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bobby
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Message 1233465 - Posted: 19 May 2012, 15:13:21 UTC

In another thread I asked Guy to provide details of simple questions that he had posed which had been evaded or the answer lead him to wonder about the ignorance of the the author. The questions were not on topic in that thread, or indeed any other, so here's a thread to address them.


1. Summary of recent unanswered simple questions.

This post links these:

1.a. Gravity, speed of light.... ya ya, whatever. For those of you who point out these are not constants, or absolute truths, can you give examples of any constants or absolute truths? Or can you give any example of a fact that is independent of time and place?

1.b. Murder, abortion.... ya ya, whatever. For those of you who point out there is no right or wrong, do you believe anything is right or wrong?

1.c. Both sides are asking, basically, "How can you live thinking the way you do when there is so much that suggests the opposite?"

1.d. Is there *any* common point from which we can start?


2. How many kinds of absolutes are there? Pick one and along with it, describe its kind.

3. BTW, I've noticed nobody has answered my simple questions.

As far as I can tell the simple questions are 1.a. through 1.d. Unfortunately there's no link in this post.

4. Is there *any* common point from which we can start?

This is a link to 1.a. through 1.d.

5. how about we change our constitution to include better defined funamental rights *and duties* for the citizens?

6. what percentage should be private sector jobs?

7. What about those who think consciousness is nothing more than a chemical reaction

8. Why does congress vote unanimously against Obama's budgets?

9. How can *anyone* assert themselves when talking about their beliefs?

10. So, what you're trying to tell me is that this behavior is normal?


Guy, please feel free to add any more or provide corrections to the summary.

Other posters please stay on topic, for the moment that means seeking clarification or providing answers to this set of questions.


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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

bobby
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Message 1233515 - Posted: 19 May 2012, 17:01:37 UTC - in response to Message 1233465.

1.a. Gravity, speed of light.... ya ya, whatever. For those of you who point out these are not constants, or absolute truths, can you give examples of any constants or absolute truths? Or can you give any example of a fact that is independent of time and place?


None spring to mind.

1.b. Murder, abortion.... ya ya, whatever. For those of you who point out there is no right or wrong, do you believe anything is right or wrong?


If a person "points out there is no right or wrong", it seems to me that such a person does not believe anything is right or wrong. Having said that, I cannot recall reading a poster to these boards making the case that there are no right or wrongs.

1.c. Both sides are asking, basically, "How can you live thinking the way you do when there is so much that suggests the opposite?"


That may well be your view of some of the posts here, others may have different views. I suspect that few believe that living is in doubt when beliefs are contraindicated by physical reality unless those beliefs are about physical realities that pose a threat to continued existence (e.g. not believing in motorized transport may well lead to a fatal accident crossing a street).

1.d. Is there *any* common point from which we can start?


Possibly. Afraid this has to be an "evasive" answer, one can only respond for oneself. It seems to me that a common point may be a shared interest, and here we have SETI@home. Having said that there are some posters to these boards that do not believe that SETI@home is a scientific endeavor, so even that may not be something we all have in common.

2. How many kinds of absolutes are there? Pick one and along with it, describe its kind.


This was a response to a question I asked, "What kind of absolutes are you looking for us to respond with?". The post in which I asked this question referred to a previous post that sought clarification about questions 1.a through 1.d (or 4). Some might note that my request for clarification was a response to 3, and was posted before 1. Others may note that there was no response to my request for clarification.

Whatever. The question of absolutes arose in relation to science, and I suggested that science may not be the best place to find them, as it is my understanding that the scientific method requires that theories be falsifiable, and if a thing is falsifiable it seems to me that the thing cannot be absolute. I suspect that the same is true in other spheres, that there are no absolutes in our lives, though I understand my knowledge is limited, and there may well be some that do not occur to me.

3. BTW, I've noticed nobody has answered my simple questions.

As far as I can tell the simple questions are 1.a. through 1.d. Unfortunately there's no link in this post.


See above.

4. Is there *any* common point from which we can start?

This is a link to 1.a. through 1.d.


See above.

5. how about we change our constitution to include better defined funamental rights *and duties* for the citizens?


The changes seem to serve little purpose, the US is not the USSR.

6. what percentage should be private sector jobs?


Seems to me that this is a question that economists have argued over for many years without reaching a definitive conclusion. I suspect it is unanswerable.

7. What about those who think consciousness is nothing more than a chemical reaction


What of them? Can you show such people exist? If so, do any of their number post to these boards? If so, can you show that they are incorrect?

8. Why does congress vote unanimously against Obama's budgets?


To the best of my knowledge we do not have a contributor that is a Congressperson or a member of staff, or in regular direct contact, thus any answer will be speculative and thus not definitive. It seems to me that the individuals that make up Congress may have differing opinions on a President's budget request, and that it may be the case that it is rare for any to agree completely with the request. Whether this disagreements is sufficient to result in a "No" vote in any particular year could be the result of several considerations, including, though not limited to, whether the individual believes that the budget vote helps or hinders the individual's election chances.

9. How can *anyone* assert themselves when talking about their beliefs?


I am not sure one can assert oneself in any context, to assert is "to state with assurance". The question arose from a challenge to an assertion of Guy's, requesting the basis for his assurance:

In that case, why was your statement of belief in divine intervention specific about statistical distributions and the lack of credible scientific explanations? If you can't think of any examples, how can you assert that there are no explanations (other than the divine)?


The assertion was of a specific nature, "there is X, thus I believe Y", I requested details of X. None were provided.

10. So, what you're trying to tell me is that this behavior is normal?


As I'm not a regular participant in that thread I do not have a working knowledge of the context for this question. It seems to me that the basis of the question is whether it is "normal" for the Federal Government to invest directly in the private sector, which is a question I am not qualified to answer, though if I were to speculate I would imagine that the answer is a qualified "yes", the qualification being the extent of such investment.

In the specific case of GM, the extent took the form of partial ownership of a business concern that appeared to be on the verge of ceasing to exist. This may have been abnormal on a number of grounds, that it was targeted (rather than an industry sector investment, e.g. arms manufacture), that it resulted in ownership (rather than a grant or tax refund), etc.

Whether an individual believes that the Fed's ownership of GM is acceptable is, I suspect, a matter of whether that individual believes dogmatically that the Fed should not have such investments, or pragmatically the Fed can should the circumstances require them.

Guy, please feel free to add any more or provide corrections to the summary.

Other posters please stay on topic, for the moment that means seeking clarification or providing answers to this set of questions.


Guy, if in any of the above I've missed the point of the question, please help me get back to it. Likewise, if any seems evasive, please help me understand why they seem this way.

____________
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...


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Message 1234025 - Posted: 20 May 2012, 12:42:13 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 13:39:15 UTC

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Message 1234081 - Posted: 20 May 2012, 15:02:59 UTC - in response to Message 1234025.
Last modified: 20 May 2012, 15:03:38 UTC

So now you want to get back to this small list of unanswered questions? My point in the other thread is that when a question is asked that could potentially lead to a mutually beneficial discussion, it is ignored.

It would have been more appropriate to answer these when they were asked.

I must at least thank you for trying to answer them now; however, I don't believe trying to discuss each one of these here and now would lead anywhere productive now. And trying to discuss so many other thread topics in this one thread would be monumental.


Fair enough. I had some time to address the questions you asked, most of which appeared to be open to response by anyone, rather than directed at an individual. I believe the complaint about evasiveness and lack of responses that lead to the creation of this thread was mostly about on topic questions directed at specific individuals.

As for ignoring, I could make the case that chances are that from time to time questions will be overlooked, I imagine most posters have other things, and I highlighted at one such instance of an apparently overlooked question I asked of you. To be fair, there are other posters that appear to deliberately ignore questions that are repeatedly asked.

I might add that the 6th post to the Great Debate was a direct response to the final question of the 4th post to that thread:

So, I guess the the final question I ask in the 4th post of this thread has been answered. (I consider no answer in 5 days an answer)


and the 6th post did generate some further discussion.
____________
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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