Cameron's First Term: Part 2


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Sirius B
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Message 1287812 - Posted: 25 Sep 2012, 23:05:53 UTC - in response to Message 1287018.
Last modified: 25 Sep 2012, 23:08:01 UTC

Just checked my Lotto tickets for the double rollover draw last night. got 5 numbers paying £1,701 & after the cheque clears my account, i'm going to put £1k on a bet that won't pay out until after the next cabinet reshuffle.

Justine Greening to get shifted again & the odds quoted was 7/2!

Overseas lottery Can I buy some tickets!



looking odds-on to win the bet.......

Del-boy to rebuff foreign aid clamp down

hmmn, wonder what department he'll shift her to next?
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Sirius B
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Message 1287833 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 0:02:48 UTC

Tut,tut Andy. What are you trying to do? Get an audition for Eastenders?

Nice One Boris

"It is understood Mr Mitchell tried again to cycle the through the main gates the morning after swearing at police who refused to let him through.

After seeing this revelation, I'm inclined to believe the initial police report
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Message 1288010 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 12:35:32 UTC - in response to Message 1287833.

Tut,tut Andy. What are you trying to do? Get an audition for Eastenders?

Nice One Boris

"It is understood Mr Mitchell tried again to cycle the through the main gates the morning after swearing at police who refused to let him through.

After seeing this revelation, I'm inclined to believe the initial police report

I actually believed the police report from the start. Andrew Mitchell comes across as a pompous ass who should be sacked now.
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Message 1288015 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 12:50:26 UTC

I actually believed the police report from the start. Andrew Mitchell comes across as a pompous ass who should be sacked now.

His position is becoming increasingly untenable by the day.

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Message 1288046 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 14:03:57 UTC

and he looks, and sounds, as arrogant as he is made out to be. Things just caught up, finally, this time.
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Message 1288054 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 14:23:10 UTC

In British politics, the Chief Whip of the governing party in the House of Commons is usually appointed as Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury so that the incumbent, who represents the whips in general, has a seat and a voice in the Cabinet. By virtue of holding the office of Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury, the Government Chief Whip has an official residence at 12 Downing Street. However, the Chief Whip's office is currently located at 9 Downing Street.

The Chief Whip can wield a large amount of power over those in their party, up to and including cabinet ministers, being seen to speak at all times with the voice of the Prime Minister. Margaret Thatcher was famed for using her Chief Whip as a "cabinet enforcer".


Let's be clear here, dismissing a Cabinet Member for misdemeanors is no light matter. Unfortunately he does have a large say in running the Government. Whether he or any Chief whip should do, is of course is another matter. Dismissing him leaves a question mark over Cameron's judgement in appointing him in the first place, he's in a lose/lose situation.

Sirius B
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Message 1288058 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 14:35:53 UTC - in response to Message 1288054.


Dismissing him leaves a question mark over Cameron's judgement in appointing him in the first place, he's in a lose/lose situation.



Not so, that has already been established by this.....

Andy Coulson
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Message 1288067 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 15:01:39 UTC

I think we are basically agreeing here. Cameron made an error of judgement in appointing Coulson, but he got round it at the time by saying he believed in giving people a second chance. In the Mitchell case, up until now as far as we know, that doesn't apply. It appears that the guy was under pressure and just "lost it" but that is simply not good enough for a senior government position.

When he compounds it by trying the same again a short time later, and then "demands" a government official chauffeur driven Jaguar as transport, it beggars belief. Other Ministers use a Toyota Prius. It's time that he went, however embarrassing to Cameron.

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Message 1288074 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 15:08:40 UTC - in response to Message 1288067.

Totally agree, so how about shifting Justine Greening to the Chief Whip? Bet she can scare the bejasus out of them!
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Message 1288273 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 2:07:07 UTC

Mr A "Pleb" Mitchell should be sacked or this guy reinstated. One can't have their bread buttered on both sides.....

Tory Councillor sacked over PC Deaths joke
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Message 1288386 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 11:00:39 UTC - in response to Message 1287833.

What's Eastenders?

I ee Boris got this one right again.

Boris Johnson: Nick Clegg's mansion tax plans are crazy

There are currently 809,000 Band G homes in England and 132,000 Band H homes, according to the last estimate from the Valuation Office Agency.

Any tax could only be introduced by a general revaluation – the last one was in 1991 – which estimates suggest would cost in the region of £260million and take three years to implement fully.

The first bills could even be sent out in April 2015, a month before the likely date of the next general election, in May 2015.


And I know at least five homes that Clegg might think are in that bracket, but keep getting the band lowered because they are on a private road, which includes a bridge which is a "grade 2 listed building", the only utilities they get are electricity and basic phone line, too far from exchange or cabinet to get broadband.

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Message 1288413 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 12:51:00 UTC

Tube trains strike

Driverless trains


RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: "RMT reiterates this union's complete opposition to driverless trains. Every train must have a driver to ensure the safe and effective running of the Underground.

"Plans to scrap drivers or reduce their driving duties are risking safety, services and jobs and are motivated by saving money and undermining trade unionism."


If tube trains become completely fully automated then the drivers won't have a job. If the drivers don't have a job then they won't need a trade union. If there is no need for a trade union then Bob Crow won't have a job. I am getting strong feelings of Déjà vu here remembering Arthur Scargill and the Miners strike back in the mid 1980's. Pits were becoming uneconomic to run, the National Coal Board had no option but to close certain pits down. Scargill wouldn't have it, he had to justify his position or resign. The result was that he plunged thousands of his members into abject poverty from which some never recovered, 10 people died, and the Union was virtually destroyed. These days he is now the leader of the Socialist Labour Party (SLP), which he founded in 1996.

I fervently hope that we don't see anything like that again. It was not government union busting, it was dyed in the wool trade unionists refusing to accept the march of time, and that they didn't have a lifetime job by birthright. As technology increases, less manpower is needed, and that won't change. There are completely driverless systems like the Copenhagen Metro, the trains run automatically at all times, handle door closing, obstacle detection and emergency situations, without any regulatory requirement of staff present in the trains.

In the UK we have the Docklands Light Railway (1987)and the Victoria line (1969) with ATO systems, the trains run automatically from station to station but a person is always present on the train with responsibility for door closing, obstacle detection on the track, and handling of emergency situations. Also it has to be said for passenger confidence. The unions can resist modernisation if they wish but it will happen.

There is a poster here that actually worked on the London Underground, I would be interested to hear his considered and objective views on this subject.

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Message 1288458 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 15:42:57 UTC - in response to Message 1288413.
Last modified: 27 Sep 2012, 15:54:39 UTC

Good post. But one that cannot be clearly answered. However, I'll give it a try.

Modernisation, especially of the transport industry is long overdue. Unfortunately, those with the purse strings have been going about it in the wrong way.

Total automation on trains is inadvisable. The Victoria Line is the classic example - when first introduced, it worked seemlessly (after ironing out niggling little bugs). However after a few years of operation, the sensors that made the whole line work kept failing & the motormen had to take control & operate the trains.

Why did the sensors fail? Answer - simply time! London Underground tunnels are not clean & healthy enviroments for man or equipment.

Also, for those currently living in London...have you ever seen areas around tube stations where renovation is taking place? A good one to take note of is Tottenham Court Road.

It all looks grand, fresh clean updated stations, but think of a damp ridden house - rather than attack the problem, one just wipes it clean & apply a coat of paint... That's the London Underground stations!

Then there's the safety factor, which frankly, scares the hell out of me. While attending an Instructor class, we had to provide a course of instruction & act as if it was a real course with it being videoed for later assessment. I chose safety(during this time period, the IRA were very active in Britain).

Some time later, the class had to sit through all the videos & pass comments on what we each did right & wrong. Throughout my course, I was attacked for un-neccessary scaremongering & this showed on the video. The chief instructor stated that i had done well with the presentation but lingered too long on the matter of bombings - at the time, fair points were raised which I later took on board. I passed the course.

My greatest fear even though I throughly loved working on the trains? Bombs. We had several actually go off on several lines, but fortunately, they were on trains that were running on the surface with no casualties.

Edit: However, even though there were no casulities on these, on one bombing, the driver broke 2 "Golden Rules" that London Underground drives into all driver's head constantly - You do not leave a running train. You take care of yourself at all times, thereby guaranteeing the safety of your passengers. He left the train to chase the bomber - bomber turned, shot him dead & also shot a police officer. That night (was working nights) my crewmate requested a change & refused to talk to me for days as well as causing other issues - why? He was that driver's brother & I'm Irish.

However, at the back of my mind was "Tunnels" Should a bomb go off in a Tube tunnel with a scant 2 inches either side of the train......

For all that castigation I took, one thing I did not do is gloat in July 2005, i just felt hurt with enormous pain for days afterwards.

Then there was Moorgate in February 1975...I was entering the station upstairs on a Metrolitan Circle line train.

Modernisation, yes I'm all for it - crewless trains ? A definite NO
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Message 1288468 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 16:05:54 UTC

Anyone know what the Magna Carta means in English?

Fast forward to 16 mins in.......

Eton Ignoramus on Letterman
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Message 1288558 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 21:12:17 UTC

Good post. But one that cannot be clearly answered. However, I'll give it a try.

Thanks for your thought provoking reply.

Total automation on trains is inadvisable. The Victoria Line is the classic example - when first introduced, it worked seemlessly (after ironing out niggling little bugs). However after a few years of operation, the sensors that made the whole line work kept failing & the motormen had to take control & operate the trains.

Why did the sensors fail? Answer - simply time! London Underground tunnels are not clean & healthy environments for man or equipment.

I would guess that these days sensors could be made that would work in that environment. At least we don't have "smouldering on the track" announcements any more, so hopefully the environment has improved. However you have first hand practical experience of the tube system and I haven't, so it would be sensible for me to defer to your better knowledge, as to whether we should have driverless trains.

My opinion therefore is that it seems that the technology is there, but not applicable to the current UK tube infrastructure. If that is correct then it would seem sensible to maintain a train crew. But the likes of Bob Crow spouting on about undermining trade unionism is just typical blathering of those with his type of mindset.



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Message 1288569 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 21:32:39 UTC
Last modified: 27 Sep 2012, 21:34:04 UTC

Anyone know what the Magna Carta means in English?

I understood it as meaning "large document" but it actually means "Great Charter".

Eton Ignoramus on Letterman

That is unfair. But Cameron and his advisors should have known better than to let him go on to an American chat show of that ilk, where the smug presenter was obviously going to try to catch him out for the amusement of his audience. I would have said Elgar as well, and yes I did know it was Runnymede, I have been there. So much rubbish was talked about an island on the Thames and 1214-1/2 by that inconsequential actor.

They, and many of the moderates not in overt rebellion, forced King John to agree to a document later known as the 'Articles of the Barons', to which his Great Seal was attached in the meadow at Runnymede on 15 June 1215. In return, the barons renewed their oaths of fealty to King John on 19 June 1215, which is when the document Magna Carta was created

Letterman is a pratt and Cameron fell for it ..... sadly.

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Message 1288570 - Posted: 27 Sep 2012, 21:33:29 UTC

Well this article say that drivers on the Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines just open the doors.

http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featuredriverless-train-technology/
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Message 1288630 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 1:04:33 UTC - in response to Message 1288468.

Anyone know what the Magna Carta means in English?

Fast forward to 16 mins in.......

Eton Ignoramus on Letterman

I agree, that is a bit unfair. He certainly handled it better than i think his predecessor would have managed.
Admittedly i did know what Magna Carta means, but then i studied Latin for seven years. But saying Cameron must be an idiot because he didn't know that, or who wrote Rule Britannia (which i didn't know either), is rather making a mountain out of a molehill.

As for inconsequential, next to Ed Milliband, really?

And the less said about Clegg the better. (He lied to us! *shakes fist*)

I wouldn't say i liked any of the current three leaders, but of them, Cameron is the one i dislike least.

Boris for PM!
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Message 1288649 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 2:19:18 UTC - in response to Message 1288569.

Anyone know what the Magna Carta means in English?

I understood it as meaning "large document" but it actually means "Great Charter".

Eton Ignoramus on Letterman

That is unfair. But Cameron and his advisors should have known better than to let him go on to an American chat show of that ilk, where the smug presenter was obviously going to try to catch him out for the amusement of his audience. I would have said Elgar as well, and yes I did know it was Runnymede, I have been there. So much rubbish was talked about an island on the Thames and 1214-1/2 by that inconsequential actor.

They, and many of the moderates not in overt rebellion, forced King John to agree to a document later known as the 'Articles of the Barons', to which his Great Seal was attached in the meadow at Runnymede on 15 June 1215. In return, the barons renewed their oaths of fealty to King John on 19 June 1215, which is when the document Magna Carta was created

Letterman is a pratt and Cameron fell for it ..... sadly.


I don't watch the Letterman Show on a regular basis, though to call the presenter smug and a pratt is absurd. If anyone appeared smug on that show it was David "you caught me out" Cameron. I can't think of any other British PM (or, indeed, leader of the opposition) that would have not known the translation of Magna Carta.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1288651 - Posted: 28 Sep 2012, 2:28:56 UTC - in response to Message 1288413.

Chris, since you assert "If tube trains become completely fully automated then the drivers won't have a job. If the drivers don't have a job then they won't need a trade union. If there is no need for a trade union then Bob Crow won't have a job.", which may be well true, then what do we do with the displaced?
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