So, what do we, as a nation, do about Obama?

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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1281674 - Posted: 8 Sep 2012, 22:07:04 UTC - in response to Message 1281628.  

Honest question. How many slackers should a high income person carry?

Gary, is the Wall Mart clerk a slacker? Most of them pay little or no income tax.
If you say, yes they are slackers and should get more productive jobs then who will be there to enable your shopping?

I see you are incapable of giving an answer to the question.

Funny that you should mention "export all manufacturing jobs to China Corp." Anyone who enables them to function is part of the problem.

Now why do local governments bend over backwards, butter up, condemn square blocks and give it to China Box Co to sell stuff? Rip down a blue collar manufacturing plant and replace it with a minimum wage dead end service job plant? Why? A couple pennies of sales tax revenue? Government Greed is Good!


Here is a plan. Base ad valorem tax rates for retailers on the percent of USA product being sold. Sell 100% USA merchandise and have a nice zero tax rate. Sell 100% China merchandise and have a 100% tax rate. Think that might stimulate the American economy?


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Message 1281687 - Posted: 8 Sep 2012, 22:31:53 UTC - in response to Message 1281674.  

Gary, you are correct, I do not know how many?

You do hit on a big problem with free trade that is worthy of a thread of it's own, but free trade does produce more goods and services. The thing is distribution of the profits this creates has been mostly one sided.

Calling the Wall Mart clerk an enabler of job exports is wrong they are merely leaves in the wind.

A point of order, I did not mention China.

As for the Tax on imports, I'm pretty sure it is not legal under GATT and other world wide and local disruptions would be huge. In the long run it may not be bad {IMO it probably is bad}, but in the long run we are all dead.
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Message 1281713 - Posted: 8 Sep 2012, 23:18:34 UTC - in response to Message 1281619.  

Romney is proud of the "fact" he paid 13% of his "taxable income"(what that means between me and him are VERY different matters.. what even qualifies as his income is highly suspect.). The top 10% pay 70%? O REEEaaallly.. 70% of what, because it is certainly not of what they made.

End the games.

Of what? Of the total tax revenue. Another way of saying it is the top 10% pay their share and cover another 6 slackers each.

Is that ratio fair?

Honest question. How many slackers should a high income person carry?

I see.. so the person working 60 hours a week to try and stay above the poverty line is a "slacker".. and the ones milking companies and shipping jobs overseas for millions, 20-30 hours a week and destroying companies is paying their "fair share" at 0-13%?

Sorry, sell it elsewhere. This 5 and dime is not buying it.
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Message 1281729 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 0:17:39 UTC - in response to Message 1281720.  

Romney's 3rd point in his acceptance speech:

"Third, we will make trade work for America by forging new trade agreements. And when nations cheat in trade, there will be unmistakable consequences."

What's Obama's plan to quit shipping jobs overseas?

Sincerely and Lovingly,

Guy the Great!

Guy a simple change the tax laws to treat offshore profits the same as domestic profits would address that issue.
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Message 1281736 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 1:00:29 UTC - in response to Message 1281713.  

Romney is proud of the "fact" he paid 13% of his "taxable income"(what that means between me and him are VERY different matters.. what even qualifies as his income is highly suspect.). The top 10% pay 70%? O REEEaaallly.. 70% of what, because it is certainly not of what they made.

End the games.

Of what? Of the total tax revenue. Another way of saying it is the top 10% pay their share and cover another 6 slackers each.

Is that ratio fair?

Honest question. How many slackers should a high income person carry?

I see.. so the person working 60 hours a week to try and stay above the poverty line is a "slacker".. and the ones milking companies and shipping jobs overseas for millions, 20-30 hours a week and destroying companies is paying their "fair share" at 0-13%?

Sorry, sell it elsewhere. This 5 and dime is not buying it.

Since you are unable to give an answer, then you must think that everyone should pay exactly the same amount. I'm so glad we finally understand your position. Because if you felt differently you would have an answer. You can't set a tax policy without an answer, so the question is very real.

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Message 1281742 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 1:11:52 UTC - in response to Message 1281736.  

Gary, since you seem to advocate a flat tax, implicit in in that is you deny the concept of diminishing marginal utility.
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Message 1281744 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 1:15:20 UTC - in response to Message 1281687.  

Gary, you are correct, I do not know how many?

I know, and the nation needs consensus on this issue to more forward or it will be as useful as the term "West Bank," where one side sees it a couple miles and the other all the way to the end of earth.

You do hit on a big problem with free trade that is worthy of a thread of it's own, but free trade does produce more goods and services. The thing is distribution of the profits this creates has been mostly one sided.

Calling the Wall Mart clerk an enabler of job exports is wrong they are merely leaves in the wind.

In the moral question, they are enabling. Ask yourself, if no one would, could they exist?

A point of order, I did not mention China.

Correct, but Walmart is China, I just didn't use their name but it is where they get a large amount of the merchandise they sell.

As for the Tax on imports, I'm pretty sure it is not legal under GATT and other world wide and local disruptions would be huge. In the long run it may not be bad {IMO it probably is bad}, but in the long run we are all dead.

Haven't read GATT, but as a property tax -- realize you may have thought I meant a excise tax with my choice of words -- I suspect that isn't covered. We aren't taxing the good, which is what Trade Tariff's are about, we are taxing the seller based on his choice of goods to sell.

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Message 1281745 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 1:15:32 UTC - in response to Message 1281538.  

submit to a nameless, faceless government run by people who you give total control of your life over

Already there, and been there for a long long long time.

No Matter Who Is Prez. No matter who is in Congress. No matter what party.

WillItMatterToTheSun?NoFourthAngel


You're finally starting to get it!
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Message 1281747 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 1:22:07 UTC - in response to Message 1281662.  

You would think a belief in the possibility of extra-terrestrial life and science couldn't coexist in the same mind as religious anti-science bigotry.


What has NOT BELIEVING in The Communist-Socialist/DEMLib Doctrine of The Peace Prize Winning Messiah of BlahBlahBlah got to do with Science?

Science is a Government Grant Sucking Machine creating More Entropy for The Treasury than many of the Give Aways now existing for The Regular People, and producing many times far less for Dollar Spent.

Real Science is found in the R & D Labs of The Hated Corporations most Communist-Socialist/DEMLibs buy their Products from. And The Labs at Universities and Colleges, who quickly Incorporate and Monetize any Science comming out of them.

I wouldn't want to live on a Profs' Salary. That is why a lot of Profs trade The Markets. hehehe

TheScienceOfTheSunFourthAngel


Wow you really told me....

Your on your own little hateful planet.
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Message 1281749 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 1:23:57 UTC - in response to Message 1281742.  

Gary, since you seem to advocate a flat tax, implicit in in that is you deny the concept of diminishing marginal utility.

I suggest you go back and read my posts where I advocated more tax brackets with higher rates. However I know math and know that won't solve the problem as there just isn't enough being made in those top earners to pay off the debt. You also will see that I want to bring back income averaging so the individual that wins a lotto ticket actually gets to keep the cash.

This inability to pay off the debt, even with a 100% tax rate, is why we must come up with the number of how many slackers does a rich person support. Once we know that number we can set a tax policy. That number will mean some people who now don't pay income tax will have to pay going forward, but we already spent the money and it is time to pay the piper.

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Message 1281904 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 14:18:10 UTC

@ Gary C
So I can judge your posts more accurately can you please clarify your use of the word "slacker" ?

In your terms, is a "slacker"
a) A long term welfare recipient (unwed mother, invalid pensioner etc.)?

b) One of the people thrown out of work by the GFC and unable to find work since (i.e. unemployed for <4 years) ?

c) A person working for the minimum hourly rate who does not make enough to meet the minimum tax threshold ?

d) Other ?

e) All of the above ?

No sarcasm intended, I would really like to know where you are coming from.

T.A.
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Message 1281910 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 14:54:55 UTC - in response to Message 1281904.  
Last modified: 9 Sep 2012, 15:09:51 UTC

@ Gary C
So I can judge your posts more accurately can you please clarify your use of the word "slacker" ?

In your terms, is a "slacker"
a) A long term welfare recipient (unwed mother, invalid pensioner etc.)?

b) One of the people thrown out of work by the GFC and unable to find work since (i.e. unemployed for <4 years) ?

c) A person working for the minimum hourly rate who does not make enough to meet the minimum tax threshold ?

d) Other ?

e) All of the above ?

No sarcasm intended, I would really like to know where you are coming from.

T.A.


From what I've seen, Gary thinks that anyone who is working poor is a slacker. Gary seems to think that anyone who is democratic in the least is a slacker. Gary seems to think that all democrats are unemployed welfare recipients. What Gary should open his mind to, is that those slackers he refers to are the types that are not politically minded and voting is the last thing on their agenda.

He sure does love referring to those slackers. I know the people he means. They are from my generation and the next generation after me. Half of my peers depending on socio-economic background, have never really held long term stable jobs. But luckily for Gary I can promise that most of that group also does not vote.

It's gotta be kind of difficult to explain the gray area in the middle, to someone who sees only in black and white.

Personally, I take offense to the slacker comments, as a young democrat that has worked for the same company for over a decade. At times I have found my income similar to a Mcdonalds worker (but still I remained dedicated to my job), however when work is available I don't hesitate to do 60-70 hours in a week. But I guess during those periods when there were only 20 hours of work per week available I'm considered a slacker too by Gary, cause after all it must have been my own laziness, and not the economy.

And point on topic: I have not had 20hr weeks at work since Bush's office, and into the first year of Obama's. From Obama on, I have had steady work.
#resist
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Message 1281965 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 17:19:39 UTC - in response to Message 1281904.  

@ Gary C
So I can judge your posts more accurately can you please clarify your use of the word "slacker" ?

No sarcasm intended, I would really like to know where you are coming from.

T.A.

T.A. Thanks for asking and not assuming.

Slacker: Noun
2) A lazy person.

But perhaps "leech" would be a better word in the context as others seem to want to place words in my mouth that I did not speak.

Leech: Noun
2) A follower who hangs around a host (without benefit to the host) in hope of gain or advantage.

Now that I think about it some of the leeches may be quite energetic at being a leech; nothing lazy about that.

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Message 1281972 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 17:29:29 UTC - in response to Message 1281910.  

And point on topic: I have not had 20hr weeks at work since Bush's office, and into the first year of Obama's. From Obama on, I have had steady work.

Yes, the Democratic tax plan made corporations get rid of all the unnecessary human resource units that Republican tax stimulus plans made it more cost effective to hire in the first place. You know, those tax breaks for corporations that are so evil. Glad you weren't classed as unnecessary.

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Message 1281978 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 17:34:29 UTC - in response to Message 1281965.  

@ Gary C
So I can judge your posts more accurately can you please clarify your use of the word "slacker" ?

No sarcasm intended, I would really like to know where you are coming from.

T.A.

T.A. Thanks for asking and not assuming.

Slacker: Noun
2) A lazy person.

But perhaps "leech" would be a better word in the context as others seem to want to place words in my mouth that I did not speak.

Leech: Noun
2) A follower who hangs around a host (without benefit to the host) in hope of gain or advantage.

Now that I think about it some of the leeches may be quite energetic at being a leech; nothing lazy about that.

Where are you getting your data from? What percentage of the American people are "Slackers"?
How do you define a slacker (I would like a concrete example please)?
How do you know whether someone is a slacker or someone who is in need? Is it just based on the amount of money they have? i.e. Rich person = not a slacker, poor person = slacker?
Do you think that only rich people work hard?
What about the people who work 3 jobs for minimum wage and still need help from the state?
Are you aware that companies like Walmart are subsidised by the state because they pay their workers such a low wage that a large proportion of them are entitled to state benefits?
Are you aware that companies like Walmart deliberately don't give their workers full time work so that they won't have to give them benefits? This is merely "good" business and helps increase their profits. However the state has to pick up the slack so that these WORKERS (Not slackers. They work very hard) can have enough money to actually LIVE on.

So please explain who these slackers are and provide data to back up your assertion.

Thank you.
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Message 1282026 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 20:31:22 UTC - in response to Message 1281978.  
Last modified: 9 Sep 2012, 20:33:24 UTC

So please explain who these slackers are and provide data to back up your assertion.

Thank you.

I haven't made an assertion. I asked a question, or request for data. Some persons took insult that I dared seek the truth.

Honest question. How many slackers should a high income person carry?

But we'll change that to read: How many leeches should a high income person carry?
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Message 1282028 - Posted: 9 Sep 2012, 20:43:47 UTC - in response to Message 1281978.  

Are you aware that companies like Walmart are subsidised by the state because they pay their workers such a low wage that a large proportion of them are entitled to state benefits?
Are you aware that companies like Walmart deliberately don't give their workers full time work so that they won't have to give them benefits? This is merely "good" business and helps increase their profits. However the state has to pick up the slack so that these WORKERS (Not slackers. They work very hard) can have enough money to actually LIVE on.

You are almost thinking like a Republican, but you need to go to the final step. Trust me it is the perfection of evil, called the fiduciary duty.

Walmart not only needs employees it needs customers. What a better way to generate more profits than give a tax break for every child a couple has. More customers. More workers looking for the same job to keep wages low. Yes, more babies screws up the planet with more CO2 burned, but short term profits come first. Now you know the real reason for the right to life movement.

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Message boards : Politics : So, what do we, as a nation, do about Obama?


 
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