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Message 1274905 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 16:18:23 UTC

I hate to contribute to the constant negative news, but...more killings.
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Message 1274930 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 17:08:51 UTC

I just heard that news on the radio, so sad...I really wonder how a person gets it in his head to do such thing. We had the same thing going on here in Li├Ęge a couple of months ago.
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Message 1274966 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 18:31:06 UTC

Firearms, especially automatic firearms, should not be available to ordinary people, but this is a politically hot subject.That Norwegian guy, Breivik, who killed 77 young people has been sentenced to 21 years in jail, the maximum allowed in Norway, He just smiled.
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Message 1274975 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 19:13:14 UTC

From the description, this appears to be a one on one murder. Ex employee returns to "take revenge" on person who he believe got him laid off.

Whether it would have been as deadly if guns were not available is another question.

It seems some of the injured may have been hit by police bullets.
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Message 1275034 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 21:25:36 UTC - in response to Message 1274975.

Whether it would have been as deadly if guns were not available is another question.


Truly. Most certainly people wouldn't try using poisons or explosives. Only guns are deadly. A determined person will find a way to succeed at their goal.

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Message 1275038 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 21:33:01 UTC - in response to Message 1275034.

Whether it would have been as deadly if guns were not available is another question.


Truly. Most certainly people wouldn't try using poisons or explosives. Only guns are deadly. A determined person will find a way to succeed at their goal.

Yes, but guns are a special problem because of their instant reach. You can't kill a dozen people in a dozen seconds with a knife. After the first one, you would have to chase the rest.
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Message 1275042 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 21:50:10 UTC
Last modified: 24 Aug 2012, 21:50:36 UTC

Agreed. I've been around guns since I was little. I got my concealed weapons permit about 11 years ago, and renew it every 5 years per our state laws. I take self defense classes my friend does, and go out about every month and target shoot. I also am an avid hunter. Not everyone with a gun is a nut job. I got my permit for the simple fact of the stuff I hear on a daily basis with my job, being a 911/police/fire dispatcher. I hear things that is never released to media, that no one else would know unless its by word of mouth. I got it to protect my family and myself. Thats it. I carry daily, unless I'm at work. Movies, stores, getting gas, grocery shopping, its with me. A saying I've always lived by is I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I refuse to be a victim, I refuse to allow my family to become a victim. Like me or hate me, doesn't matter either way. If someone interested in shooting, I will gladly take them out to shoot at targets, go over gun safety, and help them learn. You don't, thats fine, I don't think of you any differently. We all have things we like and dislike.
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Message 1275050 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 22:01:40 UTC - in response to Message 1275042.

A saying I've always lived by is I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.


Fantastic motto.
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Message 1275057 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 22:09:35 UTC - in response to Message 1275038.

Whether it would have been as deadly if guns were not available is another question.


Truly. Most certainly people wouldn't try using poisons or explosives. Only guns are deadly. A determined person will find a way to succeed at their goal.

Yes, but guns are a special problem because of their instant reach. You can't kill a dozen people in a dozen seconds with a knife. After the first one, you would have to chase the rest.


No, but you can kill dozens of people with poisons or explosives, which I mentioned directly.

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Message 1275062 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 22:36:05 UTC - in response to Message 1275057.
Last modified: 24 Aug 2012, 22:36:42 UTC

Whether it would have been as deadly if guns were not available is another question.


Truly. Most certainly people wouldn't try using poisons or explosives. Only guns are deadly. A determined person will find a way to succeed at their goal.

Yes, but guns are a special problem because of their instant reach. You can't kill a dozen people in a dozen seconds with a knife. After the first one, you would have to chase the rest.


No, but you can kill dozens of people with poisons or explosives, which I mentioned directly.


But with poisons or explosives, it is possible that your target, in this case it seems one individual, might just escape. There are few better weapons for direct killing than a gun. Even the mass killers recently used guns to kill most of their victims.

Of course it's the chicken and egg situation here, if the bad guys didn't have guns or knives would the good guys need them to protect their families.

In the UK no one can legally own a gun to do that.
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Message 1275067 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 22:43:27 UTC - in response to Message 1275062.

Whether it would have been as deadly if guns were not available is another question.


Truly. Most certainly people wouldn't try using poisons or explosives. Only guns are deadly. A determined person will find a way to succeed at their goal.

Yes, but guns are a special problem because of their instant reach. You can't kill a dozen people in a dozen seconds with a knife. After the first one, you would have to chase the rest.


No, but you can kill dozens of people with poisons or explosives, which I mentioned directly.


But with poisons or explosives, it is possible that your target, in this case it seems one individual, might just escape. There are few better weapons for direct killing than a gun. Even the mass killers recently used guns to kill most of their victims.


No escaping poison in the morning coffee. No escaping an explosion of an office that you just watched the person walk into.

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Message 1275070 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 22:56:57 UTC - in response to Message 1275042.

Agreed. I've been around guns since I was little. I got my concealed weapons permit about 11 years ago, and renew it every 5 years per our state laws. I take self defense classes my friend does, and go out about every month and target shoot. I also am an avid hunter. Not everyone with a gun is a nut job. I got my permit for the simple fact of the stuff I hear on a daily basis with my job, being a 911/police/fire dispatcher. I hear things that is never released to media, that no one else would know unless its by word of mouth. I got it to protect my family and myself. Thats it. I carry daily, unless I'm at work. Movies, stores, getting gas, grocery shopping, its with me. A saying I've always lived by is I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. I refuse to be a victim, I refuse to allow my family to become a victim. Like me or hate me, doesn't matter either way. If someone interested in shooting, I will gladly take them out to shoot at targets, go over gun safety, and help them learn. You don't, thats fine, I don't think of you any differently. We all have things we like and dislike.

+1
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Message 1275075 - Posted: 24 Aug 2012, 23:08:52 UTC - in response to Message 1274966.
Last modified: 24 Aug 2012, 23:36:04 UTC

Firearms, especially automatic firearms, should not be available to ordinary people, but this is a politically hot subject.That Norwegian guy, Breivik, who killed 77 young people has been sentenced to 21 years in jail, the maximum allowed in Norway, He just smiled.
Tullio

In the US, a Federal firearms permit is required for an Automatic Weapon(which is considered a Rifle or a Carbine I think), This was a Semi Automatic handgun according to CNN, a handgun I have no training in of course, now an M16 rifle at one time I was fully trained in how to use one and I was quite capable with it(too capable really, I scared Myself), the M16 can with a flip of a switch go to Automatic mode or back to semi-Automatic mode, this is a military option the mode switch that is and retail units should not have this, cause any M16/AR15 that does is considered an Automatic Weapon and if one has one and does not have the permit, it's a felony, plus Automatic mode isn't something the untrained needs as it can be dangerous... I was an Army Marksman, if it moved within 600m I could drop it with 1 shot and I could do this until the magazine was emptied...(I'm not joking either) Oh and the M16 has a limit I think, I once tried hitting a stationary target at 1200m, I got close, the bullet fell at the base of the target and this was before I knew I needed prescription glasses, like I wear today in some cases, but I digress.
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Message 1275127 - Posted: 25 Aug 2012, 3:14:09 UTC

The CBS morning show called Sunday Morning had an interesting perspective on the issue. In Idaho guns are pretty well unrestricted. Ben Stine lives in Sand Point and said that you never hear of shootings in Idaho, last time someone tried to rob a restaurant with a gun there were three patrons who had him covered. In Los Angeles and Washington guns are highly regulated. Shooting in both cities are nightly events.

In Mexico guns are completely illegal. The have more shooting than in all of the US each year.

Are gun control laws effective, I think not. But I don't have a solution. I would love to find one.

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Message 1275195 - Posted: 25 Aug 2012, 4:52:44 UTC - in response to Message 1275192.

The CBS morning show called Sunday Morning had an interesting perspective on the issue. In Idaho guns are pretty well unrestricted. Ben Stine lives in Sand Point and said that you never hear of shootings in Idaho, last time someone tried to rob a restaurant with a gun there were three patrons who had him covered. In Los Angeles and Washington guns are highly regulated. Shooting in both cities are nightly events.

In Mexico guns are completely illegal. The have more shooting than in all of the US each year.

Are gun control laws effective, I think not. But I don't have a solution. I would love to find one.

+1

+2
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Message 1275278 - Posted: 25 Aug 2012, 9:19:32 UTC

We invented the gun, it won't go away, there is no way to legislate it out of existence.

Guns will ALWAYS be available unless all gun manufactures worldwide are closed down and all stocks destroyed. Not going to happen

So we have to introduce laws we feel fair, but we will have to live with gun-crime.

Some countries more than others, it is a fact of life and death.

There are no easy answers.
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Message 1275322 - Posted: 25 Aug 2012, 10:53:17 UTC

You have to have a special permission from the government to get a gun here, the law is very strict on that. Unfortunately you can also get a gun the illegal way.
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Message 1275334 - Posted: 25 Aug 2012, 11:53:32 UTC
Last modified: 25 Aug 2012, 11:55:29 UTC

I have a very unpopular opinion on the whole gun issue: If you're a hunter, great. Extra costs and many many more regulations for you as a hunter to own a rifle. Handguns: Unnecessary; they serve no purpose but to kill other people. In rare circumstances, I have heard that people hunt with handguns. However, too few to matter, as more *people* are killed by handguns than animals in the forests.

In short: ban all handguns in the USA. Make it extremely hard and expensive for hunters to be afforded the ability to own a rifle.

{EDIT: by allowing hunters to own rifles I mean hunting rifles...NOT AK47's/automatics/etc. Bolt action would be the ticket.)

Result: Probably anarchy, hence the unpopularity of my idea.
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Message 1275360 - Posted: 25 Aug 2012, 13:20:41 UTC - in response to Message 1275334.

I have a very unpopular opinion on the whole gun issue: If you're a hunter, great. Extra costs and many many more regulations for you as a hunter to own a rifle. Handguns: Unnecessary; they serve no purpose but to kill other people. In rare circumstances, I have heard that people hunt with handguns. However, too few to matter, as more *people* are killed by handguns than animals in the forests.

In short: ban all handguns in the USA. Make it extremely hard and expensive for hunters to be afforded the ability to own a rifle.

{EDIT: by allowing hunters to own rifles I mean hunting rifles...NOT AK47's/automatics/etc. Bolt action would be the ticket.)

Result: Probably anarchy, hence the unpopularity of my idea.

CA has an Assault weapons ban in place, the AK47 is banned, the AR15 has certain parts banned as do others. Cause of the swamp cooler, I'd be fighting rust all the time, so a gun of any sort is just not worth My time...
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