What did God do before creation?


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Profile Robert Waite
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Message 1284380 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 3:52:46 UTC - in response to Message 1284210.


So, what is it that you really want? Argument till I lose my temper and get kicked off again? Kicked off for the something that everyone else does yet they still remain? Are you all keeping score or something? What is it that you really want. Don't B.S. me Robert, you can't B.S. me. I see right through all of you. Transparent as cheap toilet paper most of you are.


So just answer the question without insults and cuss words.
It's a simple question.

If no one can give a reasonable answer, there's no need to get dramatic by blowing a hissy-fit.
Science has no answer for what went on before expansion. The standard theory is that time began with the big bang and there was nothing before. I'm not taking that fact as a personal insult. I can live with the admission that not all is known at this time.

I just want to know what religion has for an answer.
Did God exist before creation? If so, what the hell was he doing with his time?

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Message 1284386 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 4:31:11 UTC - in response to Message 1284380.


So, what is it that you really want? Argument till I lose my temper and get kicked off again? Kicked off for the something that everyone else does yet they still remain? Are you all keeping score or something? What is it that you really want. Don't B.S. me Robert, you can't B.S. me. I see right through all of you. Transparent as cheap toilet paper most of you are.


So just answer the question without insults and cuss words.
It's a simple question.

If no one can give a reasonable answer, there's no need to get dramatic by blowing a hissy-fit.
Science has no answer for what went on before expansion. The standard theory is that time began with the big bang and there was nothing before. I'm not taking that fact as a personal insult. I can live with the admission that not all is known at this time.

I just want to know what religion has for an answer.
Did God exist before creation? If so, what the hell was he doing with his time?


I answered your question, Robert. The Bible quotes I posted that you short quoted me on.

I'll do you one even better and answer the tag that you have below...

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist."
Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara


James, chapter 2

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,

16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?

17 So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.

Profile Robert Waite
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Message 1284389 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 4:49:36 UTC - in response to Message 1284386.


I answered your question, Robert. The Bible quotes I posted that you short quoted me on.



OK, if that's good enough an answer for you, so be it.
I just cannot fathom a sentient being existing as a singularity (not the black hole type) for the eternity before creation.

Alone forever in the blackness of nothingness, could even a god remain sane?



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I fight them because they are fascists.
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Message 1284390 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 4:52:16 UTC - in response to Message 1284210.
Last modified: 16 Sep 2012, 4:55:59 UTC

.....You cannot even tell us how we was created. You cannot prove that all of this "creation" was by chance. You cannot tell me with proof that there is no God. You cannot prove anything that you claim yet you want me to believe that you are rational and sincere in your questions....

And that is the problem with these discussions. Neither side can provide "scientific grade" proof to prove themselves right or the other wrong. Therefore the discussion just keeps going round in circles.

Lack of proof "for" is not proof "against" and visa versa. And "proof" from only one biased source is not valid.

There is as much evidence to prove the existence of Krishna as there is Yahweh or the random coalescing of chemicals to form proteins.

This is a matter of faith not facts. Lets just live and let live without getting our undies twisted.

T.A.

Message 1284396 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 5:45:42 UTC

Before Creation, GOD did a lot of Design Work. Designing takes a lot of thought. Lots of Rough Drafts. All in The Virtual Mind and on Virtual Paper.

Once GOD produced a Design which would Create A Universe, HE got to Work. Prototypes First. Then as GOD produced A More Stable Model of Universe, HE was ready for The Big Bang. The Real Thing Hubble is seeing today.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

Shocka Locka BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

GOD using Perseverance, Intelligence and Creativity had his Universe.

We Like what we see when looking up into the Night Sky. This Earth is pretty Dang Good Stuff.

GOD did a Good Job. Good Work.

GOD Created An Intelligent Design.

EarthGoesBoooooooooooooooooooomWithBigBangFromSunFourthAngel
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Message 1284474 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 14:55:06 UTC - in response to Message 1284396.

Before Creation, GOD did a lot of Design Work. Designing takes a lot of thought. Lots of Rough Drafts. All in The Virtual Mind and on Virtual Paper.

Once GOD produced a Design which would Create A Universe, HE got to Work. Prototypes First. Then as GOD produced A More Stable Model of Universe, HE was ready for The Big Bang. The Real Thing Hubble is seeing today.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

Shocka Locka BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

GOD using Perseverance, Intelligence and Creativity had his Universe.

We Like what we see when looking up into the Night Sky. This Earth is pretty Dang Good Stuff.

GOD did a Good Job. Good Work.

GOD Created An Intelligent Design.

EarthGoesBoooooooooooooooooooomWithBigBangFromSunFourthAngel


Yes, yes He did. You do indeed get it for the most part. (smile)

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Message 1284492 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 16:01:31 UTC
Last modified: 16 Sep 2012, 16:12:54 UTC

If God was supposed to be the creator of the Universe, then what is our purpose in all of this?

We are still locked to our earth and slowly eating up the resources which our planet is able to feed more than 8 billion human beings.

As a civilization we have become technically oriented in nature. We strive for the best in all fields, including computer technology, medicine and building of houses and ships (not forgetting nuclear submarines equipped with strategic nuclear missiles which became to costly for everyone to handle).

All this development and innovation comes at a cost as mentioned, but there definitely are several advantages and revenues being returned back in return.

Right now our eyes have become turned towards the skies because that there are resources existing out there which are not available here on earth.

Pure medicines can be obtained in microgravity, mining can be obtained by means of established colonies on the moon and even Ceres and Vesta as well. The problem is weightlessness and lack of both oxygen and water. We think that there exists water on the moon, but is that enough for us to survive on?

So in the end there are both possibilities and opportunities around, but not without a cost when it comes to sacrificing of lives, but also when it comes to the time and burden when it comes to innovation and maintenance. It is not always that easy to cope with all factors that may be present.

Definitely it is hard to believe in angels when everything around us is natural disasters and other events which does not do us anything good. But does such events make things change at times? Does randomness create new things from old things making everything change all the time? Where are the constants in all of this?

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Message 1284499 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 16:20:01 UTC - in response to Message 1284396.

Before Creation, GOD did a lot of Design Work. Designing takes a lot of thought. Lots of Rough Drafts. All in The Virtual Mind and on Virtual Paper.

Once GOD produced a Design which would Create A Universe, HE got to Work. Prototypes First. Then as GOD produced A More Stable Model of Universe, HE was ready for The Big Bang. The Real Thing Hubble is seeing today.



So there's at least two of you that believe God is not perfect and infallible.
He had to build rough drafts and make numerous revisions.

That doesn't fit with the God they told me about in Sunday School, but knowing that God isn't perfect somehow makes him seem more human.

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I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Message 1284569 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 19:10:39 UTC
Last modified: 16 Sep 2012, 20:07:28 UTC

From a pure theological perspective, it is possible to conclude that we are a product of "a picture which is defined or created by means of God"?

Meaning with that - is that what makes us possibly unique in the Universe?

Do we happen to know about anything else which we may be able to know about or compare against?

If you happen to be a "believer", of course - and not an agnostic or atheist.

Our day, if I may quote Robert Waite, is not always perfect. We are living in an "infallible" world.

Still, nature is defined by means of both randomness as well as symmetry and perfectionism which is known to be existing. Nature is created by laws and these laws are being sought to be explained by means of mathematics as well as physics. By means of doing it this way, we are assuming that these two approaches are fundamental and can never be "infallible".

Did Albert Einstein perhaps come to the same conclusion? His statement was that "God never plays with dices".

However, recent scientific work may be showing us that this may not be true.

So, the question then becomes as follows: Is symmetry and perfectionism only one way of expressing or defining something which otherwise is not the same, namely randomness and chaos? When do we see chaos and when do we see symmetry? Is orderly chaos a term which might be used (take spiral galaxy NGC 488 as an example of thought symmetry) about certain kinds of objects?

BTW: Also better to say ...mining can be achieved... Also order rather than perfectionism.

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Message 1284598 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 21:02:25 UTC - in response to Message 1284499.
Last modified: 16 Sep 2012, 21:07:32 UTC

So there's at least two of you that believe God is not perfect and infallible.
He had to build rough drafts and make numerous revisions.

That doesn't fit with the God they told me about in Sunday School, but knowing that God isn't perfect somehow makes him seem more human.

If you ask humans about God actions, thoughts or whatever, you will always get antropomorphic biased answers, Those answers might be right (or not), but definatelly biased...

Edit: even the question is biased, you are assuming that for God there is such thing of "before" and "after" as if God were experiencing time in the same way as we do...
____________

Message 1284599 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 21:07:14 UTC - in response to Message 1284396.
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 15:33:56 UTC

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Message 1284614 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 21:38:55 UTC - in response to Message 1284599.

LOL, Oh Great you are with Fourth who was Dull.
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Message 1284626 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 22:15:40 UTC
Last modified: 16 Sep 2012, 22:32:43 UTC

Oh, there are some people here who are either agnostics or atheists.

But I have not heard too many complaints here regarding the threads themselves. Almost none are mine. I did not start up too many here.

Shouldn't it be just that easy to assume that everything which is supposed to be the Universe since its creation (the big bang) are based on random events or randomness itself?

Rather by means of defining randomness a little broader or different in context.
We think of randomness and chaos as defined by means of the laws (if any) of mathematics and physics.

Random events could be explained by means of trying to explain or predict something which can not be calculated or predicted before it actually happens. Before the big bang, nothing of what we today assume for granted (like mass, energy, space, gravity and time) was not supposed to exist. The Universe is thought of as being created out of nothing, meaning that it was being created by something or someone.

Again, it is easy to assume Intelligent Design (by definition). Predictability vs. non-predictability. Everything is so easy to understand and comprehend, still nothing is granted, despite everything being assumed as being based on given rules when it comes to mathematics and physics.

In the world of physics you are not supposed to be able to determine the exact position or characteristics of a given elementary particle. This is because the observation of the particle (even indirectly) is affecting its same physical characteristics.

The laws of the Universe are not Newtonian laws. They are best explained by the laws of Quantum Theory. Einstein's special relativity theory as well as general relativity theory is mostly dealing with the subject of time and the problems which are related to the space/time curvature. They do not explain the laws of the Universe in the same way as the Quantum Theory is doing. Einstein did not like the Quantum Theory at all. Probably this was his weak point if in anyway the Quantum Theory should be believed at all.

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Message 1284650 - Posted: 17 Sep 2012, 0:04:45 UTC

What if God IS the dice--and--order, at the same time. What looks like chaos is order and what looks like order is chaos. Apparently it takes both.

Does it make a difference?

We can't even define what time IS, we mark it, that's all. So, indeed, what IS a day for God? Could be 7 divided by 13.7 billion years.

I'm going to have to quote msattler ..."LOL, I should think the accomplishment would speak for itself."

Here, let me twist your minds a little more---The God Particle would be a lot like pixels on your TV set. We live inside of a 3D TV. And in effect we own nothing but our mass-less souls.

Point is, it makes no sense to deny what you see with your own eyes. Design. And there is so much of it that it cannot be chance. And since it cannot be chance, there must be a DESIGNER. It also makes no sense to deny any possibly up to and including the one have just given you. It is NOT science when you come to the table with preconceived notions. Bottom line...

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Message 1284655 - Posted: 17 Sep 2012, 0:28:09 UTC - in response to Message 1284650.
Last modified: 17 Sep 2012, 1:09:47 UTC

What if God IS the dice--and--order, at the same time. What looks like chaos is order and what looks like order is chaos. Apparently it takes both.

Does it make a difference?

We can't even define what time IS, we mark it, that's all. So, indeed, what IS a day for God? Could be 7 divided by 13.7 billion years.

I'm going to have to quote msattler ..."LOL, I should think the accomplishment would speak for itself."

Here, let me twist your minds a little more---The God Particle would be a lot like pixels on your TV set. We live inside of a 3D TV. And in effect we own nothing but our mass-less souls.

Point is, it makes no sense to deny what you see with your own eyes. Design. And there is so much of it that it cannot be chance. And since it cannot be chance, there must be a DESIGNER. It also makes no sense to deny any possibly up to and including the one have just given you. It is NOT science when you come to the table with preconceived notions. Bottom line...


ID, your hypotheses is just that, no evidence to turn it into a theory and as a counter point random events are observed commonly which elevates the random thing to theory.
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Message 1284657 - Posted: 17 Sep 2012, 0:38:41 UTC
Last modified: 17 Sep 2012, 0:39:40 UTC

Who is God??

Answer - Straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ, God's Son;
"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"

Read it yourself;
John 14:9; http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A9&version=NIV

John.
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Message 1284663 - Posted: 17 Sep 2012, 1:13:12 UTC - in response to Message 1284657.

Who is God??

Answer - Straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ, God's Son;
"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"

Read it yourself;
John 14:9; http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A9&version=NIV

John.

Johnny, quoting a book only proves a degree of literacy not a fact.
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Message 1284666 - Posted: 17 Sep 2012, 1:20:36 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 15:33:37 UTC

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Message 1284667 - Posted: 17 Sep 2012, 1:34:03 UTC - in response to Message 1284666.
Last modified: 17 Sep 2012, 1:37:06 UTC

Guy, your beliefs are what they are, I think a major problem comes up when that sort of thing is being taught in science classes rather than philosophy classes or being used as a basis to establish laws which I am supposed to obey.
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