Why should Mitt have to show his tax returns?


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Profile betregerProject donor
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Message 1262029 - Posted: 18 Jul 2012, 23:08:56 UTC - in response to Message 1262028.

Gary, privilege for a token, seems like a fair deal for all.

Precisely. I suppose the King might expect some tax revenue, but he is a fool if he does.

Well, since corporations are people I guess the state also benefits from a new constituent.
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Message 1262067 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 1:02:18 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 14:53:44 UTC

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Message 1262077 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 1:48:43 UTC - in response to Message 1262067.

G, whoever wins inherits a bag of rocks that took decades to assemble. Reagan's plan to disassemble the middle class is working well. The dice have been cast.
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Message 1262149 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 8:38:51 UTC - in response to Message 1262067.
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 8:48:47 UTC

I'd be willing to bet Romney is going to win by a land slide.

Is anything going to change? I don't think so.

You want to get back at the greedy b*st**ds?

Simple. Ease up regulations on small business. But Harry Reid is going to make sure that doesn't happen.

So it doesn't matter if Mitt shows his tax returns or not. And it doesn't matter if he wins by a land slide.

Thinking he's going to win, and especially(!) by a landslide, Ha! Who's views are skewed now. (You definitely live in a red state and listen to Faux news, huh?)
G(uy), I'll make a friendly bet with you. If Romney win's I'll donate 50$ to GPUUG. (This is generous considering 50$ for food is hard to come by at the moment) If 'Bama wins, you do it. Do we have a deal? And PLEASE note, I am willing to make this bet with you, knowing your guy has 5:1 spending ratio on my guy.

(And on a seperate note, Betreger's comment above: He obviously is not blind, he sees everything for how it is.

Wasn't it Ben franklin that said no man should own more property than he requires, the rest should belong to the state? Republicans used to hold the rich to pay their share, nowadays the repubs want the rich to pay 10% while the rest struggle to pay 25-35% and eat.

Once upon a time we protected against this, somewhere along the way we went wrong. When we were a nation to behold, the rich paid 91% in taxes. Remember that.)
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Message 1262163 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 9:24:57 UTC

the repubs want the rich to pay 10% while the rest struggle to pay 25-35% and eat.

When a Rich Person cuts a check to The IRS for Their 10%, and The Check is $100,000 to $10,000,000, The Struggling Rest can Kiss Their A**.

I've seen a lot of The "Struggling Rest". And they look like they Eat Just Fine. They are Fat Fat Fat. So F*** 'em. And they ALWAYS have a cig dangling from their Pie Hole Eating Mouths. Again, F*** 'em. And their kids.

BarbecueTheHumanRaceFourthAngel
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Message 1262205 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 14:10:26 UTC

I like how he's gotten so much into his IRA account. Its worth $millions. yet he could only put a maximum of $30k in per year. That makes Hillary's $1,000 to $100k investment on the Chicago Merk look like a pittance.

From what I read he vastly undervalued investments placed into the IRA then revalued them after they were in the ira OR some magical fairy made it all happen
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Message 1262216 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 15:14:56 UTC
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Message 1262217 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 15:20:01 UTC - in response to Message 1262216.

It's not how much he has. It's how much he's hiding. Perhaps you missed the notion that his own father was one of the first persidential candidates to disclose many years worth of income for public scrutiny. This allows people to see that they actually are paying taxes. The fact that Mitt has skirted the law ans paid in less than the avery wage earner tends to put the working man off. It does for me. It should for you.
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Message 1262224 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 15:51:51 UTC - in response to Message 1262205.

I like how he's gotten so much into his IRA account. Its worth $millions. yet he could only put a maximum of $30k in per year. That makes Hillary's $1,000 to $100k investment on the Chicago Merk look like a pittance.

From what I read he vastly undervalued investments placed into the IRA then revalued them after they were in the ira OR some magical fairy made it all happen

Easy, 100,000 shares of Bain, par value $0.01 each. Have an IPO. Shares now trading for $50 each.

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Message 1262242 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 16:57:32 UTC - in response to Message 1262224.

Gary, and if he dumps those shares into his IRA those gains essentially stay off the books until he pulls them out.

Of course, at age 70 -- the required withdrawals might yield a fair taxable income.

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Message 1262265 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 18:29:25 UTC - in response to Message 1262149.
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Message 1262306 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 20:34:47 UTC - in response to Message 1262242.

Gary, and if he dumps those shares into his IRA those gains essentially stay off the books until he pulls them out.

Of course, at age 70 -- the required withdrawals might yield a fair taxable income.

What makes you think he was dumb enough to put them into a traditional IRA and not a Roth?

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Message 1262336 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 22:59:42 UTC - in response to Message 1262306.

Excellent point -- question of timing -- Roth's were not set enacted until 97 or 98 so before that he would not have had the option. But after that, you are quite right -- an excellent tax 'avoidance' technique if you can control the process.

Oh, regarding tax returns -- I think he should show them, but I also think a good case can be made to require candidates for Federal (and perhaps State) offices to show them -- there isn't. Pelosi has not shown her tax returns -- makes it difficult for her to make noises here.




What makes you think he was dumb enough to put them into a traditional IRA and not a Roth?


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Message 1262340 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 23:28:39 UTC
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Message 1262354 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 0:31:23 UTC - in response to Message 1262340.

No -- we do understand.

The trick here is the price of the stock.

If the stock is set at a low price and you purchase it, then put that in a Roth (let's say for simplicity 5000 shares at $1), then the stock rises in price to a very high number (say $100), you have a Roth account now valued at $500K.

If the stock is closely held in a private equity company, one might be able to play all sorts of games with stock prices.

Let's say the stock is priced at 1 cent, instead of $1. Boom, you have $5M when the price suddenly jumps to $100 as the stock goes public.

There are clearly all sorts of manipulations (probably all of them legal) that one can do if it is closely held stock and not public.

If you do this via a 401 or other similar investment, the amounts can get larger -- but you have the tax on withdrawal.

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Message 1262358 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 0:55:08 UTC - in response to Message 1262354.

No -- we do understand.

...

There are clearly all sorts of manipulations (probably all of them legal) that one can do if it is closely held stock and not public.

Well, much of this is required by FASB when dealing with illiquid investments. How do you put a value on shares of stock that can't be sold except to a qualified person and with consent of others? Until the IPO the SEC seriously frowns on stock trades and will put people in jail for doing it. So that price is the last available, which is what you bought it for. So you and your friends started a company, each put in $100,000 and got 10,000,000 shares for that. Price $0.01 a share. Until the IPO that is what it is worth, when you put $5000 a year, 500,000 shares, in your Roth.

This is how you get rich in America.

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Message 1262359 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 0:57:25 UTC

Should Mitt's wife be forced to make her tax returns public?

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Message 1262362 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 1:16:06 UTC - in response to Message 1262354.
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Message 1262368 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 2:01:02 UTC - in response to Message 1262362.

See Gary's more detailed explanation. Stewart got nailed for insider trading. With Bain, it would be more like insider owning....

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Message 1262370 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 2:24:24 UTC

You have all missed the point. Mitt will not show his tax returns because he is running for office in the United States of America, and the big issue in this race is just that: Race!
The voters will decide the whole thing on the colour of the candidates. If it was Mr. O’Bama and his tax forms everyone would be in an uproar, but Mr. Romney is white so he is and will get a pass on this issue. Neat week everyone will be talking about the jobs index, and taxes will be forgotten.

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