Cameron's First Term: Part 2


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Message 1282539 - Posted: 11 Sep 2012, 6:36:15 UTC - in response to Message 1282391.
Last modified: 11 Sep 2012, 7:13:53 UTC

As a prime Minister, well for sure things would be quite different with him
around and I'd love to see him perform at some of those ECM summits.
No doubt in a heated debate with Sarkozy he would at some time have called
him "Shorty"...but "Shorty" has gone so no chance of this happening.

Johnson may well be a reasonably popular, flamboyant Mayor of London, and possible future MP again. But no-one sensibly views him with enough Statesmanship to actually lead our country upon the world stage.


I think statesmanship is old hat, Chris; does it really amount to much these days.
We wont leaders who can achieve, something of a rarity in British government since
the days of Maggie. Countries that achieve get more respect and admiration than
those countries who's leaders are good with the old rhetoric....Blare comes to
mind here with the latter.
The word stage, isn't that the place where actors perform, notably political
ones.
But no-one sensibly views him with enough Statesmanship to actually lead our country upon the world stage.

Here Chris I feel your making a fundamental error in judgement. Churchill was
nothing of a statesman until he took over the roll as wartime Prime minister.
At the present time the UK electorate are not looking for a statesman there
looking for an achiever someone who can lead. Might explain his wide popularity
with many of the electorate at the moment so one needs to get in tune with the
voters for they will decide events in the end. Whether Boris considers
himself P.M material or not I have no idea but if he does then I feel the doors
open to him...especially if he's got the electorate rooting for him.
There could be a change on the way so rather than look for the faults in the man
look for those attributes that may propel him up into high office else you might
get caught on the wrong side of the fence....but in politics then isn't that
always the case.
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Message 1282593 - Posted: 11 Sep 2012, 11:17:31 UTC
Last modified: 11 Sep 2012, 11:26:39 UTC

You do seem to have a rather parochial view of politics Nick. The job of a Prime Minister is mainly twofold.

Firstly, on the home front he/she has to to be the Leader of their political party, and form and co-ordinate party policy. Next, they have to be the head of Government and ensure that the agreed policy is carried out. They do that by appointing a Cabinet of Ministers who job is to deliver the targets set for them. The ministers are the achievers, the PM is the manager making sure it happens.

Secondly on an International front, The PM has to host and chair influential bodies such as the G8 or G20 summits, It's our turn for G8 next year, and also consider the G8+5 proposal. There is Europe where we have to make our presence felt and issue vetos where necessary. There are overseas visits to carry out, with State events and discussions upon International diplomacy. In all cases the PM has to represent our country overseas in a forthright, and appropriate manner. This includes socialising at the highest level without ridiculing International leaders.

Statesmanship is the best word for it. Churchill had it so did Thatcher, Blair sullied his premiership by his propensity for private business deals, and the least said about Brown the better. Both Churchill and Thatcher were the right people at the right time, bearing out the phrase "Cometh the hour, cometh the man". It is fine having an amiable buffoon as a City Mayor, but he is simply not seen as having the gravitas required for higher office, whatever the tabloid press might think. You have to realise that some sections of the media want to bring down the PM and the government for their own purposes. Look at who owns them and ask yourself why.

Of course everyone wants charismatic leaders, look at Nelson, the Duke of Wellington, Montgomery, etc. in addition to the two Premiers already mentioned. They inspired people to produce their best under adversity. Johnson and Milliband just don't tick the boxes. I'm not saying that Cameron exactly does that either, but he is a heck of a lot more respected abroad than Sarkozy was.

Oh and one last thing. Just supposing that during the Olympics, a 747 had been hijacked and was tracked on course for the stadium. The PM would have had the ultimate decision upon giving the order to fire to bring it down, juggling the options to minimise the loss of life likely to result. I think Cameron would have been man enough, I'm not sure about the others.

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Message 1282692 - Posted: 11 Sep 2012, 23:20:47 UTC - in response to Message 1282593.

So what's the job of the Deputy Prime Minister? A mouse who continuously backs down & causes controversy?

Poor Nancy boy, in the wars again....

Cleggie in "Bigotry row"

P .W D L
18 3 4 11

Wow, they must be getting really worried.....

Conservative Voice

P .W D L
19 3 4 12

Thanks for the chuckle of the century Ozzie boy...confirming what we all know - you muppets just don't have a clue hence the advertising....:)

Bank of England to advertise Head job in newspapers

There you go Chris...Step up to the plate.

P .W D L
20 3 4 13

Continue like this & it'll mean relegation for the coalition.
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Message 1282828 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 9:56:52 UTC

Not all past Governments have had Deputy Prime Ministers. The DPM is the de facto leader of the Government and the country if the PM is abroad or incapacitated, to ensure that day to day business carries on. In the case of the current Coalition, Cameron as leader of the biggest party the Conservatives, became the PM, and Clegg the leader of the smaller one the Lib Dems, became the DPM.

The Deputy Prime Minister (DPM) is the deputy head of Government and has special responsibility for political and constitutional reform. He is also Lord President of the Privy Council, and Deputy Chair of the National Security Council which oversees all aspects of the nation’s security.

DPM Responsibilities

Every political party has it's own group of hard liners who disagree with party policy, and seek to change it by mounting various leadership challenges from time to time. At present the Tory and Lib Dem groups are quite active, the Labour group has quietened down a bit since Milliband became more effective at the dispatch box.

This summer is the governments mid term, and that is always a time when traditionally people take stock of not only the governments performance to date, but also the standings of the various parties. It is a time when people look to the next General Election now only 2 1/2 years away on 7th May 2015, and the last one before the fixed term act comes in Fixed Term Act Judgements are made on the suitability of leaders to take their party forward to the election, and to make any changes in good time to be ready for it. Its a time of clandestine meetings and stalking horses, although we might not see a "night of the knives" again.

Of course in the meantime we have the County Council elections in 2013, and the London Boroughs in 2014, which could give indications upon which direction the electorate is swinging, although usually people tend to vote differently in local and national elections. However unusually large local swings would set alarm bells ringing.

I'll decline the option of letting my name go forward as Bank Governor, finance certainly isn't my strong point, or my particular interest. Seems a rather hassled job just to enjoy the privilege of having your signature on bank notes.

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Message 1282890 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 15:25:41 UTC - in response to Message 1282828.

Good post, however...

Not all past Governments have had Deputy Prime Ministers. The DPM is the de facto leader of the Government and the country if the PM is abroad or incapacitated, to ensure that day to day business carries on. In the case of the current Coalition, Cameron as leader of the biggest party the Conservatives, became the PM, and Clegg the leader of the smaller one the Lib Dems, became the DPM.


2012 was a blip on the radar then
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Message 1282900 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 16:19:15 UTC

You do seem to have a rather parochial view of politics Nick.

Chris, I do believe your out of tune with current political speak...The
term "parochial" has now been replaced by "bigoted"...so it seems.

Oh and one last thing. Just supposing that during the Olympics, a 747 had been hijacked and was tracked on course for the stadium. The PM would have had the ultimate decision upon giving the order to fire to bring it down, juggling the options to minimise the loss of life likely to result. I think Cameron would have been man enough, I'm not sure about the others.

Can't really use the above as a means of judging a man's abilities, under
pressure, as this event is a purely hypothetical one.

It is fine having an amiable buffoon as a City Mayor, but he is simply not seen as having the gravitas required for higher office, whatever the tabloid press might think. You have to realise that some sections of the media want to bring down the PM and the government for their own purposes. Look at who owns them and ask yourself why.

Buffoon as you say, he could well be but this is a term generated by the media
who as you say wont to bring down various public figures for their own purposes.
Telling me about how the media works these days is nothing I don't already
know. AS we know, all political parties are apt at using the media for their
own ends, so live by the sword die by the sword.

"Cometh the hour, cometh the man"
...
...and you never know who this man is until that hour comes.....could even be
you Chris....something for you to think about.

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Message 1282943 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 17:18:06 UTC

Just a quick reminder, looks like the "Thames Airport" is still on the cards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19577410
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Message 1282952 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 17:36:56 UTC - in response to Message 1282943.

Nice. I like the way they've designed in the capacity for 6 runways.

Del boy says "Unions are a threat to the economy" & Inept muppets & officials are not? Just what planet are you living on? Cutting back on manpower, funds & equipment, ruin their leave because of the Olympic debacle & now you want to use them a strike breakers? Shame on you!

P .W D L
21 3 4 14

Del boy rules out inquiry Carry on like this Del boy & you'll demote Blair to the "Prince of Cronyism"

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22 3 4 15

Gove accuses Welsh Government of playing politics Thought that's what politicians were supposed to do - Well pretend to do anyway

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Message 1283282 - Posted: 13 Sep 2012, 17:13:36 UTC
Last modified: 13 Sep 2012, 17:14:34 UTC

"Cometh the hour, cometh the man"

...and you never know who this man is until that hour comes.....could even be
you Chris....something for you to think about.


Well Nick, thank you for your very kind endorsement, I am quite flattered. If I was 10 or 15 years younger, maybe I could be persuaded to stand for public office, but I'm afraid that circumstances preclude that. However, the one thing that longevity endows you with, is a knowledge about how the system works.

In my patch we have a number of young people with fire in their belly, wanting to change the world. They have the enthusiasm and the courage to do that, but they need to be mentored and guided by wiser elders that can steer them around the pitfalls, and teach them how to use the existing system to their best advantage.

It never fails to amaze me how many of the general public tabloid readers, have so little knowledge of how local and national government actually works. Perhaps if they did, we would all be demonstrably better off.

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Message 1283491 - Posted: 14 Sep 2012, 7:11:55 UTC

It never fails to amaze me how many of the general public tabloid readers, have so little knowledge of how local and national government actually works. Perhaps if they did, we would all be demonstrably better off.

I don't disagree with you here, Chris; but knowing how it works is one thing but
getting sound results from it is another. What would you do to it to smarten it
up and make it fit and sound to head a 21st century progressive Britain.

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Message 1283597 - Posted: 14 Sep 2012, 13:52:11 UTC

Gosh, you don't ask easy questions do you!

Firstly there has to be even more transparency in expenses claimed. Before the recent furore over this, there had been a tacit approval for decades that bending the rules by staying rent free with friends and flipping houses etc was simply an acceptable perk of the job. Not any more. After the revelations of the Telegraph about dredging moats and building duck houses, it has all changed. However, I would make it mandatory for every MP to openly publish their expense claims to their constituents on a regular basis.

I would also inaugurate a public education programme about politicians. Far too many people think that MP's get a couple of months off in the summer. The average MP has at least one weekly advice surgery, often lasting over 1/2 a day and all MP's sit on a number of Committees in addition to their time in the Commons, this goes on all year even in recess. They are asked to present prizes at School speech days, open fetes, address societies and Clubs, support charities, go on fun runs etc. They should be encouraged to publicise what they do, so people don't get a false impression.

A lot of people think the local MP runs the Council, and he/she can get them a Council house. No, the Council is run by the local party with the most seats, under a Council Leader, the Mayor is an honorary position. All an MP can do is to write a letter upon their behalf asking for their case to be reviewed, and hopefully upgraded to a higher banding. People complain to their MP about pigeon droppings under railway bridges. They don't understand that these sort of issues should be referred to the Councillor for their Ward, who does have the power to get something done.

I would want to introduce a school lesson once a week for 11 year olds and above to teach them how local government works, how it dovetails into National government, and how our laws are formulated and enacted. This will usefully prepare them for their own time when they can vote themselves in hopefully an educated manner. They should all have at least one school visit to the Public gallery at the Commons to see for themselves how it all works.

I want to see legislation taking shorter time to get put on the statute book. It can take years for all the readings and Committee stages to complete, and even then it can get filibustered at the last moment. Of course our legislation has to be properly thought through and debated, we can't have half baked laws rushed in because of a lack of very careful consideration. But the timescales need to be shortened.

The government need to explain to the people why they hold the views that they do, in simple plain language that everyone, even tabloid readers, can understand. For example, when most of the media and the public want us out of Europe, why does the government think it best to stay in? They need to tell us. Again with the Human Rights Act which is being misused every day of the week. Why won't they repeal it? We deserve to be told simply and clearly why not. The oft held view that look, you elected us, now go away and let us get on with it won't hold up any more.

And finally we need to negotiate a different agreement with the media. Far too many second rate hacks make a living denigrating politicians with a vengeance that sometimes borders upon the fanatical. Of course we want free speech in this country, and of course it is the job of the media to report ineptitude and incompetence to the public, and to challenge Government policies and decisions that they believe to be wrong. But when some of them resort to constant mud slinging with lurid headlines, just to bolster their falling circulation figures, or to comply with their owners wishes, it can start to undermine the fabric of society. Why bother to vote? According to the Daily XYZ they're all a waste of time anyway etc.

That will do for starters. Don't blame me, it was you that asked! I expect you'll disagree with 99% of it, but to return the riposte ...

What would you propose?

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Message 1283648 - Posted: 14 Sep 2012, 16:17:39 UTC - in response to Message 1283597.

Now that is your best post ever! One extra ruling to be added: -

Any peson entering politics for their own self serving purposes to be sacked the moment that becomes clear. Only have people who genuinely wish to serve the country.
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Message 1283712 - Posted: 14 Sep 2012, 19:00:47 UTC

Thank you, that is a welcome opinion. And I agree with your second point. Rules are in place for constituency parties to de-select their MP if it should prove necessary, but they could be made stricter.


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Message 1283757 - Posted: 14 Sep 2012, 20:43:59 UTC

Nice one BaE

Hey Del-boy, how about stepping in here & ensuring that the frogs & heinies don't get a look in.
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Message 1283762 - Posted: 14 Sep 2012, 20:57:38 UTC

We got it right with the Harrier, and we've done it again.

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Message 1283768 - Posted: 14 Sep 2012, 21:13:45 UTC - in response to Message 1283762.

We got it right with the Harrier, and we've done it again.


Yep! & let's hope they get it right with out new carriers.
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Message 1283973 - Posted: 15 Sep 2012, 8:45:17 UTC

OOPS.......

Masters of the cover up

Oh dear.....

Taxpayers to spend another wasteful £4 Million

"Today the Conservatives admitted they have given up hope of forcing through the changes but the civil service will continue with the project as if nothing has changed". shades of "I started, so I'll finish" Magnus Magnusson

Oh boy, not a very good week for Police senior officers...... 3rd one this week....

Senior Officer suspended over "Serious Misconduct" charge

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Message 1283991 - Posted: 15 Sep 2012, 9:42:49 UTC
Last modified: 15 Sep 2012, 10:19:47 UTC

Just a few things that quickly caught my eye from those three links.

First-class rail travel, supposed to be exceptional, is again becoming the norm. Fifty MPs have even been allowed to claim for expensive iPads. Why?

If an MP undertakes a 3 or 4 hour rail journey then he/she is likely to do some parliamentary or constituency work during that time. This could include reading or writing letters regarding constituents private and personal details. Or considering reports upon various Government policies which are not yet in the public domain. In those circumstances you don't want people looking over their shoulders, nor do you want kids running up and down the aisles disturbing concentration. I agree with first class travel for MP's as you will invariably get the environment that is sensibly needed. But it should be restricted to cases where the journey is say over 3 hours, and work is likely to be done.

Secondly, in the 21st Century devices like iPads are fast becoming the norm for advanced communications. It is maybe not generally known that every MP gets many messages each day from their Whips Office, informing them of the latest party policy, emergency debates, or forthcoming lobby voting. The leaders of our country need to be in the forefront of technology, and show the way forward.

In the case of Hillsborough, I like everyone else am saddened by this damning report, which shames many people. By and large the UK police forces do a remarkable job, under at times intense pressure. But we cannot excuse what happened in the aftermath of that tragic football match. If people are found to be criminally liable then quite rightly they should be prosecuted. Let us hope that an ensuing witch hunt doesn't smear everyone regardless.

The proposed Constituency boundary changes may or may not go through, in this 5 year session or even the next one. Clegg may well instruct his MP's to vote against it because of the Lords reform defeat, but that doesn't mean that all will toe the party line. But the changes will go through one day that I am sure of. So much work has so far been done on this that it makes sense to finish it off, even if it is all put on the back burner.

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Message 1284149 - Posted: 15 Sep 2012, 17:14:38 UTC

What would you propose?

I'll be in a position to answer this late next week when I'm off work for
a few days.

That will do for starters. Don't blame me, it was you that asked! I expect you'll disagree with 99% of it, but to return the riposte ...

We'll just have to wait and see....


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Message 1284955 - Posted: 17 Sep 2012, 20:48:26 UTC - in response to Message 1281432.

It's not important anyway she is small fry.


Oops, it's come back to haunt you.

Will Miss Greening turn off the tap?

"Justine Greening, the new International Development Secretary, is said to be deeply unimpressed by her department’s disgraceful antics and has ordered an urgent audit.

We also know that Miss Greening, an accountant by trade, is sceptical about David Cameron’s politically-correct commitment to increase the aid budget by a further £3billion a year".

"DfID has proved time and again that it cannot stop itself hosing taxpayer’s money down the drain. Turning off the tap is the only answer". Ooohh, yes please Justine

"And, incredibly, the £400,000 lavished on furniture for a new DfID headquarters in India – even though ministers say they will shortly stop paying aid to a country which has its own space programme!" don't forget their Nukes as well

So, if she is your idea of small fry, then let's get all those muppets out of power & replace with countless small fries like her - who knows, Britain might regain its greatness sooner than anyone can expect!

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