UFOs hunters and Stanton Friedman


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Profile Orgil
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Message 1252982 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 0:00:24 UTC - in response to Message 1252756.
Last modified: 29 Jun 2012, 0:32:23 UTC

Time to put this one to bed: The lights in Phoenix were caused by OPFORS training from Luke AFB. Now to prove it at the start of the film where the lights first start appearing. As the lights appear count seconds at each light is a flare in a f16 magnesium flares on parachutes the amount is set by the pilot in 2 second intervals. Count them and prove me wrong. Too many excellant radars in that area to be anything else. Some can burn for quite some time. The flares are on a switch 2/4/6 second intervals on a F16 which they were using.
\Again just unidetifyiable lights at a distance at night.


That flare explanation is the most retarded explaining ever. If flare was thrown from the plane or shot then it supposed to fall down not be stationary. There is no any on air hanging stationary flare on this planet. Even with parachute hanging flare hanging stationary is simply against physical law well for corporate debunkers every physical law is breachable anyways.

Another big logical breach is anything unexplainable happens on top of big city then it is usually some military top secret drill thing. But to any common sense all military drills supposedly take place as far away as possible from civilian residences to avoid any lethal accidents.

So for Phoenix case there are 2 major illogical explanations presented by debunkers versus 1000s of witnesses. Well this multi witness cases happen many places just in case of Phoenix there were more people happen to hold few cameras so documentation trails managed to exist.

There is another retarded explanation is for any other crimes or events an eye witness credit is acceptable but for unexplained events any eye witness credit is un-acceptable even the witnesses count in 1000s is still un-aceptable what kind of super retardation is that.
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Message 1253009 - Posted: 29 Jun 2012, 1:28:45 UTC - in response to Message 1252982.
Last modified: 29 Jun 2012, 1:48:13 UTC

That flare explanation is the most retarded explaining ever. If flare was thrown from the plane or shot then it supposed to fall down not be stationary. There is no any on air hanging stationary flare on this planet. Even with parachute hanging flare hanging stationary is simply against physical law well for corporate debunkers every physical law is breachable anyways.


The flare is shot from a predetermined location on the ground. There is a small parachute attached which is deployed once the flare reaches it's position. The heat from the flare reduces the drop time since heat rises.

Another big logical breach is anything unexplainable happens on top of big city then it is usually some military top secret drill thing. But to any common sense all military drills supposedly take place as far away as possible from civilian residences to avoid any lethal accidents.


Yes, because the U.S. Government would never develop any secret military testing where it could be lethal to civilians. It's not like the first atom bomb wasn't being developed virtually under the bleachers of a University here in Chicago, IL.

So for Phoenix case there are 2 major illogical explanations presented by debunkers versus 1000s of witnesses. Well this multi witness cases happen many places just in case of Phoenix there were more people happen to hold few cameras so documentation trails managed to exist.

There is another retarded explanation is for any other crimes or events an eye witness credit is acceptable but for unexplained events any eye witness credit is un-acceptable even the witnesses count in 1000s is still un-aceptable what kind of super retardation is that.


Ask any lawyer how easy it is to discredit an eye witness.

An August ruling by the New Jersey Supreme Court will make it easier for defendants to question the credibility of eyewitness testimony in criminal cases. The decision is part of an ongoing debate about the role eyewitness testimony plays in criminal proceedings.

New Jersey aren't the only ones. There is widespread agreement among researchers that the correlation between identification accuracy and confidence in identification judgments is weak. For this reason, many experts caution against heavy reliance on confidence when evaluating identification accuracy. The authors present a meta-analytic review of 30 studies using staged-event methods that include target-present and target-absent lineups. Although the overall confidence–accuracy correlation in these studies corresponds to that reported in previous reviews, including choice as a moderator variable leads to a somewhat different conclusion. For choosers (those making positive identification), the confidence–accuracy correlation was reliably and consistently higher than for nonchoosers. In addition, the mean confidence level for correct choosers is higher than that for incorrect choosers in every study.

In most courts of the 21st century, eye-witness testimony has been proven to be less than optimal.

C'mon Orgil, try using some critical thinking. Or at least raise your IQ by about 20 points.

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Message 1253914 - Posted: 1 Jul 2012, 0:25:48 UTC



The human imagination is a wonderful thing.

The sense of mystery of something unknown is part of who we are.

UFO and aliens are the ultimate storytelling device.

Modern religion has a copyright on their particular gods.

Aliens have created an open source story telling device.

Nobody can beat the "i met a god (alien) story"

Aliens and UFO fit in with our scientific secular society.

UFO hunters look for "evidence", people "want to believe".

It is all strangely familiar territory.

Some religions have already incorporated aliens into them like Scientology.


The cool thing is I can "believe" in aliens but I don't have to do anything.

All I have to do is visit a few you tube videos and know a few basics stories like the phoenix lights and about O'hare airport sightings.

I don't have to go to church or pray, or wear some dumb thing around my neck, or believe in some son of god who was nailed to a cross.

I just have to think that some blurry video on you tube is real.














Profile Orgil
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Message 1253958 - Posted: 1 Jul 2012, 2:34:42 UTC
Last modified: 1 Jul 2012, 2:44:36 UTC

Since any religious pollution is too high in america it is just useless to debate with some americans.

I'd say Ozzfan is more like religious trained agent to manipulate general views around here to dilute any suspecious critical views changes.

Despite any self rightious western approaches there are many different approaches and opinions exist so it is better for them to accept different opinions.

70-90% of westerners are some form of religious thus religious blindness can be observed in many parts of their functional fabrics. So the self rightiousness wall is created.
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Message 1253977 - Posted: 1 Jul 2012, 3:36:11 UTC - in response to Message 1253958.

I'd say Ozzfan is more like religious trained agent to manipulate general views around here to dilute any suspecious critical views changes.


Doesn't surprise me in the least that you're willing to come to false conclusions based upon insufficient evidence. Of course, anyone who tries to find the empirical truth must be a disinformation agent, for what else can he be to the ignorant and the unintelligent?

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Message 1255239 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 2:22:36 UTC - in response to Message 1253009.

Prove one piece of metal or one hull you could rap your hand on that would be evidence.
Note that lights in the sky at distance can be anything.Its a sighting not a UFO.
Man I seen flares in Veitnam for hours of end. So I realy dont know you say they can be something else. Aircraft flares float with the winds and stay aloft quite some time. Opposing force training at Luke AFB is regular training. With Lukes radar and local airports around that areas would be informed of this training and the training is classidied and only over Lukes airspace..

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Message 1255245 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 2:33:51 UTC - in response to Message 1252103.

Funny a city of what 3 million or so thousands of witnesses and a news crew has the only proof and its aircraft flares from Luke AFB. Strange lights over a military training areas jeez the sky is falling.

NO ONE HAS ANY PROOF OF A UFO not one piece of one no hull no bodies. But we do have 130 groupd and countless others that swear the ufos exist but like fairytales that are quaint and intriging but make good stories. Thats how the UFOlogists sell their books they dont have to prove anything.

Photos can be faked, videos are faked always, documents can added to deleted or blacked out or outright forgery. People make this crap up day in day out.

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Message 1255251 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 2:48:29 UTC
Last modified: 4 Jul 2012, 2:49:48 UTC

How to build a flare to stay aloft.

Hot air balloon design 101.

Have a hot air catching device. Need not be a full balloon, you can cut off the bottom 1/2 or 2/3 as the lift force isn't applied to that portion of the envelope.

Suspend the payload beneath the parachute.

Heat the air beneath the parachute, say with a magnesium flare.

Do a few lab tests to see what burn rate for the flare generates enough heat to counter the weight of the payload to give neutral buoyancy.

Do a bit more testing of burn rate to see how to conically shape the magnesium flare so that as it burns and looses weight it matches with a slower burn rate to retain neutral buoyancy.

With any luck you should be able to design one to stay aloft for an extended period of time.


Gosh, those are IFO's now. Identified Flying Objects.
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Message 1255429 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 14:21:48 UTC

I love the UFO debate. You can read the debunkers side and see their logic and turn around and read the believer side and understand their point of view. I'm willing to be called a UFO kook on these forums, but I believe there is life outside the Earth.

Concerning the Phoenix Lights (P.L.), I understand that everyone states that it was military training by using flares. Or that Luke AFB's and the airport's radar would have detected any unknown aircraft. I've seen flares from aircraft at night used at one of the military training centers and they did not hover as long as the P.L.. And my thinking is if we can make aircraft like the Stealth fighter, then wouldn't an advance civilization have one that's infinitely better than ours? I'm not claiming to be a military aviation expert, far from it. It's just things that I saw personally.

As I get off my soapbox, I'll state one more thing. If the P.L. are fake, what was that "V" shaped object those people saw that went about 100 or so feet above their house? Every time I start to agree with all the explanations, I always come back to these witness statements. If there's an explanation out there, please post me the link. I'm definitely curious to know.

Now, I pass the soapbox to the next person. Have a Happy 4th!!

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Message 1255449 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 15:11:18 UTC - in response to Message 1255429.

The problem with eye witness reports is that people will say what the believe they saw, which often involves their own minds filling in any blanks that don't make sense.

Lights in the sky + strange formation + unseen object = alien technology

Remember that since heat rises, different altitudes and temperatures will affect how long a flare will stay hovering in the sky.

Reports also indicate that nearly every recount of witness reports had deviations in their stories, indicating a lack of consistency, suggesting subjective interpretations of what witnesses think they saw. In fact, what they had seen was lights in a "V" formation, which were five airforce jets flying overhead in a typical "V" formation, but the viewers had made the connection in their brains that the five lights were a single object. While people claimed they saw a single spacecraft, available footage only shows five lights and no visible aircraft.

For more reading, check out the Wikipedia page here.


I'm not trying to tell anyone that they can't believe that alien life exists "out there", nor would I think anyone a "kook" for believing so. I simply think we should investigate without jumping to conclusions until we have reliable data. Avoid the conspiracy theories that our government is somehow powerful enough to hide alien visitations from the public for over 50+ years, and avoid the people who do not know what they saw, so they proclaim that it must have been an alien craft.

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Message 1255468 - Posted: 4 Jul 2012, 16:18:15 UTC

I will leave myself open to being convinced that there unmanned drones from ET's monitoring the earth, but I will not be convinced that any of them are manned by beings of any kind.

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