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Profile Chris SProject donor
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Message 1235079 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 15:23:41 UTC

The most brilliant idea I've seen in years, but will it work in practice, let's hope so :-))

Rubbish fines

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Message 1235093 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 19:31:01 UTC - in response to Message 1235079.

The most brilliant idea I've seen in years, but will it work in practice, let's hope so :-))

Rubbish fines

Yay! More ways for people to break the law and end up in jail.

We all know that every problem can be fixed by threatening and punishing people.

Guess who's going to suffer most from this? The elderly, the poor and mentally ill. No wonder the Daily Mail likes it so much.
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Message 1235103 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 20:13:49 UTC

1984

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Message 1235121 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 20:50:19 UTC
Last modified: 22 May 2012, 20:51:50 UTC

I rather much expected this sort of response. Probably it didn't help being a Mail article, but there you are.

Have any of you actually walked around a sink council estate? Have you seen every other house with rotting settees in the front garden, broken fridges, mattresses, broken down cars etc etc. Well, please feel free to come to my house, and within 3 miles I can show you all of that and more.

Guess who's going to suffer most from this? The elderly, the poor and mentally ill.


No they won't. They already get financial assistance in various ways. In the case of the elderly, they are of the generation that wouldn't dream of dumping unwanted furniture in their front garden to be an eyesore.

What we are talking about here is people on benefits who could work, but don't, who get given a second hand settee or fridge for free, slightly better than their old tattered one, who won't pay their beer money to have the old one taken away, so they just dump it out the front. It's the Councils house not mine, so why should I be bothered??

Sorry Es, we are just going to have to disagree. I agree in principle with this I just think it will be very difficult to implement.

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Message 1235147 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 21:27:53 UTC - in response to Message 1235121.

this harkens the Rudy Guliani rule of fine/punish them for the little things and the big crimes stop happening. Look at New York. Very little violent crime anymore.
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Message 1235148 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 21:28:53 UTC - in response to Message 1235121.

I rather much expected this sort of response. Probably it didn't help being a Mail article, but there you are.

Have any of you actually walked around a sink council estate? Have you seen every other house with rotting settees in the front garden, broken fridges, mattresses, broken down cars etc etc. Well, please feel free to come to my house, and within 3 miles I can show you all of that and more.

I don't doubt there is a problem. After all I've lived right near my fair share of sink council estates and know more about the people living on them than you do.

Guess who's going to suffer most from this? The elderly, the poor and mentally ill.


No they won't. They already get financial assistance in various ways. In the case of the elderly, they are of the generation that wouldn't dream of dumping unwanted furniture in their front garden to be an eyesore.

I think you've missed the point there. Financial assistance isn't the only thing people need to deal with these things. Have you ever had very little money and no car and tried to get rid of large trash items? I have. It's a nightmare...and I'm able to figure out ways of doing it and physically fit enough to move large objects to where the council wants them put. It must be terrible for an old person to try and move a huge load of trash from their front yard. Especially if they have other health issues.

Most people won't leave lots of trash around their house because they understand the natural consequences of ending up with vermin and disease. That is punishment enough for most people. I really don't think you have any idea of how difficult everyday living can be for the mentally ill and the less able. What seems obvious and easy for you or I (and disposing of large household objects was far from easy for me when I had no money and no car) isn't for everyone. Money isn't always the issue.

What we are talking about here is people on benefits who could work, but don't, who get given a second hand settee or fridge for free, slightly better than their old tattered one, who won't pay their beer money to have the old one taken away, so they just dump it out the front. It's the Councils house not mine, so why should I be bothered??

and you know this is the sole cause how? and where it is the cause how will more fines and punishment help? If they are poor with no money what is the point of fines they cannot pay? If they are disenfranchised and think the authorities are out to get them how does making them criminals help?

Sorry Es, we are just going to have to disagree. I agree in principle with this I just think it will be very difficult to implement.

It's a dumbass kneejerk reaction that doesn't deal with the causes. What needs to be asked is why the hell are people dumping sh*t in their own gardens and around their homes. In some cases it will because of laziness, but most causes will be drug addiction, disability, mental health and alcoholism. All things that are rife on sink estates.


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Message 1235166 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 22:38:35 UTC

It's a dumbass kneejerk reaction that doesn't deal with the causes. What needs to be asked is why the hell are people dumping sh*t in their own gardens and around their homes. In some cases it will because of laziness, but most causes will be drug addiction, disability, mental health and alcoholism. All things that are rife on sink estates.

In the process of having action taken against them then these problems of
drug addiction, disability, mental health and alcoholism will all get highlighted
and support and assistance given where necessary. So something good overall
may come from all this.

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Message 1235170 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 22:51:23 UTC - in response to Message 1235079.
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 13:48:22 UTC

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Message 1235174 - Posted: 22 May 2012, 23:02:29 UTC

What? There's no deed restrictions in the UK? No Home Owner's Associations?

Clearly, Guy; the above do not cover or deal with this type of problem that's
why it has now fallen into the hands of our national government.

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Message 1235473 - Posted: 23 May 2012, 15:58:18 UTC - in response to Message 1235166.

It's a dumbass kneejerk reaction that doesn't deal with the causes. What needs to be asked is why the hell are people dumping sh*t in their own gardens and around their homes. In some cases it will because of laziness, but most causes will be drug addiction, disability, mental health and alcoholism. All things that are rife on sink estates.

In the process of having action taken against them then these problems of
drug addiction, disability, mental health and alcoholism will all get highlighted
and support and assistance given where necessary. So something good overall
may come from all this.

Yes. In an ideal world that would be the case. Sadly with all the government cuts to these services I am pretty sure it won't happen.
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Message 1235657 - Posted: 24 May 2012, 2:25:19 UTC

I guess I'm fortunate to live where I do (Florida). Mine is mostly a retirement community and I live in an aluminum box in a mobile home park. My garbage including pizza boxes is hauled off on Mondays as long as I can get them to the curb. Bigger stuff like TVs, microwave ovens, furniture and even large appliances are picked up on Wednesdays. I do pay a monthly fee for this service but it is relatively small. There are also private firms that will come by and take away things like washers and dryers for no charge.
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Message 1235690 - Posted: 24 May 2012, 5:13:26 UTC

It's funny to read this thread now. I just watched and waited for almost a month while a (old) big-screen tv and dresser sat at the edge of the road in front of my neighbors house...

I started to think it was a cruel argument between the homeowners and the garbage company...
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Message 1235737 - Posted: 24 May 2012, 8:14:21 UTC

What needs to be asked is why the hell are people dumping sh*t in their own gardens and around their homes. In some cases it will because of laziness, but most causes will be drug addiction, disability, mental health and alcoholism. All things that are rife on sink estates.


Es asks a very pertinent question. In addition to the causes that she lists I would add that I think a lot of it is what I can best term as "council house mentality". "Settee in the front garden? so what? Hasn't everybody else? My parents had one". When you grow up in that environment it becomes quite normal.

If you can get people to have a bit of respect for their own lifestyle and everybody elses, then you can make a start upon the bigger problems of drugs and drink. It maybe being seen by some as a useless desperate measure, but I think it's an initiative at least worth trying.

We do have tenants associations in the UK but they have no legal standing unless you live in private complexes with shared equity. On a Council estate if you complain about your neighbours you're likely to get a brick through your window, so the status quo remains.

We all know what the problems are, and mainly what causes them, the problem is how to deal with it?

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Message 1235754 - Posted: 24 May 2012, 9:11:27 UTC - in response to Message 1235690.

In our neighborhood it is all single family homes -- owner occupied mostly, even in the post bubble world. In addition to the regular trash pick up, each quarter there are 'large item' pickups. For the week prior to that one sometimes sees large items out front of homes - and then poof, they are gone. There also are scheduled drop off events for other goods (such as paint, tires and the like) for these you transport to a location about 2 miles away, produce a copy of your water bill (which includes the trash pickup cost) and then can drop off these items.





It's funny to read this thread now. I just watched and waited for almost a month while a (old) big-screen tv and dresser sat at the edge of the road in front of my neighbors house...

I started to think it was a cruel argument between the homeowners and the garbage company...

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Message 1235987 - Posted: 24 May 2012, 17:18:47 UTC

I think Chris has missed the point - its not about reducing the amount of waste gradually decaying in gardens but about raising money....
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Message 1236059 - Posted: 24 May 2012, 19:43:50 UTC

Sorry Rob, I diasgree.



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Message 1236077 - Posted: 24 May 2012, 20:13:13 UTC

You are allowed to
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Message 1236454 - Posted: 25 May 2012, 9:26:29 UTC

And isn't it nice to do so in a gentlemanly fashion, without any unpleasantness :-)

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Message 1236519 - Posted: 25 May 2012, 14:10:51 UTC

I say Old Boy, shall we continue this debate about the plans for the government to grab more of our money over a nice warm pint of ale?
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Message 1236529 - Posted: 25 May 2012, 14:32:26 UTC - in response to Message 1235987.

As opposed in other threads to raising Cain <g>

I think Chris has missed the point - its not about reducing the amount of waste gradually decaying in gardens but about raising money....

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