own my friend. But i wish you the very best of luck.

John.
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Message 1286150 - Posted: 21 Sep 2012, 4:55:59 UTC
Last modified: 21 Sep 2012, 4:59:37 UTC

Intelligent Design uses history to as a science method. A principle called uninformationism. Today, is the 'key' to the past if you like. They begin by looking at how an intelligent agent works. The observations made in them intelligent agents are changed into positive predictions of what scientists should find in nature if design was involved in any given natural object.

Then they use the observations by constructing testable predictions about the type of information , properties, they expect to find in nature if a intelligent agent was at work in the design. In particular, the theory predicts that they will find large amounts of specified complexity in natural objects. They then take their theory to look at the historical record. They then perform experimental investigations to test those predictions. This tells them whether the very same informational properties exist in nature Telling us all the explanation is by design--or not.

Quoting Dr. Stephen C Meyer. "by invoking design to explain the origin of new biological information, contemporary design theorists are not positing an arbitrary explanatory element unmotivated by consideration of the evidence. Instead, they are positing an entity possessing precisely the attributes and causal powers that the phenomenon in question requires as a condition of its production and explanation."

Its late. I will give specific arguments at a later date. Perhaps tomorrow.
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Message boards : Politics : What did God do before creation?


 
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