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Profile Paul McKirdy
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Message 1256367 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 12:11:55 UTC

Just curious about the extent to which anyone has interpolated our technological advancement in terms of how we would contact an unknown intelligent civilization...

Like say forward covert ops etc... I have thought up at least one, and am planning on writing a book about it if I can focus on one thing long enough to do so...

I am aware there are fictional stories already about the issue, I am specifically curious about the extent to which any of this has been closely coupled to what we can actually do. Understanding that even the maintenance and transformation of the human body is part of our technology as well as our communication methods as much as the methods of using stacked up rocks on a microscopic scale to resonate vibrations to be interpreted as information.
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Message 1256372 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 12:25:44 UTC

It may just be me but I don't understand what you are asking for. Are you asking what methods are being planned to find and contact aliens or what proceedures are going to be used after initial contact is made to decipher the meaning of any alien message?
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Profile Paul McKirdy
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Message 1256483 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 16:56:15 UTC - in response to Message 1256372.

I am thinking from the perspective of the alien race in question and putting us in their shoes to imagine how they might actually go about the process...

I just don't believe presently that would be as simple as we develop a technology then they show up to make sure we don't adversely affect the Galaxy or some other precautionary measures on their part.

I presently imagine it really would be some type of urban involvement in standard form not to learn what we can do but how we decide what is important to us as a collective to determine most efficient means of interaction.

Not from a conspiracy with local institutions though... I do not believe that would be a first advanced intelligent source of field response data. The procedural methods in that scenario would contaminate determining pure psychological response patterns.

Surely anything more advanced in proximity to make physical contact already knows we are listening and broadcasting etc...
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Message 1256503 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 17:34:18 UTC

Paul McKirdy,
I'm like Bob here. I have read both your posts and i don't know what your looking for either?

Paul is it that you want to talk about scenarios of what would happen if we actually were in direct contact with aliens? Is that it? Do you want to discuss exactly how we might talk to, or communicate with them?

Ahhhhhh...... If they have eye balls, and they can see us, then sign language would be a good way to communicate.

If they have ears, we could try simple binary sounds and simple maths to get started.

If its radio communication, then it would depend on what they say to us first.

John.
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Message 1256527 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 17:51:24 UTC - in response to Message 1256503.

As let's say, for the sake of discussion, we as a group are an alien race just arriving in the solar system...

We have transportation and other advanced technology...

Some pre-requisite exists for our goal to be intelligent communication with the inhabitants of this planet.

That communication is going to be input for a decision of what direct interaction will take place through co-option, option or option~less results relative to the inhabitants of the planet...

As in, for the sake of discussion, Paul, Bob and Johnney are aliens and deciding based on the human record of information the best way to collect and analyze response pattern to determine the best way to conduct direct interaction.


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Profile Paul McKirdy
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Message 1256536 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 17:56:12 UTC - in response to Message 1256367.

Ah, so sorry... This first line is wrong, arrr!

This should have read:
Just curious about the extent to which anyone has interpolated our technological advancement in terms of how AN ALIEN RACE would contact an unknown, TO THEM, intelligent civilization.

Basically flipping the which side are we on switch to think as they would using highly advanced knowledge to manage their contact with us...


Just curious about the extent to which anyone has interpolated our technological advancement in terms of how we would contact an unknown intelligent civilization...

Like say forward covert ops etc... I have thought up at least one, and am planning on writing a book about it if I can focus on one thing long enough to do so...

I am aware there are fictional stories already about the issue, I am specifically curious about the extent to which any of this has been closely coupled to what we can actually do. Understanding that even the maintenance and transformation of the human body is part of our technology as well as our communication methods as much as the methods of using stacked up rocks on a microscopic scale to resonate vibrations to be interpreted as information.


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Electrons started spinning, electrons are still spinning and electrons will be spinning tomorrow to the best of our knowledge therefore either change in acceleration is persistent or friction is fractally less than understood.

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Message 1256570 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 18:42:00 UTC

Paul,
Its still difficult to understand what your asking. Most people here have talked through every possible scenario of what we might say to aliens, and what aliens might say to us.

In my personal opinion, to make first contact either by us making contact with them, or them making contact with us, simple contact would be best. First you have to find out how intelligent a civilisation really is! So first you have to try simple maths to see if they can count. So first contact on either side should always be through simple maths. 1+1=2, 2+2=4, and so on. Only after that can you take the communication any further.

John.
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Message 1256604 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 20:12:43 UTC - in response to Message 1256570.

Indeed fair enough to assert. No argument whatsoever, at some point corresponding Morse would have to be established through adequate track recorded response of each the others comm matrix...

Might it be rational to provide as a given to this posit, at the very least as a highly probably occurrence of the scenario, That in the case of the given conditions thus far... That each side has figured out as much as... and just trying to keep it light :) ... the fact that each other has a pencil and the pencil is recognized as the color yellow? :) Further that each side must be assumed to have been able to acquire this knowledge in the absence of the others awareness of its knowledge.

And given still that the Alien arrival is in the most absolute extreme advantage initially but just as questionable a final goal outcome... Thus must take a considered approach... What would they do to establish then a directly coupled negotiation of the human hierarchy of powers... to the purpose of receiving whatever deliverable they are wishing to obtain from the planet.
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Message 1256941 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 9:41:43 UTC

Any alien race discovering the existence of earth would want to monitor it for a while to gain data from it, before deciding what to do next. Having decided that there is intelligent life here, they would ascertain how we communicate with each other, and learn our languages. They would make sure we didn't have weapons that could harm them, and that we were no threat to their well-being.

They would then probably decide whether there was a single world leader that was able to respond on behalf of the whole planet, or whether a group of leaders would be necessary. They may decide to contact the scientific community first, so that they could brief their leaders on what to expect with any further form of contact. If they have mastered space travel then they will be intelligent enough to know that just suddenly appearing without warning would cause mass panic throughout the world, so that is an unlikely scenario.

It all depends of course what the reason for the visit was in the first place. Are they on a galactic survey and this is a fact finding visit, or are they a warlike breed looking for planets to wage war against and conquer. We are of course assumimg that any ET visitors would want to contact us anyway. They may just note the fact that we exist and simply move on. If they have already mastered space travel, our stage of technological advance would not be of any interest to them.

Maybe they might be a philanthropic race and would be happy to give us a cure for cancer as a visiting card. Maybe if they determined that we had a certain mineral or element that was in short supply to them, they could want to do trade and business. But this is all conjecture and possibilities.

What may happen, if anything, is an intelligent signal from somewhere else in the universe, which in time we will decipher and return, but the distances between us would mean that a physical visit would not be possible. We'd end up just being penpals!

I do think that we have been visited in the past (see other threads) so I think that those out there (locally) know of us, but are unlikely to get in touch again for a very long time. I think they will most likely take the Vulcan position from Startrek, leave us alone until they need to talk i.e. if we develop a warp drive or something similar.

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Message 1256982 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 11:37:28 UTC - in response to Message 1256941.


Maybe they might be a philanthropic race and would be happy to give us a cure for cancer as a visiting card. Maybe if they determined that we had a certain mineral or element that was in short supply to them, they could want to do trade and business. But this is all conjecture and possibilities.


which mineral can we have on earth that doesnt exist on billions of planets ?
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Message 1256991 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 11:52:50 UTC

Absolutely no idea!!! How long is a bit of string ...... How on earth would we know? (pun intended).


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Message 1257001 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 12:31:12 UTC
Last modified: 7 Jul 2012, 12:32:05 UTC

They might give us an ultimatum;

"Give us all your Unobtainium or we will destroy your planet!"

Then its a no win situation. ....LOL

John.
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Message 1257032 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 13:42:02 UTC

Good link Johnney!

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Message 1257106 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 16:36:31 UTC - in response to Message 1257032.

For a first contact after a long journey: " Take me to your larder"

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Message 1257118 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 17:15:10 UTC


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-Dave #2


3.2.0-33

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Message 1257119 - Posted: 7 Jul 2012, 17:15:22 UTC

Profile Paul McKirdy
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Message 1257320 - Posted: 8 Jul 2012, 2:19:11 UTC

Agreed in all respects :)

Now... What evidence and at what point would we acknowledge if not immediately displayed of the actual existence of a "far superior" intelligence by which we would accept and act on it in that respect in absolution....


What would be our evidence that the intelligence and "firepower" are far superior to the point of knowing not to even try fighting? :)

Just an approach to an extreme limit...

How might a visiting intelligence decide to in a friendly non-harmful fashion "fire a shot across our bow", ah hem, so to speak... :) I mean a friendly intelligence might very well do something only the possible responding forces would even recognize to prevent the public panic outlined earlier are my first thoughts.
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Message 1259041 - Posted: 11 Jul 2012, 18:26:02 UTC - in response to Message 1256483.

I dont wish to be unkind but for one I no idea what point or points you are making !!!?

Id advise get your concepts really clear and then summarise them succinctly as discussion points ; hope this helps

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Message 1259102 - Posted: 11 Jul 2012, 20:19:35 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jul 2012, 20:28:03 UTC

I think i understand the point Paul McKirdy is tyring to make. I think Paul imagines that any intelligent extraterrestrial civilisation would be very advanced and they might consider, as Paul McKirdy puts it, "fire a shot across our bow". So i think maybe Paul is suggesting these ET's might kind of "warn us" in advance of their arrival with some type of warning shot to let us know that they are more powerful than us.

Des O'Conner,
Maybe its possible that Paul might have a touch of Dyslexia and might have difficulty putting his thoughts into words here on the forum. Paul McKirdy if you do have Dyslexia or something similar, that's ok my friend. You have come to the right place to chat about this stuff. There are lots of people here who love chatting about these type of scenarios. Paul your in good company here my friend!

Good to have you with us Paul,
John.
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Message 1259752 - Posted: 13 Jul 2012, 9:14:11 UTC
Last modified: 13 Jul 2012, 9:17:16 UTC

Paul may not have English as his first language, although his CV is well written.

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