MSI 760GM-E51 (FX) Mainboard no good for BOINC; can/will fry at 100% use (admitted by manufacturer)


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Message 1276819 - Posted: 28 Aug 2012, 23:18:02 UTC
Last modified: 28 Aug 2012, 23:24:10 UTC

For mainboards, MSI has firmly joined ECS on my No Buy List.

As documented in this thread I went through hell getting a new cruncher going. It ended up blowing three boards, and when these boards blow, they take the CPU with them, in this case, three AMD FX-8120 8-core CPU's... such a sad waste. On the third time, I concluded that at least this make of MSI board is a lemon and got my money back rather than RMAing for another lemon. The Gigabyte I replaced it with is doing just fine. I did switch the CPU to a 6-core as well, fearing another blowout.

I couldn't understand why, as my temps. were all good (50-56C for the CPU, case about 40C, GPU about 47C) when they fried. The PSU was a high-end Thermaltake 650W and the system was only drawing 330W. I replaced the PSU twice and swapped out all parts not from the same retailer, so that I'd be able to claim a refund if required.

Well, today, while RMAing yet another MSI mainboard... sigh... I happened to load MSI's 760GM-E51 (FX) page. Here's a screenshot of it in case they change it:



Notice the part with the blue background: "Due to power design specifications, we strongly advise against running heavy burn in tools on this mainboard to protect your system from heat damage."

So, in other words, the manufacturer has stated that this mainboard will burn out if run at 100%! I've never seen anything like this from any other mainboard manufacturer. Boards are supposed to be run at 100% for years with proper system cooling. This is ridiculous.

And before saying that BOINC did it and home systems weren't designed for 100% utilization for months: one of the three burnouts happened in only five minutes of 100%, and multi-core optimized video encoders can push a system to 100% and keep it there for hours. Is video encoding now forbidden too?

I hope that this helps steer someone away from the very bad experience I've had with this product.
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Message 1276831 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 0:40:45 UTC

MSI is already off my shoping list for life.
The G33M FI is what did it for me, (the northbridge crashes with more than 3.3GB of ram)
I am shure many many satisfried cursetomers of MSI will tell of how reliable their kit is, it did not work for us.

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Message 1276840 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 1:46:31 UTC - in response to Message 1276819.

For mainboards, MSI has firmly joined ECS on my No Buy List.

As documented in this thread I went through hell getting a new cruncher going. It ended up blowing three boards, and when these boards blow, they take the CPU with them, in this case, three AMD FX-8120 8-core CPU's... such a sad waste. On the third time, I concluded that at least this make of MSI board is a lemon and got my money back rather than RMAing for another lemon. The Gigabyte I replaced it with is doing just fine. I did switch the CPU to a 6-core as well, fearing another blowout.

I couldn't understand why, as my temps. were all good (50-56C for the CPU, case about 40C, GPU about 47C) when they fried. The PSU was a high-end Thermaltake 650W and the system was only drawing 330W. I replaced the PSU twice and swapped out all parts not from the same retailer, so that I'd be able to claim a refund if required.

Well, today, while RMAing yet another MSI mainboard... sigh... I happened to load MSI's 760GM-E51 (FX) page. Here's a screenshot of it in case they change it:



Notice the part with the blue background: "Due to power design specifications, we strongly advise against running heavy burn in tools on this mainboard to protect your system from heat damage."

So, in other words, the manufacturer has stated that this mainboard will burn out if run at 100%! I've never seen anything like this from any other mainboard manufacturer. Boards are supposed to be run at 100% for years with proper system cooling. This is ridiculous.

And before saying that BOINC did it and home systems weren't designed for 100% utilization for months: one of the three burnouts happened in only five minutes of 100%, and multi-core optimized video encoders can push a system to 100% and keep it there for hours. Is video encoding now forbidden too?

I hope that this helps steer someone away from the very bad experience I've had with this product.


Same warning on my 870-G54, but it ran just fine until I decided to go to GPU only.


http://www.msi.com/product/mb/870A-G54--FX-.html
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Message 1276983 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 11:07:12 UTC
Last modified: 29 Aug 2012, 11:19:24 UTC

... Notice the part with the blue background: "Due to power design specifications, we strongly advise against running heavy burn in tools on this mainboard to protect your system from heat damage."

So, in other words, the manufacturer has stated that this mainboard will burn out if run at 100%! I've never seen anything like this from any other mainboard manufacturer. Boards are supposed to be run at 100% for years with proper system cooling. This is ridiculous. ...

I agree. Ridiculous.

That also suggests that system is unusable for ANY/ALL normal usage. The whole point of good software is to maximise the utilisation of the system hardware to get whatever job done as quickly as possible. Hence, that 'notice' suggests that any normal use software could also similarly 'do damage'!

And for added farce, they offer an "Over-Clocking function" for that motherboard... Really?! So that you can run beyond "100%"?...


Well... I'm gob-smacked that a computer industry manufacturer would put such a damaging notice on their products. My opinion is that is simply not fit for purpose.

I'm surprised the reviewers have not torn it to shreds...


In contrast, pretty much all my servers run at 100%, 24/7, for years at a time without issue. Various systems have Boinc running as a minimum priority hardware test that very occasionally usefully picks up other problems. Never had any 'burn out' on any system after many years.

Unbelievable to claim that "thoust must not approach 100%" for computer hardware!

Happy fast crunchin',
Martin
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Message 1276994 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 11:18:22 UTC - in response to Message 1276840.

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/870A-G54--FX-.html

• Superb Stability: Military Class Components
• OC Genie: Easy Overclocking Technology
• Unlock CPU Core: Unlock hidden CPU core and potential
• USB 3.0 & SATA 6Gb/s
• Lossless 24bit/192kHz HD Audio



Words fail me.

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Message 1276998 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 11:25:57 UTC - in response to Message 1276983.
Last modified: 29 Aug 2012, 11:33:02 UTC

... Notice the part with the blue background: "Due to power design specifications, we strongly advise against running heavy burn in tools on this mainboard to protect your system from heat damage."

So, in other words, the manufacturer has stated that this mainboard will burn out if run at 100%! I've never seen anything like this from any other mainboard manufacturer. Boards are supposed to be run at 100% for years with proper system cooling. This is ridiculous. ...

I agree. Ridiculous.

That also suggests that system is unusable for ANY/ALL normal usage. The whole point of good software is to maximise the utilisation of the system hardware to get whatever job done as quickly as possible. Hence, that 'notice' suggests that any normal use software could also similarly 'do damage'!

Well... I'm gob-smacked that a computer industry manufacturer would put such a damaging notice on their products. My opinion is that is simply not fit for purpose.

I'm surprised the reviewers have not torn it to shreds...


In contrast, pretty much all my servers run at 100%, 24/7, for years at a time without issue. Various systems have Boinc running as a minimum priority hardware test that very occasionally usefully picks up other problems. Never had any 'burn out' on any system after many years.

Unbelievable to claim that "thoust must not approach 100%" for computer hardware!

Happy fast crunchin',
Martin


---[Snipped]---
Notice the part with the blue background: "Due to power design specifications, we strongly advise against running heavy burn in tools on this mainboard to protect your system from heat damage."


---[snipped]---
Couldn't agree more, besides what is a heavy burn-in tool?

All systems I use to run BOINC are running at least at 100%.....
In most(all) cases, CPU is OCed. Memory is also running at 110%.

This is truely outrageous...........

Richard beat me to it ;-)


Superb Stability: Military Class Components
• OC Genie: Easy Overclocking Technology
• Unlock CPU Core: Unlock hidden CPU core and potential
• USB 3.0 & SATA 6Gb/s
• Lossless 24bit/192kHz HD Audio


A contradiction!
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Message 1277098 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 14:57:20 UTC - in response to Message 1276994.

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/870A-G54--FX-.html


MSI's definition of Military Class: don't push it too hard, it may break. :D
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Message 1277114 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 15:34:54 UTC - in response to Message 1276831.
Last modified: 29 Aug 2012, 15:35:20 UTC

Wow; thanks for all the replies. So there are other MSI boards with the same ... er... issues.



Just amazing. I'm glad they don't make vehicles. Imagine "Please do not drive your MSI vehicle at the maximum legal speed, ie on a freeway, to prevent engine burnout."

satisfried cursetomers


I am so stealing that. :^)
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Message 1277225 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 18:06:21 UTC

Never owned a board from MSI...
I can now assure you this shall never be the case.

"What we have here is the finest motherboard our technology can offer you."
"Uhh, just don't push it too hard, folks."

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Message 1277231 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 18:23:50 UTC

Doing a bit of Googling I came up with this on another board when someone asked what the warning was all about.

They put that warning there now because last year when Gigabyte came out with their top mb an overclocker put a video up of one frying when it was brand new going into burn in.

The issue at the time was that during burn in or over clocking with the new digital vrm you could pull more power than the vrm could supply and cause them to burn out and catch fire. Some vendors had to run new bios code that would not let the end user pull more power then the mb could give. The parts on a mb are rated for some overclocking but in a burn in test your maxing out the ram..cpu..video and power supply at 100 percent max. Sometime doing that can be harder on the mb then what it rated for.


Apparently done so they don't get sued when someone tries what they saw on u-tube and gets injured.
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Message 1277234 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 18:29:58 UTC - in response to Message 1277231.

The parts on a mb are rated for some overclocking but in a burn in test your maxing out the ram..cpu..video and power supply at 100 percent max. Sometime doing that can be harder on the mb then what it rated for.

That makes about as much sense as MSIs warning not to use their motherboard for heavy work.

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Message 1277239 - Posted: 29 Aug 2012, 18:38:23 UTC - in response to Message 1277114.

I'm glad they don't make vehicles. Imagine "Please do not drive your MSI vehicle at the maximum legal speed, ie on a freeway, to prevent engine burnout."

Well, for the german market I'd understand such warning, since we have no speed limit on many freeways.
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Message 1277352 - Posted: 30 Aug 2012, 0:37:40 UTC - in response to Message 1277231.
Last modified: 30 Aug 2012, 0:38:07 UTC

... your maxing out the ram..cpu..video and power supply at 100 percent max. Sometime doing that can be harder on the mb then what it rated for. ...

In which case the motherboard (mainboard) is not fit for purpose.

So... MSI have compromised the spec so much that it doesn't work?!

For a car (automobile) analogy: That suggests that your wheels fall off if you were to ever drive near to the speed limit... Ridiculous!

I've bought MSI parts in the past and they have been fine. With that "do not run at 100%" warning, I will not be buying their parts again.

In my opinion, utter stupidity to cut the margins so close that the thing doesn't work!


Happy fast crunchin',
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Message 1277499 - Posted: 30 Aug 2012, 11:06:09 UTC

I agree, whatever happened to _overbuilding_ your product, to be able to handle whatever your customer should reasonably choose to throw at it? I mean, come on, a system not able to handle a burn in routine? As this gets around the web, it will certainly have an effect on thier sales. I can imagine other MB mfg's stepping in, such as ASUS, saying _Our_ systems are designed with the highest level components, and should be able to handle any load you can put on it. Talk about a selling point. Then again, if it's come to the point where a mfg has to say that, it's a pretty sad day in the PC hardware world.
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Message 1277535 - Posted: 30 Aug 2012, 13:09:48 UTC

Any motherboard that is pitched with mention of overclocking.......

• OC Genie: Easy Overclocking Technology
• Unlock CPU Core: Unlock hidden CPU core and potential

Has no excuse for not being built to handle what a user who would tinker with such setting could throw at it.

I don't know (or care) how many MSI models have the disclaimer attached, but they would have done better by redacting them and tossing them into that big recycling dumpster in the sky and starting over, rather than killing any reputation they may have had.
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Message 1277565 - Posted: 30 Aug 2012, 14:44:38 UTC - in response to Message 1277535.
Last modified: 30 Aug 2012, 14:47:24 UTC

I've been away for a day so I missed this one.


I wouldnt use that mobo just because it is out of date for the processor. Get a 970 or 990 chipset. that boards chipset is 2 generations old. Time to put a bit of money into an appropriate mobo
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Message 1278497 - Posted: 31 Aug 2012, 23:02:14 UTC

I owned one p68 MSI board that I got in a combo deal with my 2500k, I blew out the north bridge within 3 months. Bottom line you get what you pay for and I have noticed the MSI mother boards tend to be cheap cheap cheap.

I went and spent some money on an ASUS P8-Z68 mobo and couldn't be happier with it. Not to mention the user interface on the bios is awesome.

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Message 1280036 - Posted: 4 Sep 2012, 21:28:41 UTC

Apparently the MSI notes have been there since December of 2011. And they're still releasing new motherboards with the same notes? Are Micro-Star International really that desperate to go bust?

Note1:
"Due to some design limitation, this mainboards supports AM3+ CPUs with max 95W. Please refer to the CPU compatibility list for details."

Note2:
"due to power design specifications we strongly advise against running heavy burn in tools on this mainboard to protect your system from heat damage"

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Message 1280042 - Posted: 4 Sep 2012, 21:58:33 UTC - in response to Message 1280036.
Last modified: 4 Sep 2012, 21:59:06 UTC

I've never been interested in using MSI in the nearly 20yrs that I've been playing with PC parts as there's always been a better alternative available.

ASUS has always been my number 1 choice though lately I've been trying some of its sister company's products, ASRock, with very good results.

Cheers.
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Message 1281036 - Posted: 7 Sep 2012, 15:29:27 UTC
Last modified: 7 Sep 2012, 15:46:04 UTC

Yes, kind of ironic that on the same page that warns against running the board full at 100%, it also advertises how easy it makes it to run it >100%. This is a feature? Now our easy burnout switch can help you burn out your board faster and with less effort? Eagh.

I wrote a letter to the retailer (TigerDirect) describing my experiences, so I hope that it gets passed on. If a major retailer or two stop selling MSI boards because of unreliability, this can only be a good thing. I'm also flabbergasted that MSI would just put a silly caveat (which most buyers won't see until it's too late) up rather than doing the decent thing and recalling the boards to replace them with ones with proper components rated to 120% not 80%!

For my letter I searched all of the MSI boards that TigerDirect sells and managed to find four more with the same blue warning:

760GM-P21 (FX)
760GM-P23 (FX)
890FXA-GD70
970A-G45

Not like specifics matter to me anymore, but there they are. :^)
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