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An argument for the existence of God: Second Pass...
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Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
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musicplayer Send message Joined: 17 May 10 Posts: 2430 Credit: 926,046 RAC: 0 |
Oh, Chris is deviating from the Bible. I guess he has no "beliefs". http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=0XTUX5oBeSA Heavens Revelation [1080 p HD]. You know, if you are a "first time user" and try locating the galaxies M81 and M82 in Ursa Major, you may think that you have stumbled across some F or G type stars which by coincidence may be located in the same area. Do you possibly associate any such star or stars by the possible existence or precence of life? Most likely not, though you may notice or stumble across this fact if you happen to be an amateur astronomer. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Indeed, this isn't really a debate anyway (and hasn't been from the start), just a Monty Python style argument -- and most of the past several posts have been compliant with the Monty Python style. Deviations from subject will be tolerated, so long as they are within the context of the "debate" |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Perhaps a few of you should go and reread the first post in this thread? Shame you didn't have your wife proof the link ;) I see you're back at the Drake Equation. What do you think it shows? It's been a couple of months since I posted the following: As for Drake's equation, I think Michael Crichton probably had it right: You appear to ignore the fact that the Drake Equation is "simply prejudice", though to my knowledge, have not provided any basis for doing so. [ETA]Fixed Michael Crichton link[/ETA] I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from “billions and billions†to zero. The above taken from Bobby's link to Michael Crichton is the same conclusion that I drew in my posting several months back regarding Drakes Equation. I stated then that the equation was fundamentally floored because it can easily return a count of Zero, something followers of this equation failed to appreciate. I see you're back at the Drake Equation. What do you think it shows? It showed that Drake pumped garbage in and got a whole load of garbage back out and in the process a whole load of people fell for the result. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
SciManStev Send message Joined: 20 Jun 99 Posts: 6652 Credit: 121,090,076 RAC: 0 |
The Drake equation is nothing more than a guess, with no predetermined validity. To me, the chances of earth being the only planet with intelligent life, are very small. We are here for a chance to see what else is out there. We may find something, or we may not. We are doing the best we can to keep looking. Just like everything else. We are doing the best we can to learn answers. We will either find them or not, but we won't invent them. Steve Warning, addicted to SETI crunching! Crunching as a member of GPU Users Group. GPUUG Website |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
Would 200 million be in the realm of Hyer-reals? No, a hyper real is any number that is greater than zero but less than any real number. It's inverse is larger than any real number. Sounds crazy and illogical but read a few articles on them and you will see what i am talking about. |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
The Drake equation has infinite uncertainty in all of the guesses at the components. Most people who applied it early on predicted many civilizations in the Galaxy. So I am with Fermi--- where are they ?? I expect that if we knew and wrote down all the things necessary for intelligent life and their parameter ranges that we would find that there is a very low probability when we look at how many planets that we have found meet all of them. If what I suspect is true then there may be a few (very few) such planets in the galaxy. There would of course be a very large number in the Universe so you could conclude that such life does exist out there somewhere. Will we ever know ?? that's what we are doing here in SETI --but I remain a skeptic that I will or we will hit the Lottery jackpot. I still buy my ticket almost every week. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
The Drake equation has infinite uncertainty in all of the guesses at the components. Will', I agree with you, the chances of intelligent life out there seems pretty remote to me too. But irrespective of the remote chances of there being anything then like you I still wont to keep listening out too....just in case. The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Computer buffs are well versed in the GIGO scenario, but isn't Seti@Home based around Drake? Driven by Drakes result of "High Probability"... The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
It showed that Drake pumped garbage in and got a whole load of garbage back out and in the process a whole load of people fell for the result. Chris, why not post the link for the quote? The page ends: Besides illuminating the factors involved in such a search, the Drake Equation is a simple, effective tool for stimulating intellectual curiosity about the universe around us, for helping us to understand that life as we know it is the end product of a natural, cosmic evolution, and for making us realize how much we are a part of that universe. A key goal of the SETI Institute is to further high quality research that will yield additional information related to any of the factors of this fascinating equation. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
The Drake equation has infinite uncertainty in all of the guesses at the components. As I have pointed out here, where are they? Im of the mind that there may be life here in our own system of planets. But, that's it. Life could have formed on Mars and jumped here by collision. Could be life on one of Jupiters moons. But even so, none of it if found could be called intelligent. I expect that if we knew and wrote down all the things necessary for intelligent life and their parameter ranges that we would find that there is a very low probability when we look at how many planets that we have found meet all of them. Thats what is in the link I provided, all the things needed for life so far as we know it. So far as we know it, 200 or so variables. If what I suspect is true then there may be a few (very few) such planets in the galaxy. There would of course be a very large number in the Universe so you could conclude that such life does exist out there somewhere. Will we ever know ?? that's what we are doing here in SETI --but I remain a skeptic that I will or we will hit the Lottery jackpot. I doubt there are any such planets in our galaxy. Our earth orbits in a alomst perfect circle around our sun. Our earth is almost on a perfect ecliptic plane with our sun. I think you have avoided or ignored one point. What if Fermi is right, there is no other intelligent life in our galaxy. Then what does that say about life in the universe? It would say as the link I posted says, a very, very low probability. Id not be the one to say stop looking. After all Im here too--looking. But I have no faith in the odds of it. I still buy my ticket almost every week. One in two hundred million of a chance is better odds then life elsewhere in the galaxy. I reckon a better question would be and none of you bothered to ask...Why would God put all of His eggs in one basket? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- And I don't see a damn thing Monty Python about this. Reread the first post. Play the ball not the man. The above questions I have asked are for EVERYBODY who has posted here to answer. They apply to all of you. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
"God Particle" is found - CERN expected to announce on Wednesday Hmmn...science or God? That is the question! |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
No, Unmoved mover or chance? That is the question. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
No, Unmoved mover or chance? That is the question. let's not be politically correct here...It's God or science! Just who is this unmoved mover...Satan? |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
No, Unmoved mover or chance? That is the question. You know the story of Satan just as well as I do. Red Herring question, not the Unmoved mover if the Unmoved mover created Satan. Your logic is backwards. Why does the question have to be either God or science? After all, did not the Unmoved mover Create science? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
I was being sarcastic..just who is this "unmoved mover"? |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
Humans are An Experiment. GOD brings a FEW to Heaven. The Very FEW. The REST go to RiverWorld. RiverWorld ain't bad. Deadlier than Earth, but Resurection is assured up to around the 775th time. So, it ain't bad. Sir Richard Burton(19th Century Version)mucked it up somewhat. Not sure if RiverWorld is still An Option now. GOD lent you The Tools. Don't blame The Tools or GOD. Get A Grip Humans. SoSpeakethTheFourthAngel May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
RiverWorld? Never heard of it, but RiverDance is quite good........... |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
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