Big Bang ain't got no religion


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Message 1252435 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 1:54:13 UTC - in response to Message 1252330.

ID, it is clear that you do not understand Borel's law of large numbers as applied to random chance and infinity. Borel stated that as long as a probability exists and given an infinite number of attempts the event will occur! At least that is what the link you cited states.


The link I posted was Borel's Law. Correct? Yes, yes it was.That's a one in one chance. It is what I posted. No gray in that fact, it's black and white.

Then I posted , rather, reposted what someone else wanted us all to see. It's called hyperreal. Was that what I posted? Yes, yes it was. That too is a black and white fact that has no gray in it at all.

The above two points are a matter of fact. They are real facts that you nor I can deny. In other words..."It is what it is."

Now another fact would be that the number that was brought up at this site... http://www.nutters.org/docs/monkeys
...is a LONGER chance then the universe has had life, almost 14 billion years. Yet, the odds of that number are longer then a one and 14 billion year happening. And since WE do not KNOW that the Universe is infinite WE cannot enter a CHANCE happening.

So you have zero to offer here and you are at zero, which is but a starting point.

Both numbers are so close that when they get up in the morn they both get into the same pair of pants.

Non Sequitur..."so 0.000000000000000000000001 is virtually identical to 0.999999999999999999999999? I'm betting math will tell me this are significantly different numbers."

So zero "0" is virtually identical to 0.999999999999999999999999 is the right configuration. Which is IN FACT my whole point. I don't take kindly to your misrepresentation of my point. If you had questions you should have asked rather than offering a misrepresentation of my point.

ID, I thought the point you were attempting to make was that random events did not explain your existence, yet the papers you cited clearly showed given enough time even you would appear. If you were trying to make another point try stating it again.
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Message 1252437 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 1:56:32 UTC - in response to Message 1252427.

is a LONGER chance then the universe has had life, almost 14 billion years

Time started infinitely before the big bang or whatever you wish to call it. That is your error.



Also known as a...Non Sequitur.

What we know time to be, is a point [check out WMAP] that was 13.7 billion years ago and counting.

ID, what was going on 13.7 billion years BB (Before Bang)

Also didn't you assert somewhere something about 4040 BC or there about and that your God just left a bunch of fake clues that there was older stuff?

Oh, lets try one more on you, since you are so hog wild on your prime mover, what was he doing the day before?


(Before Bang)? I don't know? And neither do you.

4040 BC? Non Sequitur, that wasn't me. I have shown you WMAP and in that is what I believe so 4040BC would be an incorrect statement; I said nothing of the sort.

What was He doing the day before? I don't know? Time as we know it did not exist. And you cannot prove otherwise.




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Message 1252440 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 2:05:08 UTC - in response to Message 1252435.
Last modified: 28 Jun 2012, 2:08:51 UTC

ID, it is clear that you do not understand Borel's law of large numbers as applied to random chance and infinity. Borel stated that as long as a probability exists and given an infinite number of attempts the event will occur! At least that is what the link you cited states.


The link I posted was Borel's Law. Correct? Yes, yes it was.That's a one in one chance. It is what I posted. No gray in that fact, it's black and white.

Then I posted , rather, reposted what someone else wanted us all to see. It's called hyperreal. Was that what I posted? Yes, yes it was. That too is a black and white fact that has no gray in it at all.

The above two points are a matter of fact. They are real facts that you nor I can deny. In other words..."It is what it is."

Now another fact would be that the number that was brought up at this site... http://www.nutters.org/docs/monkeys
...is a LONGER chance then the universe has had life, almost 14 billion years. Yet, the odds of that number are longer then a one and 14 billion year happening. And since WE do not KNOW that the Universe is infinite WE cannot enter a CHANCE happening.

So you have zero to offer here and you are at zero, which is but a starting point.

Both numbers are so close that when they get up in the morn they both get into the same pair of pants.

Non Sequitur..."so 0.000000000000000000000001 is virtually identical to 0.999999999999999999999999? I'm betting math will tell me this are significantly different numbers."

So zero "0" is virtually identical to 0.999999999999999999999999 is the right configuration. Which is IN FACT my whole point. I don't take kindly to your misrepresentation of my point. If you had questions you should have asked rather than offering a misrepresentation of my point.

ID, I thought the point you were attempting to make was that random events did not explain your existence, yet the papers you cited clearly showed given enough time even you would appear. If you were trying to make another point try stating it again.


I have CLEARLY shown you what I believe many times now. All attempts to move me from my point have failed, or shown me the grasp some have on math, either way the point of there being a chance happening has not been proven.

The MATH at the site http://www.nutters.org/docs/monkeys is correct. That many 9's after 0. is a longer chance then the universe has had life. The WMAP may be off, and, I can provide a link that will confirm what I have just said but nevertheless the WMAP tells us that time and everything we see started 13.7 billion years ago. Bottom line.

It's not my fault that people will not look back 75 posts for what has been said because they have forgotten what has been said. Or cannot follow a line of thought from one thread to another by what a person believes and or personality. I do remember back farther then 75 posts and have no need to look. I beg you all to keep up.

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Message 1252447 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 2:12:00 UTC - in response to Message 1252437.

What was He doing the day before? I don't know? Time as we know it did not exist. And you cannot prove otherwise.

In your theory, if time did not exist before the big bang, then your diety could not have existed before the big bang, therefore that diety could not have caused the big bang.
Ergo, there is no Designer, therefore there is no intelligent design and we get back to sensibility and accept evolution etc.

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Message 1252460 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 3:04:05 UTC - in response to Message 1252447.

What was He doing the day before? I don't know? Time as we know it did not exist. And you cannot prove otherwise.

In your theory, if time did not exist before the big bang, then your diety could not have existed before the big bang, therefore that diety could not have caused the big bang.
Ergo, there is no Designer, therefore there is no intelligent design and we get back to sensibility and accept evolution etc.

It is easy to pick the low hanging fruit.

Perhaps as betreger suggests we should just let the dog chase its tail round and round in circular logic. Something akin to letting sleeping dogs lay.


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Message 1252471 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 3:36:28 UTC

Eh, I smell blood in the water .... sorry betreger ....

ID, if there is no time before the universe, what created your prime mover? Doesn't your prime mover have to "always exist?" Seems to me that always implies an infinite amount of time. Ergo you loose your prime mover in another way. You have already conceded that if the probability by random chance of this universe is greater than zero then given an infinite amount of time this universe and you must happen due to random chance alone. No prime mover needed.

You have succeeded in destroying your God. I'm proud of you. For a while I didn't think you were capable of enough logical thought to come to the correct conclusion.

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Message 1252472 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 3:47:47 UTC

Linear time. Anyone?

God is not in our linear time.

The Big Bang was the start of our linear timeline.

Ero, it would seem--logical--that for a TIME the Big Bang Event was also outside of our linear timeline, or, indeed, both 'places' at the sametime...

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Message 1252486 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:11:01 UTC - in response to Message 1252472.
Last modified: 28 Jun 2012, 4:11:21 UTC

Linear time. Anyone?

God is not in our linear time.

The Big Bang was the start of our linear timeline.

Ero, it would seem--logical--that for a TIME the Big Bang Event was also outside of our linear timeline, or, indeed, both 'places' at the sametime...

ID, as I have stated Boolean logic does not exist in your arguments. I am amazed, awestruck and totally embarrassed for you.
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Message 1252487 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:11:03 UTC - in response to Message 1252472.
Last modified: 28 Jun 2012, 4:12:45 UTC

Linear time. Anyone?

God is not in our linear time.

The Big Bang was the start of our linear timeline.

Ero, it would seem--logical--that for a TIME the Big Bang Event was also outside of our linear timeline, or, indeed, both 'places' at the sametime...

You will generally find the KISS principal works best.

So you postulate the existence of another dimension of time. Actually doesn't help your argument. If the probability is above zero and this new postulated time is infinite, then random chance rules and with this infinite amount of time in this invented dimension then the universe must exist without a prime mover.

Oh, BTW, if this new invented time isn't infinite, then your prime mover can't have always existed and he needs a different prime mover to create him.

Sorry, ID you destroyed your God.

Of course you could just modify your belief of what your God is, to not be so absolute, you might get him back.
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Message 1252493 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:18:13 UTC - in response to Message 1252486.

ID, as I have stated Boolean logic does not exist in your arguments. I am amazed, awestruck and totally embarrassed for you.

Do you suppose ID represents the "best thinking" by the proselytizing believers?

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Message 1252501 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:36:50 UTC

For a All Knowing, Everlasting, and Always Been, Supernatural God that stands outside of our timeline we can think outside the Box so to speak. And I mean that on many levels.

Ive said it once and I'll say it again..."Place yourself in the proper prospective and place; Are you in the inside looking out, or, are you outside looking in?"

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Message 1252502 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:37:45 UTC - in response to Message 1252493.

ID, as I have stated Boolean logic does not exist in your arguments. I am amazed, awestruck and totally embarrassed for you.

Do you suppose ID represents the "best thinking" by the proselytizing believers?

Gary, that kind of thinking is why I left the Republican Party about 25 years ago, The lack of logical thought I find repulsive. I have a hard time dealing with ideologues.
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Message 1252504 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:39:37 UTC - in response to Message 1252493.

ID, as I have stated Boolean logic does not exist in your arguments. I am amazed, awestruck and totally embarrassed for you.

Do you suppose ID represents the "best thinking" by the proselytizing believers?

Non Sequitur...

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Message 1252506 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 4:41:37 UTC

After the bad display of math here in this thread, done I am with it.

Give them books and send them off to school and look what come back home....

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Message 1252524 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 6:15:34 UTC - in response to Message 1252516.

For a All Knowing, Everlasting, and Always Been, Supernatural God that stands outside of our timeline we can think outside the Box so to speak. And I mean that on many levels.

Ive said it once and I'll say it again..."Place yourself in the proper prospective and place; Are you in the inside looking out, or, are you outside looking in?"

Or are you just mumbling to your own arse?

Consider it.
Done mumbling to the deaf.

Meow.

Considered it.

Appearently.

As am I.

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Message 1252633 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 13:48:28 UTC - in response to Message 1252501.

For a All Knowing, Everlasting, and Always Been, Supernatural God that stands outside of our timeline we can think outside the Box so to speak. And I mean that on many levels.

Ive said it once and I'll say it again..."Place yourself in the proper prospective and place; Are you in the inside looking out, or, are you outside looking in?"

Ah yes, a 1=3 god. Another person who ascribes multiple absolutes on God, a logical contradiction just like 1=3. One of these days you might wake up and actually think outside the box and stop imposing your ideas of what God should be on God and allow him to be what he chooses and not what you impose.

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Message 1252662 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 15:17:28 UTC - in response to Message 1252332.

is a LONGER chance then the universe has had life, almost 14 billion years

Time started infinitely before the big bang or whatever you wish to call it. That is your error.

There's a reason it's called space-time. You can't have one without the other. Even Stephen Hawking got that right.
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Message 1252664 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 15:20:49 UTC - in response to Message 1252633.

Ah yes, a 1=3 god. Another person who ascribes multiple absolutes on God, a logical contradiction just like 1=3. One of these days you might wake up and actually think outside the box and stop imposing your ideas of what God should be on God and allow him to be what he chooses and not what you impose.

It's not ID's idea. It comes specifically from Scripture. If that upsets you feel free to pick up a bible and yell at it.
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Message 1252671 - Posted: 28 Jun 2012, 15:35:05 UTC - in response to Message 1252664.

It's not ID's idea. It comes specifically from Scripture. If that upsets you feel free to pick up a bible and yell at it.

It is ID who ascribes it and attaches himself to it.


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