Cameron's First Term: Part 2


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Profile Chris S
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Message 1289843 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 20:41:06 UTC

I think the armed forces should stay at the manpower levels that they currently are, they have been cut enough. However, government spending has to be lowered to balance the books. Trimming the Civil Service is one way but wont bring in that much. Wherever they cut next it will be unpalatable.

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Message 1289852 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 20:51:36 UTC - in response to Message 1289843.
Last modified: 30 Sep 2012, 21:05:15 UTC

Agree. However, you're not going to like the following.....

...Nothing whatsoever against the good ole "US of A", but I think it's time Britain stops allying our forces alongside those of the US, at least while the economic crisis is affecting everything & everyone.

Her military complex is what's got them in a bit of a financial pickle. We just cannot match them £ for $, so bring all our troops home and ONLY use them for direct threats against this island.

Stuff some pissant country 5000 miles away - it has no direct bearing to our national security.
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Message 1289874 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 23:08:41 UTC
Last modified: 30 Sep 2012, 23:14:11 UTC

Some chappy hosting a radio programme on LBC covering
the Labour parties annual get together reckons Labour will win
the next general election. Oh well, that'll be Britain ruined finally
then!!

If that event does occur then best you put all your money into inflation
protecting investments because inflation will take off with that lot in
charge again. When high inflation happens then of course Labour will blame the
Con/Lib alliance for it...you can write that in stone now!!
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Profile Sirius B
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Message 1290206 - Posted: 1 Oct 2012, 21:11:19 UTC

Thank you Ed Balls, no more Del-boy or Nancy boy tags... :)

"Butch" Ca moron & the Flat Line Kid
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Message 1290339 - Posted: 2 Oct 2012, 7:58:04 UTC - in response to Message 1290206.
Last modified: 2 Oct 2012, 8:00:43 UTC

Thank you Ed Balls, no more Del-boy or Nancy boy tags... :)

"Butch" Ca moron & the Flat Line Kid


This bit caught my eye:
"They were as shocked and dismayed as everyone else at the gross irresponsibility and greed of a few millionaire bankers at the top who caused such damage and gave their industry a bad name.

"Working people who want tougher regulation, who want banks to work for the long-term interests of our economy, and who do not deserve to be pilloried for their hard work and service.


And remind me Mr Balls, which party was in charge while the bankers did this?
Which party failed to regulate the bankers leading to the economic crash?
Which party gave the bankers several billion pounds payout, without forcing them to spend it on fixing the economy instead letting them pay themselves even larger bonuses?
Was it the Tories Mr Balls? I don't think it was.
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Message 1290344 - Posted: 2 Oct 2012, 9:43:11 UTC

He has the right surname, that is all he ever talks!

Trouble is, he is more of a possible credible leader than Milliband, and that DOES worry me. The thought of a Lib Dem coalition with him as PM just fills me with total despair. And yet people are apparently saying never say never .....

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Message 1290471 - Posted: 2 Oct 2012, 23:42:11 UTC

From one extreme to another, except this time, I happen to agree with him....

"Jerry-can" Maude at it again
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Message 1290497 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 0:53:52 UTC

Hmmn, will this government go into the history books as the "Turnabout Government"?

West Coast Main Line contract ditched

A bid that went £1billion over & above what the contract was worth, so were "backhanders" involved? with the way this government is handling matters, that won't come to light.....

"Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin described the mistakes made by his department as "deeply regrettable and completely unacceptable"."

"And it said an announcement would be made about the suspension of staff while the investigation into the mistakes is carried out." Yep, some poor junior Civil Servants taking the rap - nothing new there then!
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Message 1290650 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 9:32:02 UTC

So, has Sir Richard Branson now been exonerated for his refusal to accept the original decision?

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Message 1290811 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 16:36:39 UTC - in response to Message 1290650.

So, has Sir Richard Branson now been exonerated for his refusal to accept the original decision?



No. The whole shebang has to be rebid for. Wonder what cockups will occur this time around......
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Message 1290829 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 17:26:16 UTC

West Coast Main Line

I'm reposting Chris's link here as his sombre thread is not the place to discuss this.

This is going to get nasty. 1st off, as I've already pointed out in this thread, Justine Greening is an accountant by trade & so far, she has discovered many discrepancies in her new department.

HOW do we know that she did not find some very serious discrepancies within the railways issues (there are another 15 railway franchises coming up for bids between now & the next general election), or for that matter, the Heathrow issue?

HOW do we know that Richard Branson himself did not find discrepancies so serious that he undertook legal proceedings on it? Don't forget, Branson is a highly successful businessman & would not waste time & money on an issue where it would be more than likely, he would lose. Secondly, WHY did the Department of Transport on the day before the judical review start, admit mistakes & stated that they would NOT be contesting that review?

As for Justine Greening approving FirstGroups Bid, HOW do we know that she wasn't forced into approving it by her superiors? However, when it came to the Heathrow issue, she remained adamant & would not budge from her position hence the move sideways in the cabinet reshuffle, which from the current situation, will also prove to be a major mistake by Cameron.

This, I feel is similar to the auditors of the EU, still not signed off after 14 years.

There is nothing more deadly than an honest accountant

"The transport secretary said there were "significant technical flaws" in the bidding process because of mistakes by Department for Transport staff. Three civil servants have been suspended.

The suspended staff face possible further disciplinary action pending an investigation


Only 3? What positions/Rank do they hold? Low down the totem pole? Sorry cannot accept that they would be in a position to hold sway on the issue at hand.

Middle management? Again, doubt it, as those below & above them would become aware of any discrepancy sooner or later.

So that leaves high ranking officials.... Oh dear.... Be nice if they say, "We'll be damned to take it all on our backs, let's take some others with us"


Which will come back to haunt all those on the fiddle within the House of Parliament
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Message 1290884 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 19:36:50 UTC
Last modified: 3 Oct 2012, 19:53:09 UTC

A clearer picture....

What derailed the Transport Department

West Coast fiasco adds to coalition woes

Q&A - West Coast Main Line franchise

"According to Virgin boss Sir Richard Branson, "this is the fourth time that we have lost a competitive tender as the runners-up... on each occasion the winner went bust or they ran into serious financial difficulties".

Yep & one of them was the GNER fiasco on the East Coast Main Line. Seems like the DoT haven't learnt from past mistakes.... Ah so what, they say, it's not costing us anything, we're still getting paid a wage, let the taxpayer cover the losses....our friends in high places will cover us.

Edit: All those BBC links show a worrying trend: blame Justine Greening. Fortunately, a better report clarifies that matter(well, at least for me anyway} & raises some interesting points.....

A costly mistake for the taxpayer & the Civil Service

"Ministers understandably feel that too often the official or officials responsible get away scot-free, whereas the politicians bear the brunt of public opprobrium, and the electoral consequences".

"Patrick McLoughlin was praised earlier by Sir Richard Branson for his forthright handling, and we are assured that it had not come to light when Justine Greening was moved. Much is being made of her background as an accountant, but would the details that were got so wrong have been put in front of her by officials in the first place? I doubt it somehow.

"Whitehall is packed with talented people who do great work. But mandarins will be right to worry that a mistake, albeit one of epic proportions, has given ministers the excuse they need to push through sweeping reforms that could dramatically change the way Government works".That would be nice
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Message 1291135 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 12:00:05 UTC

Hotting up already, this is going to be fun at the Conservatives Conference....wonder what Cameron's going to do.....

That's our reply to your Independence bid

This guy's having a laugh
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Message 1291152 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 12:44:49 UTC - in response to Message 1281494.


Stansted is a possibility.


Another issue that's hotting up....

Risk of "inertia" over Heathrow


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Message 1291160 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 13:04:00 UTC

In my time I was involved in Civil Service procurement procedures, albeit some 10 years ago, but I doubt much has changed. Whether you want 1000 nuts & bolts or a multi billion rail franchise, the rules are the same. You go to your list of "Approved Government Suppliers" and invite a minimum of three of them to tender, you then evaluate those bids, and the rules are that the lowest bid always wins, unless there are over-riding reasons otherwise.

An over-riding reason may be that between the receipt of the bid and the evaluation, information has come to light regarding the financial health of the bidder, or their ability to deliver, or that the product does not meet the specifications.

What of course happens is that some companies desperate to maintain their Approved Supplier status, will deliberately bid low as a loss leader, intending to make up the shortfall by front loading other contracts in the future. In other words speculate to accumulate. The problem happens when they bid too low, get the contract, then can't deliver, and get into financial difficulties. No-one wins, least of all the tax payer.

What seems to have happened here is that Firstgroup appear to have over estimated the revenues and passenger numbers towards the end of the contract, but this was not initially picked up by the people reviewing the bids. Branson said right from the start that their bid was unrealistic, and he seems to have been proved right. That is rather different from "significant technical flaws" as they are now saying.

FirstGroup is also handing back the Great Western franchise because it cannot meet the financial commitments.

The civil Service procurement process is flawed because you don't have professionals that can see through the wool and the fog. They believe what they are told and don't look too deeply into things. It's not all their fault it's the system they have to work within. It's the same with IT contracts. How many billions has successive governments wasted by awarding contracts to IT companies that simply can't deliver?

We were supposed to have an NHS system where any person could walk into a GP surgery or casualty anywhere in the UK, and a doctor could call up their records from a central database immediately, to avoid giving them a drug they were allergic to. Doesn't work. MOD warships cost more because they keep changing the specifications for political reasons.

Government Departments do not understand IT and do not understand realistic Procurement processes, and until they do, or people who do are brought in to replace them, these farces will continue. As for Justine Greening, this all happened on her watch, she has to be held partly responsible for that. Not hard to see why she was moved coupled with the Resistance to Heathrow RW4.






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Message 1291186 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 14:17:16 UTC - in response to Message 1291160.

Another good post & agree 100%.

However, I feel there is a hell of a lot more to this than the government is letting on....

Government Departments do not understand IT and do not understand realistic Procurement processes, and until they do, or people who do are brought in to replace them, these farces will continue. As for Justine Greening, this all happened on her watch, she has to be held partly responsible for that. Not hard to see why she was moved coupled with the Resistance to Heathrow RW4.


That may be a correct assumption, but riddle me this: -

VERY shortly after she was moved & discovered a tremendous amount of waste (fiddles?}, Cameron himself butted in & stated publicily that NO reduction in foreign aid will be made.

What's going on here?

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Message 1291200 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 15:07:20 UTC
Last modified: 4 Oct 2012, 15:09:43 UTC

A good question. and one that I don't have an immediate answer to. Of the top of my head I would guess that :-

    1. She was miffed at being moved, and wanted to immediately prove Cameron wrong, by promptly asserting her authority and ability by highlighting financial waste.

    2. Unfortunately that sent shockwaves around the world that the government's foreign aid programme would be cut.

    3. Hence Camerons intervention.


Greening has undoubted abilities, but if she wants to maintain her position or rise higher, then she needs to learn some maturity.

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Message 1291204 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 15:16:02 UTC - in response to Message 1291200.

A good question. and one that I don't have an immediate answer to. Of the top of my head I would guess that :-

    1. She was miffed at being moved, and wanted to immediately prove Cameron wrong, by promptly asserting her authority and ability by highlighting financial waste.

    2. Unfortunately that sent shockwaves around the world that the government's foreign aid programme would be cut.

    3. Hence Camerons intervention.


Greening has undoubted abilities, but if she wants to maintain her position or rise higher, then she needs to learn some maturity.



At any other point in time, that may be be the case. However, in the current economic climate with 20 million unemployed throughout Europe, reigning in one's excesses will be a lot more acceptable than Maturity in a politician.
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Message 1291222 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 15:48:01 UTC

21st Century Mona Lisa


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Message 1291227 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 16:00:14 UTC

He is not enigmatic, he is cross! And so would I be as well, given the circumstances.

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