Another American Massacre


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Message 1315640 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 17:37:14 UTC - in response to Message 1315580.
Last modified: 15 Dec 2012, 17:37:50 UTC

Alcohol, Cars, Medicines, Toxic chemicals, Radioactive materials...

Yup all regulated.

And guns? Totally unregulated. Anybody at any age can drop by their local convenient store and pick up a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread, and... oh yeah, throw an AK-47 in the shopping cart also.

The government needs to regulate everything in order for society to be happy--including when you go to sleep at night and morning calisthenics.

Seeing as spouting stupid ill thought out sarcastic extreme rhetoric seems the way to go, let me try.

There should be no government at all. Nothing should be regulated. Instead, we should all have guns and be allowed to shoot anyone we feel like to settle our differences. The best way to tackle bullying in schools is to arm the children. That would make them all safe. We should also be allowed to dump toxic waste in school yards, because to not be allowed to do so is restricting American freedoms.

Also, we need to stop licensing doctors. Anyone should be allowed to freely operate on anyone they want. In fact, I think mentally ill people should be allowed to perform abortions, we shouldn't restrict their freedoms at all.

Parents should be allowed to discipline their children any way they want, and if that is with guns, then that is cool too.

After all, freedom trumps everything.

We need to get rid of judges, because if everyone had guns no one would do anything bad. That is so true because 100% of the population is capable of acting rationally and impartially.

The reason 100% of people are so rational and fair is because they have freedom.

I totally trust strangers in the street to be able to shoot me if I step out of line. After all, once you give a person a gun they become a better person. I am sure the facts back me up on this because I feel they should do, and everyone else in the world is just like me.
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Message 1315652 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 17:52:15 UTC - in response to Message 1315407.

Every time a tragedy like this happens, both sides of the gun control issue will USE it to argue their case.

I, for one, will not further discuss my views in the face of this unbelievable time of sorrow.

+1
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Message 1315659 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 18:14:48 UTC - in response to Message 1315640.
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 18:22:59 UTC

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Message 1315674 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 18:53:24 UTC - in response to Message 1315659.

Alcohol, Cars, Medicines, Toxic chemicals, Radioactive materials...

Yup all regulated.

And guns? Totally unregulated. Anybody at any age can drop by their local convenient store and pick up a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread, and... oh yeah, throw an AK-47 in the shopping cart also.

The government needs to regulate everything in order for society to be happy--including when you go to sleep at night and morning calisthenics.

Seeing as spouting stupid ill thought out sarcastic extreme rhetoric seems the way to go, let me try.

There should be no government at all. Nothing should be regulated. Instead, we should all have guns and be allowed to shoot anyone we feel like to settle our differences. The best way to tackle bullying in schools is to arm the children. That would make them all safe. We should also be allowed to dump toxic waste in school yards, because to not be allowed to do so is restricting American freedoms.

Also, we need to stop licensing doctors. Anyone should be allowed to freely operate on anyone they want. In fact, I think mentally ill people should be allowed to perform abortions, we shouldn't restrict their freedoms at all.

Parents should be allowed to discipline their children any way they want, and if that is with guns, then that is cool too.

After all, freedom trumps everything.

We need to get rid of judges, because if everyone had guns no one would do anything bad. That is so true because 100% of the population is capable of acting rationally and impartially.

The reason 100% of people are so rational and fair is because they have freedom.

I totally trust strangers in the street to be able to shoot me if I step out of line. After all, once you give a person a gun they become a better person. I am sure the facts back me up on this because I feel they should do, and everyone else in the world is just like me.


Now that's extremism there. What? You don't want clean water to drink? No police or fire? No education?

These things go against freedom, Guy. Isn't that what you keep telling everyone? Your argument is that if we regulate one thing then government should regulate everything. You take a stance of all or nothing. Which isn't an argument at all.

You might as well claim that the whole problem is schools, simply because education is mandated by the government.

However, anyone with any sense can see that guns are dangerous and shouldn't be handed out like candy.
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Message 1315696 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 19:27:52 UTC - in response to Message 1315634.

The absolute truth is this: A child's right to life trumps anyone's right to posses a device designed to kill easily, and frequently from a distance.

I assume you mean "anyone" to include governments, military and police forces. I assume you mean "device" to include say throwing stars perhaps dipped in the nerve agent of choice.

Otherwise those devices will exist and can be stolen as happened here.

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Message 1315698 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 19:30:04 UTC - in response to Message 1315674.
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 18:36:38 UTC

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Message 1315708 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 19:43:23 UTC

Every school shooting that has happened in my Country has happened in a firearm free zone, mandatory, by law.

How has that worked out for us?

Try being a parent, even if the child is NOT yours.

May I help you?

I do every day at work. I look in their eyes everyday at work. We talk about OUR children at work. Them kids are NOT our blood children. We love them. We care. We believe. We do make a difference.

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Message 1315709 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 19:44:20 UTC - in response to Message 1315573.



Has a school shooting happened here?

Ever hear of a mass shooting at a gun show?

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Message 1315712 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 19:46:10 UTC - in response to Message 1315674.

However, anyone with any sense can see that guns are dangerous and shouldn't be handed out like candy.

Perhaps Canada and the UK hand them out like candy, I don't know. In the USA you have to pass a background check.

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Message 1315717 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 19:58:41 UTC - in response to Message 1315712.
Last modified: 15 Dec 2012, 20:06:18 UTC



Absolutely spiffing background check, old chap!

"ATF Quoted

•Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

•Straw purchasing: Straw purchasing is the most common way criminals get guns, accounting for almost 50% of trafficking investigations. A straw purchaser is someone with a clean record who buys guns on behalf of someone legally prohibited from possessing guns. Straw purchasers are often the friends, relatives, spouses or girlfriends of prohibited purchasers. The two Columbine High School shooters recruited friends to buy guns for them at Colorado gun shows. One of the buyers admitted she would not have bought the guns if she had been required to submit to a background check.

•Gun Shows and private gun sales: Gun shows have been called “Tupperware parties for criminals” because they attract large numbers of prohibited buyers. A loophole in federal law allows unlicensed or “private” sellers, many of whom work out of gun shows, to lawfully sell or transfer guns without conducting a criminal background check. Gun show dealers have been known to advertise to criminals with signs that read “no background checks required here.”"
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Message 1315718 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 20:00:58 UTC - in response to Message 1315712.

However, anyone with any sense can see that guns are dangerous and shouldn't be handed out like candy.

Perhaps Canada and the UK hand them out like candy, I don't know. In the USA you have to pass a background check.

Which it is assumed his mother did. However once in the house they were obviously able to be removed and used.

If they were much harder to get they would be much harder to steal, not impossible, but much harder.
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Message 1315725 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 20:27:34 UTC - in response to Message 1315717.

Sirius, Thanks for proving that prohibitions don't work. Since we have now dispensed with the nonsense that government can control it ... or put another way, gun control means only criminals have guns.

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Message 1315728 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 20:34:33 UTC - in response to Message 1315718.

However, anyone with any sense can see that guns are dangerous and shouldn't be handed out like candy.

Perhaps Canada and the UK hand them out like candy, I don't know. In the USA you have to pass a background check.

Which it is assumed his mother did. However once in the house they were obviously able to be removed and used.

If they were much harder to get they would be much harder to steal, not impossible, but much harder.

And you know how she had them stored? Gun safe perhaps? Or are you saying 20 year olds should be able to take anything a parent owns any time they want, like money out of the wallet?

As to making stuff harder to get, just how hard is it to get heroin? The harder you make it on paper, the easier it is in real life as the profit motive drives more and more into the business.


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Message 1315731 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 20:37:28 UTC - in response to Message 1315725.

Not I, but Wayne B Wheeler, blame him for prohibition not working.

The infamous fool who turned off the taps!
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Message 1315736 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 20:59:20 UTC
Last modified: 15 Dec 2012, 21:11:58 UTC

There is a 5 day waiting period in my state. I was just at a gun show here today and the same applies.

How about that knife attack in China. Shall they outlaw knives? How about fat people, shall we take away their spoons and ask for a 5 day wait to buy ice cream? Shall we put a warning label on on the side of ice cream; This product will make you fat if you don't practice on self-control? Or shall we just take away the ice cream from fat people?

Where is personal responsibility and self restraint?

When you willingly give up freedom for a little security you in the end get neither for your lack of personal responsibility and self restraint. Enjoy your self imposed slavery to the state.

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Message 1315748 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 21:32:42 UTC

If "the right to bear arms" is enshrined in the constitution, as it is in the USA, that is their right and we have no place to really complain.

However the USA cannot complain about this sort of massacre if "the right to bear arms" is law. The people of the USA are the ones who have to want to change this.






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Message 1315750 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 21:37:19 UTC - in response to Message 1315725.

Sirius, Thanks for proving that prohibitions don't work. Since we have now dispensed with the nonsense that government can control it ... or put another way, gun control means only criminals have guns.

He didn't prove they didn't work. He just proved they weren't sufficient.

Once a gun is in the community there doesn't seem to be any way to track it and see where it ends up.

That is insane.

Why do people even think they need these things? What possible purpose can justify the thousands of gun deaths in the US?

Twelve facts about guns and mass shootings in the United States
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Message 1315751 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 21:40:03 UTC - in response to Message 1315736.

There is a 5 day waiting period in my state. I was just at a gun show here today and the same applies.

How about that knife attack in China.

...

How many people died in that knife attack?

I think the outcome may have been a little different if the perpetrator had access to a gun.

To me as a parent, there is a huge difference between an injured child and a dead one.
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Message 1315779 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 22:46:38 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 18:35:51 UTC

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Message 1315785 - Posted: 15 Dec 2012, 22:55:52 UTC - in response to Message 1315779.

It seems that you either didn't read the whole report in that link or you chose to ignore it......

"•Handcuffing the ATF: The ATF, the sole government agency charged with enforcing federal gun laws, has operated without a permanent director since the Bush Administration, and operates with just 1,800 agents to monitor approximately 77,000 gun dealers. Given these constraints, it would take ATF 22 years to inspect all federally licensed gun dealers. Even if the ATF had the manpower to inspect most gun dealers, federal law limits the agency to a single unannounced inspection of a dealer in any 12-month period. Congress has made it increasingly difficult for the ATF to revoke licenses of crooked gun dealers.

•An absence of records: It is impossible for law enforcement to know the whereabouts of millions of firearms in circulation today because Federal law explicitly bars the ATF from establishing a database of retail firearms sales, and private gun sellers are not required to keep a paper trail of transactions. Prior to 2001, federal authorities maintained criminal background check records for up to six months. Under President Bush, Attorney General John Ashcroft reversed this policy and ordered the destruction of all criminal background check records within 24 hours. Even though the General Accounting Office found that destroying these records endangers public safety, the policy remains in effect."
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