Results from the LHC soon?


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Profile Chris SProject donor
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Message 1255467 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 16:15:56 UTC

They do seem to have enough evidence to support a new "Higgs like" particle. But its very far from explaining the force we call gravity

That opinion is the same as mine John, all exciting stuff though!

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Message 1255476 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 16:35:30 UTC - in response to Message 1255465.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2012, 16:36:27 UTC

That is the big problem. Three interactions, nuclear strong, electromagnetic and nuclear weak, are included in the Standard Model. Gravity is not and is still a kind of island. Even Einstein failed in his unified field theory, although that included only em and gravity, not the nuclear forces. Perhaps we need a new Einstein more than a new accelerator.
Tullio

I'm not too sure Einstein would agree with you here, Tulio. Einstein did not
consider himself any more intelligent than his contemporaries. He stated that
his successes were down to him being prepared to spend more time and putting more
effort into his research.
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Message 1255489 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 16:50:53 UTC - in response to Message 1255476.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2012, 16:56:02 UTC

Well, Einstein solved the mystery of the photoelectric effect via the Planck quantum, created special relativity, general relativity, introduced the idea of stimulated emission of radiation which gave birth to maser and laser, made also other contribution to physics which it would take too much time to explain (but see the book by Abraham Pais).What I would like to remember today is the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox of 1935 which opened new horizons to quantum mechanics and the following works by John Bell, the Bell inequalities, confirmed experimentally by Alain Aspect which brought to the entanglement phenomenon used in quantum cryptography, and, possibly, in quantum computers. He deserved at least 5 Nobel prizes and got only one, for the photoelectric effect, none for relativity.
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Message 1255583 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 18:44:53 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jul 2012, 18:55:02 UTC

EINSTEIN came to Princeton University in 1935 and was asked what he would require
for his study. he replied: "A desk, some pads and a pencil, and a large wastebasket to hold all of my mistakes."


Einstein made such a big effort that naturally he would get some
big results in the end...Now he knew this so perhaps explains his
humble attitude regarding his own abilities to those comparable
to his contemporaries.

Still, he was 'arf clever though and we will always consider him a
couple of universes ahead of anyone else.
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Message 1255586 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 18:49:44 UTC - in response to Message 1255489.

Prof Stephen Hawking, talks in the short video.
I stayed up watching the live feed. Physics, is hard to understand.



Higgs boson-like particle discovery claimed at LHC

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Message 1255641 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 21:30:29 UTC - in response to Message 1255476.

That is the big problem. Three interactions, nuclear strong, electromagnetic and nuclear weak, are included in the Standard Model. Gravity is not and is still a kind of island. Even Einstein failed in his unified field theory, although that included only em and gravity, not the nuclear forces. Perhaps we need a new Einstein more than a new accelerator.
Tullio

I'm not too sure Einstein would agree with you here, Tulio. Einstein did not
consider himself any more intelligent than his contemporaries. He stated that
his successes were down to him being prepared to spend more time and putting more
effort into his research.

What Eienstein considered himself to be is not relevant. One can be a genius and not contribute anything of significance to mankind's body of knowledge. Eienstein's contribution is unmistakable most probably because he had all of the qualities needed to put his thoughts in order and come up with the revelations now being used in science. This is what I think Tullio was referring to in his comment regarding the need for another Einstein.
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Message 1255654 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 21:48:48 UTC

Guys,
The presentations made by the two scientists at that conference was way too detailed for what was needed. Both of them went through page after page of very deep mathematics, and each page was full of abbreviations that only a CERN insider could understand. I bet that any physicist what watched those presentations would also have struggled to keep up with what they were explaining.

The presentations should have been much shorter and with simpler "bullet points". But i suppose those scientists are buried so deep inside the science of what they are doing, in their minds, it was clear.

John.
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Message 1255665 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 22:13:58 UTC - in response to Message 1255654.
Last modified: 4 Jul 2012, 22:14:56 UTC

Guys,
The presentations made by the two scientists at that conference was way too detailed for what was needed. Both of them went through page after page of very deep mathematics, and each page was full of abbreviations that only a CERN insider could understand. I bet that any physicist what watched those presentations would also have struggled to keep up with what they were explaining.

The presentations should have been much shorter and with simpler "bullet points". But i suppose those scientists are buried so deep inside the science of what they are doing, in their minds, it was clear.

John.

I wonder how would explain it Michio Kaku, Brian Greene, Lisa Randall or Brian Cox, for example.
Stephen Hawkings has already requested the Nobel Prize for Mr.Higgs, although it has not been proved for sure.

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Message 1255667 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 22:27:46 UTC

What Eienstein considered himself to be is not relevant. One can be a genius and not contribute anything of significance to mankind's body of knowledge. Eienstein's contribution is unmistakable most probably because he had all of the qualities needed to put his thoughts in order and come up with the revelations now being used in science. This is what I think Tullio was referring to in his comment regarding the need for another Einstein.

Good to have a different angle on this:

Einsteins IQ: 160
Richard Feynman IQ: 125
So it's not just intelligence that makes for a genius as Bob points out.
Clearly there is something else and for Einstein he did have this challenging
mind and always followed his intuition rather than follow the thoughts of
the herd. Not following the herd mentality is what made him a winner in many
respects. There may be another form of intelligence yet to be discovered that
the likes of Einstein and Feyman both possessed to a very high degree.


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Profile Chris SProject donor
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Message 1255686 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 23:26:18 UTC

Nick, a notional IQ does not indicate a genius that Einstein demonstrably was. I have an IQ of 148, and I struggle big time to understand both of Einsteins relativity theories .....

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Message 1255688 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 23:29:42 UTC - in response to Message 1255686.

Nick, a notional IQ does not indicate a genius that Einstein demonstrably was. I have an IQ of 148, and I struggle big time to understand both of Einsteins relativity theories .....

Don't put your self down Chris. Nobody understands Einsteins special and General relativity. Anyone that says they do are lying.

John.
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Message 1255727 - Posted: 5 Jul 2012, 0:42:14 UTC - in response to Message 1255686.

Nick, a notional IQ does not indicate a genius that Einstein demonstrably was. I have an IQ of 148, and I struggle big time to understand both of Einsteins relativity theories .....

Now I thought I was OK with an IQ of 129 but had yet to find a use for it.
But hey, Chris; your are a genius when it comes to potted plants though, at
least you found an outlet to shine in.


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Message 1255744 - Posted: 5 Jul 2012, 1:09:52 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jul 2012, 1:53:30 UTC

I would say that quantum mechanics is more difficult to understand than relativity, and not because of the equations, that are simpler to integrate than Einstein's non linear equations. Chemists regularly use the Schroedinger equation to study the properties of molecules using approximate methods (such as Hartree-Fok or density functional theory and MonteCarlo) without caring much about the philosophy underlying it. Einstein understood it perfectly and reacted saying "God does not play dice".
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Message 1255745 - Posted: 5 Jul 2012, 1:11:19 UTC

It's an historic time! Kudos to the LHC staff!
O wonder!
How many goodly creatures are there here!
How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world
That has such people in't!
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Message 1256304 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 7:48:10 UTC

That was on the Cattell B III Nick. Mensa did require 150+ to join, looks like they've dropped it these days.

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Message 1256338 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 10:15:22 UTC - in response to Message 1256304.
Last modified: 6 Jul 2012, 10:17:07 UTC

That was on the Cattell B III Nick. Mensa did require 150+ to join, looks like they've dropped it these days.

Richard Feynman IQ: 125, would not have gained entry then. So one wounders
then "what do these test result amount to in relation to ability". With yours
as high as 148 Chris then you should have some good ideas on this.
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Message 1256352 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 11:02:10 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jul 2012, 11:09:42 UTC

Funny thing about the old Higgs Boson;
Physicists spent 40 years looking for it. Very elusive!
Physicists claim the Higgs Boson can explain why matter has mass and everything else in the whole universe!
Then they find it, big announcement, big party!

But now its old news, that's it, finished. Over and done with!!
*****
Does anyone see what the true problem is here?

There is a really big problem here with the announcement of the new "Higgs Boson like" particle! Can anyone tell me what the problem is?
Anyone at all?
Anyone including Nick and Chris who both seem to think they have above average IQ's! Common guys, let's really see how clever you are.

What's wrong with the big announcement they just made at CERN?
Do any of you ever understand what they just announced?
And can anyone spot the error or problem in the announcement they made?


(No tricks here. I will tell you the answer!)

John.
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Message 1256355 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 11:14:05 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jul 2012, 11:19:02 UTC

@Nick

On the Culture Fair test used by British Mensa, a score of 132 places a candidate in the top two per cent of the population (the average IQ is taken as 100). On the Cattell B III, also commonly used by Mensa, a score of 148 or above would be required. All members of Mensa are in the top two per cent by IQ whichever scale their intelligence was measured by.


My test was many years ago, probably irrelevant now. I might have another go one day, I'll see. It's not important.

Mensa Supervised test sessions currently comprise two test papers. One is diagrammatical while the other measures largely verbal reasoning ability.

Mensa Q&A

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Message 1256364 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 12:07:51 UTC - in response to Message 1256355.

@Nick

On the Culture Fair test used by British Mensa, a score of 132 places a candidate in the top two per cent of the population (the average IQ is taken as 100). On the Cattell B III, also commonly used by Mensa, a score of 148 or above would be required. All members of Mensa are in the top two per cent by IQ whichever scale their intelligence was measured by.


My test was many years ago, probably irrelevant now. I might have another go one day, I'll see. It's not important.

Mensa Supervised test sessions currently comprise two test papers. One is diagrammatical while the other measures largely verbal reasoning ability.

Mensa Q&A

Same here Chris, mine was done nearly 20 years ago so it will now have dropped,
due to age, down to about 114.


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Message 1256369 - Posted: 6 Jul 2012, 12:20:39 UTC - in response to Message 1256352.

Funny thing about the old Higgs Boson;
Physicists spent 40 years looking for it. Very elusive!
Physicists claim the Higgs Boson can explain why matter has mass and everything else in the whole universe!
Then they find it, big announcement, big party!

But now its old news, that's it, finished. Over and done with!!
*****
Does anyone see what the true problem is here?

There is a really big problem here with the announcement of the new "Higgs Boson like" particle! Can anyone tell me what the problem is?
Anyone at all?
Anyone including Nick and Chris who both seem to think they have above average IQ's! Common guys, let's really see how clever you are.

What's wrong with the big announcement they just made at CERN?
Do any of you ever understand what they just announced?
And can anyone spot the error or problem in the announcement they made?


(No tricks here. I will tell you the answer!)

John.

Stop it Johnnyyyyyyyyyyyyy - stop it. You misinterpret both Chris & myself
regarding IQ levels. Yes, we both do have above average scores but basically
we scratch our heads regarding any evidence of benefiting from it. This is why
I quote Richard Feynman IQ: 125; my IQ is above his but no way am I in his
league of abilities. This leads me onto your question regarding the end result
to the discovery of the Higgs Bosun. To give you an answer here would involve
me having to study the Higgs Bosun phenomena, in depths, to be able to gauge an
acceptable answer. This I choose not to do, yet if you know the answer then do
come forwards with it. But do deal with this all nicely, John, else you'll
get no respect...which would be a shame since you are an intelligent chap.


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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

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