Cameron's First Term: Part 2


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Sirius B
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Message 1288665 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 3:41:49 UTC - in response to Message 1288570.

Well this article say that drivers on the Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines just open the doors.

http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featuredriverless-train-technology/


That's always been the case since automation was introduced. That doesn't say it works perfectly.

@Chris

It's not a case of better sensors or improved technology. It's the environment. It's not easy to explain, suffice to say that if you could spend 5 minutes in a tube tunnel, you'll get the picture.

As for Cameron, Even I have to admit he handled himself well. My point was that an ignorant fool like myself knew what Magna Carta meant & also happened to know that Elgar certainly didn't compose Rule Brittainia.....Just what are they taught at Eton?

How to get rich quick & mess up the country at the same time maybe?
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Message 1288690 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 5:41:47 UTC

Magna Carta

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Message 1288730 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 8:20:41 UTC - in response to Message 1288665.

As for Cameron, Even I have to admit he handled himself well. My point was that an ignorant fool like myself knew what Magna Carta meant & also happened to know that Elgar certainly didn't compose Rule Brittainia.....Just what are they taught at Eton?

How to get rich quick & mess up the country at the same time maybe?

The country was already pretty stuffed by the time he took over.
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Message 1288732 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 8:45:07 UTC

@Simonator - It is and isn't a fuss really. As the elected representative of the British people abroad, he really should have known those facts, wherever he was educated. I agree Cameron is the best we have at present. In that situation Milliband would have just crumpled.

@Bobby - I have looked up Letterman and he is notorious for his irreverent style and courts controversy more often that not. When presenters interview famous people it is usually polite, in the UK at least, to give them or their advisors a brief idea of the areas you'll want to discuss. It doesn't do your show's prospects much good, if you embarrass someone so that others won't want appear in future either. It was obvious to me that Letterman deliberately asked questions that he thought Cameron might have difficulty in answering, which at the very least was discourteous.

I think Cameron handled himself very well, some politicians would have tried to squirm and bluff their way around it, but he was honest and said I don't know. But it was an error of judgement for him to have agreed to appear, and Letterman has done himself no favours either. It wouldn't surprise me that there wont be many senior foreign politicians wanting to appear on his show after this.

However you make a fair point about what I called him. I have picked up other people before for doing just that so I won't be a hypocrite. I will apologise for referring to him as a pratt, and withdraw it, as there was no cause for name calling. But I won't apologise for calling him smug, because he is.

@Sirius - I would have said Elgar as well, I don't think many outside professional musicians would know about the song originating from the poem "Rule, Britannia" by James Thomson and set to music by Thomas Arne in 1740. He was obviously like me thinking of "Land of Hope & Glory" written by Elgar in 1902. A quite easy mistake that probably 95% of the population would make. All of us know what the Magna Carta is, and what its part in history was, we all know it is a document which first forced a King of England by a group of his subjects, the feudal barons, to limit his powers by law and protect their privileges. What it is, is more important than being aware of an exact Latin translation.

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Message 1288739 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 9:08:45 UTC

@Sirius

That's always been the case since automation was introduced. That doesn't say it works perfectly. It's not a case of better sensors or improved technology. It's the environment. It's not easy to explain, suffice to say that if you could spend 5 minutes in a tube tunnel, you'll get the picture.

I have seen a documentary about overnight engineering work and I know that the environment is claustrophobic, hot and stuffy, it smells, there are rodents (Weils desease), copious amounts of human hair and other waste. I wouldn't want to work down there either. I have been down 4 level central London manholes after being pumped out of water, a very similar environment.

As to un-manned tubes, I think its got to happen one day, but maybe not in London, our system is very old, other countries ones are much newer. Thanks for the inside picture.

@Betreger

since you assert "If tube trains become completely fully automated then the drivers won't have a job. If the drivers don't have a job then they won't need a trade union. If there is no need for a trade union then Bob Crow won't have a job.", which may be well true, then what do we do with the displaced?

The perennial question that automation, mechanisation, and technology always brings. Usually there is a combination of early retirement, re-training, career changes, re-deployment, becoming trainers, and of course redundancy. Unions can play a vital part here by getting the best deal for their individual Members. Look at history, the Miners self-imploded, the Unions killed off Fords Dagenham, Spanish practices and a closed shop destroyed Fleet Street etc. Unions need to be forward looking not entrenched.

Afterthought - Could skilled Tube motormen be re-trained to drive overground trains? I don't know, Sirius probably will.

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Message 1288742 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 9:17:41 UTC

The country was already pretty stuffed by the time he took over.

EXACTLY!

The current Government inherited the biggest peacetime deficit since WWII £145 Billion). If Labour had won they would have had to deal with it as well, and in much the same way. You can't spend what you don't have, Labour don't understand that. They should take a lesson from Mr. Micawber :-)

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."


Even Dickens knew that in 1850!

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Message 1288748 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 9:50:46 UTC - in response to Message 1288739.

As to un-manned tubes, I think its got to happen one day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driverless_trains#Completely_driverless_systems_and_lines

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Message 1288752 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 10:18:15 UTC

London's Victoria Line opened 1967 (a member of staff opens & closes the train doors and presses twin start buttons, but does not normally drive the trains).

London's Central Line converted to automated operation in the mid-1990s (a member of staff opens & closes the train doors and only drives the trains on Sundays; at other times trains are computer driven).

London's Jubilee Line converted to automated operation in 2011 (a member of staff opens & closes the train doors).

London's Northern Line is due to be converted in 2012.


In all cases it is semi automation, a member of staff is still on board. The Paris Metro is the same. In other words we don't have a driver, but we do still have a guard. It's opposite on one man operated buses, there is no conductor, although they brought them back with the new London bus, for daytime running.

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Message 1288788 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 12:33:03 UTC - in response to Message 1288651.

Chris, since you assert "If tube trains become completely fully automated then the drivers won't have a job. If the drivers don't have a job then they won't need a trade union. If there is no need for a trade union then Bob Crow won't have a job.", which may be well true, then what do we do with the displaced?

It should be clear to most of us, that over time, advances in technology will
finally make the working man redundant in most if not all manual task operations.
Man will therefore progress hence find something else constructive to fill his
time. Replacing manual-man via the use of technology has been evolving since the
days the first windmills were ever first erected. Clearly, via technology, man's
way of life has vastly improved and will improve much further as time goes on.
It's for man to embrace these improvements, take advantage of them, hence look
to see how he can adapt to a potential new way of life in the coming future. A
way of life that may involve much less time spent working hence much more time
spent living. Planet Earth is no more than a spring-board out into the universe
for man. So man's future may well be in the area of space travel and planetary
colonisation....that should keep him and his misses busy for hundreds of years
but technology will be doing all the grafting work for him though....
....."Beam me-up Betreger, oh and ask E2D2 to put the kettle on and make a cup
of tea for us"





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Message 1288816 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 14:32:43 UTC

Actually Nick it's R2-D2 but he is no good as a bar tender, best stick to tea.

Get me a beer

Sirius B
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Message 1288819 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 14:38:27 UTC - in response to Message 1288739.


Afterthought - Could skilled Tube motormen be re-trained to drive overground trains? I don't know, Sirius probably will.


Can't see why not.

Cameron made me spill my drink though....

"Well we did interfere in your politics 200 years ago, when we sailed up the river & burnt down the White House"

He should have said, "Let us do it a 2nd time & it'll save you a lot of money come November"
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Message 1288836 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 15:13:55 UTC

Yep that was a goodie! Cue Major General Robert Ross August 24, 1814, after defeating the Americans at the Battle of Bladensburg. His name may be Letterman, but he won't be on my xmas card list this year.

Mr Letts has never been my favourite columnist, but even he agrees that basically the lad did well, and took it in good humour.

Q.Letts

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Message 1288847 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 15:30:24 UTC

If anyone wants to see an original copy of the Magna Carta, then Lincoln Cathedral is where to go and one of only 4 surviving originals.
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Message 1288889 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 16:30:56 UTC - in response to Message 1288816.

Actually Nick it's R2-D2 but he is no good as a bar tender, best stick to tea.

Get me a beer

Errr, hit the wrong key...


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Message 1289024 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 20:47:06 UTC - in response to Message 1288732.

@Bobby - I have looked up Letterman and he is notorious for his irreverent style and courts controversy more often that not. When presenters interview famous people it is usually polite, in the UK at least, to give them or their advisors a brief idea of the areas you'll want to discuss. It doesn't do your show's prospects much good, if you embarrass someone so that others won't want appear in future either. It was obvious to me that Letterman deliberately asked questions that he thought Cameron might have difficulty in answering, which at the very least was discourteous.

I think Cameron handled himself very well, some politicians would have tried to squirm and bluff their way around it, but he was honest and said I don't know. But it was an error of judgement for him to have agreed to appear, and Letterman has done himself no favours either. It wouldn't surprise me that there wont be many senior foreign politicians wanting to appear on his show after this.

However you make a fair point about what I called him. I have picked up other people before for doing just that so I won't be a hypocrite. I will apologise for referring to him as a pratt, and withdraw it, as there was no cause for name calling. But I won't apologise for calling him smug, because he is.


From what I have seen, my guess would be that when the reports say "zany" or "irreverent", you should be thinking more "Terry Wogan" than "Alan Partridge".

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1289473 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 20:25:52 UTC

Finally, confirmation of what many thought..... just how many do we have currently in power?

Hubris & a pillock who thinks God is the only one to judge him
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Message 1289481 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 20:38:34 UTC

We all have our opinions of Tony Blair, and no one more than me, I can assure you. But don't write him off just yet, he may even now surprise us all. I fervently hope not, but we will see.


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Message 1289483 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 20:41:50 UTC - in response to Message 1289481.

We all have our opinions of Tony Blair, and no one more than me, I can assure you. But don't write him off just yet, he may even now surprise us all. I fervently hope not, but we will see.


Doubt it. Don't think those in Europe will let it happen. They still don't like him for being Clinton/Bush's poodle.
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Message 1289812 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 19:33:23 UTC

A quick history lesson for "our infallible, unflappable" politicians......

15 Things everyone should know

Knew 14...didn't know about the 1911 Parliament Act.
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Message 1289830 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 20:17:15 UTC
Last modified: 30 Sep 2012, 20:17:40 UTC

Treachery or treason?

Happy New Year Army - You're sacked!

This deficit really is hitting home, so can we now see the "Bloated" Civil Service" reduced in size?
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