Construction technics over time and 12000 miles apart.

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Larry Monske

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Message 1236083 - Posted: 24 May 2012, 20:34:55 UTC - in response to Message 1234338.  

The anthera device is fasinating for its sheer elegance a watchmaker would enjoy, its only 7000 years old. The fine gearing 46 gears i belive are finely done by hand or were they? Anyone who has ever had to do gear ratios would appreciate this achivement. Another thing we take for granted is the parthenon this specticular building its engineering is baffling.
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Message 1236678 - Posted: 25 May 2012, 19:17:05 UTC - in response to Message 1236083.  
Last modified: 25 May 2012, 19:21:34 UTC

7000 years old ????

Or 2000 +/- ?

And in answer to a previous post of yours,Machu Pichu is in the middle of a rain forest,
and was found when the trees were cut away.
On the pictures you see of it,you very rarely see the jungle which surrounds it,but when you
stand on Machu Pichu ,all you see around you are trees.

john3760

edit. and I think you will find it was a complete ruin when they found it,and has been " rebuilt"
a little bit since then ,but only a few of the buildings have been re- roofed.
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Message 1236692 - Posted: 25 May 2012, 19:52:17 UTC
Last modified: 25 May 2012, 19:52:46 UTC

I have seen how the stones could have been made so perfectly. It is a fit, and re-fit operation. They use rocks or what ever tools were at hand, and pound down a flat surface, leaving the dust where it is. Then when they think it is flat, they put the next block on top, which has already been worked flat on the bottom. Then they pick it up, and see where the dust either mounds up, or is pushed away. Then a second or third round of hammering out the unevenness, and everything fits perfectly. When you have thousands of laborors, and no deadline by the end of the day, all kinds of things can be accomplished.

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Message 1236706 - Posted: 25 May 2012, 20:07:26 UTC

It is difficult with big heavy stones, but works the same way. I'm not sure how long it took them to do each stone, but the instructions seemed to be as long as it takes until it is right. Then on to the next one.

It's interesting the same tequniques are still being used today. When something works, it works!

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Message 1237601 - Posted: 26 May 2012, 21:47:02 UTC - in response to Message 1236699.  
Last modified: 26 May 2012, 21:56:39 UTC

It is a fit, and re-fit operation. They use rocks or what ever tools were at hand, and pound down a flat surface, leaving the dust where it is. Then when they think it is flat, they put the next block on top, which has already been worked flat on the bottom. Then they pick it up, and see where the dust either mounds up, or is pushed away. Then a second or third round of hammering out the unevenness, and everything fits perfectly


That sounds very much to me like the procedure done by precision mechanical engineers, using engineers blue, to scrape two surfaces to mate. As an apprentice toolmaker I did it manty times. The point is that if the metal pieces were small enough you could "spot grind" the pair of them and not waste time! A bit difficult with large stones!


Wow Chris. I worked for a machine building company many years back. Reading Steve's post made me think of exactly that. The blue and the waxy brown stuff. Rub the two parts together, and hand scrape the high spots that get died blue.

And, In our shop, this scraping was done by hand, for LARGE machinery. Typically we used a crane or two to "rub" the two mating surfaces together. Ive seen a disk over 12ft in diameter hand scraped flat, took two guys about two weeks. They also did it with weigh surfaces, sometimes as much as 80FT long.(about 27 meters)

Some of the parts we worked on were upwards of 100,000 pounds.

When the scraping is done properly, there is LESS than .0005" variance.

For reference, this is the typical size machinery being worked on at that company..

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Message 1237737 - Posted: 27 May 2012, 2:10:43 UTC - in response to Message 1236083.  

this specticular building its engineering is baffling.


We have an exact copy of the Parthenon right here in Nashville. No sweat at all, it was built for the Centennial of Tennessee in 1897. They don't call Nashville the "Athens of the South" for nothing

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Message 1237744 - Posted: 27 May 2012, 2:22:57 UTC - in response to Message 1237737.  

We have an exact copy of the Parthenon right here in Nashville. No sweat at all, it was built for the Centennial of Tennessee in 1897. They don't call Nashville the "Athens of the South" for nothing


That's something they never tell you when they say "wow, how did they do that"

Thanks for that tidbit, it's something I did not know.

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Message 1238263 - Posted: 27 May 2012, 21:57:03 UTC - in response to Message 1237737.  

The parthenon is what 3000 years old alot of fine tuning went into that building with no plans that can be found. Some fine work there. Think it was 800 BC some fine minds existed at that time. That isnt the oldest greek construction but a fine example.
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Message 1241253 - Posted: 4 Jun 2012, 19:10:47 UTC - in response to Message 1236692.  

You to set a multi-ton stone it becomes impractical once the rock is set down and dont fit. The lentils on the rulers palace the dateway to the sun has 10 ton stones set perfectly at about 10 feet.. A lot of measureing and one set of the stone.
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Message 1242401 - Posted: 6 Jun 2012, 18:49:48 UTC - in response to Message 1237949.  

The tomb in the Cheops pyramid its insides are .002 over 10 feet and cut from one piece of hard black granite. Amazing work for so many thousands of years ago, yet it was learned from somewhere even older engineers were teaching these techniques. Where did they learn this thats the mystery greeks were the same way somewhere they learned this technique long before.
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Message 1242407 - Posted: 6 Jun 2012, 19:06:08 UTC - in response to Message 1242401.  

Why did they have to learn it from a mysterious "somewhere" or "someone"? Why couldn't they have figured it out on their own? I think that you're selling our ancestors short if you think they were too primitive to figure it out.
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Message 1242693 - Posted: 7 Jun 2012, 9:03:41 UTC - in response to Message 1242675.  

It's more likely that building knowledge was transferred orally, from master to disciple and so on, in the Cimabue-Giotto tradition. In Central and South America there was not even a written language. Egyptians used hieroglyph.
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Message 1242699 - Posted: 7 Jun 2012, 9:23:55 UTC - in response to Message 1242675.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2012, 9:28:59 UTC

We would have great difficulty constructing some of these stone edifices today even with 21st Century machinery,


This is a myth that needs to be dropped from folklore and mis-understanding. We would not have "great" difficulty at all. Any difficulty that we might have would be far less than those of the ancients.

The Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco is testimony to our modern mathematics, physics, engineering and construction prowess. It is 75 years old.
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Message 1242704 - Posted: 7 Jun 2012, 9:53:34 UTC - in response to Message 1242699.  

Probably the building methods of the ancients were more costly in term of human lives, also from slave labor. Just as an example, the Cupola of the Duomo di Firenze was built by Filippo Brunelleschi without any scaffolding, which would be impossible today because of safety norms.
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Message 1242887 - Posted: 7 Jun 2012, 17:04:13 UTC
Last modified: 7 Jun 2012, 17:05:36 UTC

Guys,
Some really good discussion going on here. But i would like to add a few points;

Yes, as several people pointed out, you don't need alien technology to build any of the ancient monuments. We can, just about, explain HOW they built monuments like the pyramids.

But here is the point that most people are missing;

It should NOT be questionable HOW and WHY these monuments were built!! This point is critical!!!

Lets use William Rothamel's example of the Golden Gate bridge.
Nobody today goes around arguing about how or why they built the Golden Gate bridge. We know exactly how they built it, and we know exactly why they built the Golden Gate bridge. Its a marvel of modern construction, and amazing to see. But its form, its construction and its function are so glaringly obvious that nobody is debating it, or discussing it. Its a bridge to get from point A to point B, simple!.

So when we look back at ancient human history, if you believe mainstream archaeology, these people were "less advanced" than us. So whatever they built, pyramids, tombs, palaces or whatever, their form, construction and function should also be glaringly obvious. There should be no debate what-so-ever about anything they were doing. If they were "less advanced" than us, then EVERYTHING they built should be really easy to explain.

But this is not the case!! In almost every ancient site in the world, in every country in the world, there are VERY SERIOUS DISCREPANCIES in the mainstream view of what these people were doing and how they built these massive monuments.

John.
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Message 1243171 - Posted: 8 Jun 2012, 3:51:05 UTC - in response to Message 1242887.  
Last modified: 8 Jun 2012, 4:15:55 UTC

And what was the purpose of the Apollo project? To bring back some rocks from the Moon? No, its purpose was that of uniting the American people, to give them a common goal to be achieved. So this was the purpose of the builders of the great Pyramids, to unite the Egyptian people. This is the thesis of the German physicist Kurt Mendelssohn in his book "The rise and fall of German science".
Tullio
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Message 1243291 - Posted: 8 Jun 2012, 13:47:59 UTC
Last modified: 8 Jun 2012, 14:04:29 UTC

Tullio,
Your missing the point.

In every country in the world:
When we excavate sites from 7,000 years ago, they are DIFFICULT to interpret!
When we excavate sites from 6,000 years ago, they are DIFFICULT to interpret!
When we excavate sites from 5,000 years ago, they are DIFFICULT to interpret!
When we excavate sites from 4,000 years ago, they are DIFFICULT to interpret!

You could almost draw a time line in world history where everything changed! That time line is roughly 4,000 years ago!

In every country in the world:
When we excavate sites from 3,000 years ago, they are EASY to interpret!
When we excavate sites from 2,000 years ago, they are EASY to interpret!
When we excavate sites from 1,000 years ago, they are EASY to interpret!
When we excavate sites from 500 years ago, they are EASY to interpret!

Something was going on here on earth, in countries all over the world, before 4,000 years ago, and the buildings and structures we find on these sites are very unusual and their function is DIFFICULT to explain.

But when we excavate sites in every country in the world after about 4,000 years ago, the sites and the buildings are easy to interpret.

Something was going on here on earth before 4,000 years ago, and we don't know what they were doing! And i might also add, this is not just my personal interpretation. The vast majority of archaeologists would agree with that statement. Many archaeological books describe this change in world history that happened about 4,000 years ago.

John.
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Message 1243296 - Posted: 8 Jun 2012, 14:08:04 UTC - in response to Message 1243291.  

There's logically going to be a point in any civilization's history where recorded history and historical facts are minimal at best. That certainly doesn't suggest anything in particular happened except that people starting writing stuff down the best they could (on whatever medium they could find).
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Message 1243302 - Posted: 8 Jun 2012, 14:25:07 UTC - in response to Message 1243291.  

In the Island of Crete we have written record starting in the third millennium before Christ (linear A) and they don't mention anything catastrophic. The only catastrophe was the volcano eruption in the island Thera/Santorini (1450 b.c) which generated a tsunami destroying the Crete fleet. So Crete was conquered by the Mycenaean coming from mainland Greece and that was the end of the Minoan civilization, one of the most splendid in the whole history of mankind. In the Thera island the town of Akrotiri, buried by the ashes like Pompeii is being excavated and shows all the riches of that civilization, which was peaceful.
Tullio.

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Message 1243594 - Posted: 9 Jun 2012, 1:32:58 UTC - in response to Message 1243424.  


The King James Bible says 4004 BC.

(I refuse to use BCE just to pacify minority religions)

I will always use BC too Chris. BCE and CE are used to appease the atheists who want to kill off God.

Well this is what i say;

God bless all! And thank God we can come here and have these interesting discussions! God is good!

John.
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