2012 - real or not?


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Message 1231991 - Posted: 14 May 2012, 14:08:00 UTC - in response to Message 1231610.
Last modified: 14 May 2012, 14:10:54 UTC

So Johnney, you're saying that you're not far enough along in your research...

Ozzfan,
I made my major break-through on the 29th December 2010. I started discussing it here on these SETI forums about 4 months later, around April 2011. Since then i have been quietly carrying out the research full time.

An auspicious date for one particular calendar and for great reverie. The second is a well known quirk of taxation and tomfoolery.

And "full time" is quite a dedication.

For such extensive work, a very good idea is to stop and check and publish to have others to comment on smaller sections rather than find that you may have spent a very long time wandering along an unfruitful path...


... attempt to 100% scientifically verify...

Science is rarely "100%" for anything. Which is why by following Science you can learn new things.


... an ancient book that was written by God himself...

Why would "God" write such a thing?


... I'm currently stuck in the research because there are several problems preventing me from translating the pages...


Oh no... Here we get to the Nigerian scam formula...


... Many of the pages of the book are so badly damaged that they can never be read...

If "God" had gone to the trouble of publishing a book, would not that book not be made to be immortal and readable forever? Or at least republished at frequent intervals?


... As for dates, no, so far i have not found any page in the book that gives me a clear date or time-frame for the return of these people that wrote the book...

So "God" is more than one person?


... the people who wrote the book are immortal...

So why do they not maintain the book to be updated and readable?


... If the people who wrote the book were immortal, they would also be capable of returning at any stage....

"They" are not "here"? Why did they go away? Why would "they" come back?


As i see it, one of two things are going to happen;
1. I myself am going to decode the book and publish it in modern English for anyone to read. ...

I'm sure you can do a much better job than that of von Däniken, and possibly more profitably so! You'd be kept in Guinness for life!! :-)


2. They themselves, the people that wrote the book, will return and tell us about the book, and how to read it. ...

How so and why? And why now?


... If its not me that decodes the book, then someone else will. ...

Now that would make for an excellent "double blind" experiment to 'prove' the science... Would you and someone else both agree on what to write and how?


...God is a flesh and blood human being just like you and me. The only difference is that God has "cracked" all of science, and as a result, he has cracked immortality. God is an immortal human being. ...

So how can that work? And does the taxman know?


...No, i have no date. And as i said before, its down to how fast i decode the book. I could make a massive break-through tomorrow, or it could be another year, i just can't say. The book is very old and difficult to work with. ...

Back to the Nigeria scam formula...

(It's amazing what some countries export!)


... If i was to try to give a name to this book, i would describe it as "The book of Life". The Bible is a written explanation of what happened down in the middle east thousands of years ago. This book i have, "The book of Life" is a scientific explanation of what happened.

Why and how would the "ancients" know better than us? And if so, how/why did they and their ideas die out?

Darwin had some very persuasive ideas that so far still hold true... Such is Science.


Keep searchin',
Martin
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Message 1232220 - Posted: 14 May 2012, 22:59:28 UTC - in response to Message 1231991.
Last modified: 14 May 2012, 23:16:57 UTC

Martin,
You asked a lot of good questions, so i'm going to take the time to answer all of them!

So Johnney, you're saying that you're not far enough along in your research...

Ozzfan,
I made my major break-through on the 29th December 2010. I started discussing it here on these SETI forums about 4 months later, around April 2011. Since then i have been quietly carrying out the research full time.

An auspicious date for one particular calendar and for great reverie. The second is a well known quirk of taxation and tomfoolery.

And "full time" is quite a dedication.

For such extensive work, a very good idea is to stop and check and publish to have others to comment on smaller sections rather than find that you may have spent a very long time wandering along an unfruitful path...

Martin thats a very qood suggestion, to publish NOW so that other people can check the work. The problem - If i published right now, i would not currently have amassed enough scientific evidence to prove my point. Right now today, lots of the decoding work would look like guess work. I need scientific proof for everything i publish. And getting scientific proof of anything can take years to do it properly.

... attempt to 100% scientifically verify...

Science is rarely "100%" for anything. Which is why by following Science you can learn new things.


... an ancient book that was written by God himself...

Why would "God" write such a thing?

Thats a good question Martin, and i have asked the same thing. I'm not 100% sure yet, but it would appear that they wrote the book specifically so that it would be found at a later time and date. The language in the book is pure science and the simple fact is this - Nobody was ever going to be able to read the book until this moment in time. In other words, its only now in the year 2012, and with the help of freely available scientific information on the internet, that i am now able to attempt to decode the book. Nobody would have been able before now simply because mankind did not have enough scientific problems solved to allow us to decode the book.



... I'm currently stuck in the research because there are several problems preventing me from translating the pages...


Oh no... Here we get to the Nigerian scam formula...


... Many of the pages of the book are so badly damaged that they can never be read...

If "God" had gone to the trouble of publishing a book, would not that book not be made to be immortal and readable forever? Or at least republished at frequent intervals?





Yes, your right. Its funny you mentioned that Martin. Because there are actually several copies of the book. And believe it or not, they are spread across several countries, this book is big. But its more like there are kind of "chapters" of the book in different countries. So in theory, lets say the "chapter" in Egypt gets dammaged because people dammaged it cos they did not know what it was. Then we still have other chapters in other countries that are not dammaged. So its true, in some places, many "chapters" of the book are not readable any more. But in other places, the chapters of the book are almost perfect, as if they were written yesterday. Its these un-dammaged chapters that i am working with.

Another thing worth noting here. When they wrote the book, there is 1 copy that is fully protected and its in 100% perfect condition. I don't have access to this "perfect" copy of the book, but its there, and i know where it is. Its very safe!! And its perfect!



... As for dates, no, so far i have not found any page in the book that gives me a clear date or time-frame for the return of these people that wrote the book...

So "God" is more than one person?




Yes, read the bible, especially the old testiment. There are loads of peope in the bible that do "God like things". Plus all the other religions of the world, who don't follow the christian bible. In India, they have, or had, thousands of gods.


... the people who wrote the book are immortal...

So why do they not maintain the book to be updated and readable?




You can't come back and make edits to a book that is locked up inside a glass case in the Cairo Museum.


... If the people who wrote the book were immortal, they would also be capable of returning at any stage....

"They" are not "here"? Why did they go away? Why would "they" come back?




I will ask them once i find out who they are and where they are. Martin i don't have all the answers.



As i see it, one of two things are going to happen;
1. I myself am going to decode the book and publish it in modern English for anyone to read. ...

I'm sure you can do a much better job than that of von Däniken, and possibly more profitably so! You'd be kept in Guinness for life!! :-)




I'm not doing this for the money. And to be honest, i fully expect my publication to rejected as soon as its published, even though it will be correct. But in time, scientists around the world will hear about the book and will start verifying the information in the book. I really don't care if i never make a penny from this. I don't even want to write a book, i'm not a writter or an acedimic. I'm only doing it because i feel i'm forced to do it.


2. They themselves, the people that wrote the book, will return and tell us about the book, and how to read it. ...

How so and why? And why now?




Its only at this point in human history that we are starting to master scientific things. Its only now that we have the solutions to many scientific problems. And its only now, at this moment in time, that we have started to alter the genetic code for plants and animals. If you eat cerial for your brekfast, its probally been cross contanimated with GM stranes of crops. Genetically modified stuff is everywhere. And scientists in labs around the world are "creating" new genetically modified insects and animals, its just not being published so you never hear about it.


... If its not me that decodes the book, then someone else will. ...

Now that would make for an excellent "double blind" experiment to 'prove' the science... Would you and someone else both agree on what to write and how?




Yes, there is only one translation of the book. If someone else beats me too it, they will be saying the same thing as me.


...God is a flesh and blood human being just like you and me. The only difference is that God has "cracked" all of science, and as a result, he has cracked immortality. God is an immortal human being. ...

So how can that work? And does the taxman know?


...No, i have no date. And as i said before, its down to how fast i decode the book. I could make a massive break-through tomorrow, or it could be another year, i just can't say. The book is very old and difficult to work with. ...

Back to the Nigeria scam formula...

(It's amazing what some countries export!)


... If i was to try to give a name to this book, i would describe it as "The book of Life". The Bible is a written explanation of what happened down in the middle east thousands of years ago. This book i have, "The book of Life" is a scientific explanation of what happened.

Why and how would the "ancients" know better than us? And if so, how/why did they and their ideas die out?
[/quote]
Martin most of the answers are actually in the bible if you read it. I'm not very religious so i'm not good with bible stuff. As far as i'm aware, they, the Elohim, a group of scientists were here on Earth happily doing genetic experiments creating plants and animals and one group broke the rule and created an "intelligent" being, us humans. Once they created us, they saw that we were just like them and they "Loved us". Its find to do genetic experiments on animals, if it goes wrong, you can destroy the animal. But its more difficult when your experiment is a human baby that looks just like you. So the rest of what happened is in the bible if you want to read the book of Genesis yourself.



Darwin had some very persuasive ideas that so far still hold true... Such is Science.


Keep searchin',
Martin


Sorry about the quote mistakes, its hard to reply to a long message with lots of questions Martin.

John.
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Message 1232242 - Posted: 14 May 2012, 23:37:30 UTC

I personally look forward to the day when Johneeys researchs bearfruit or not...at such a point he and we will know something wondefull or not. He in MHO is fringe researcher...we need these. They are ofcourse "Wacky" and just by there nature and ethusiasm invite RHetoric and invalidation. The latter are ofcourse humerous and self satisfying and defend the conventional model of existence and its limits and standrd deviations....thats allowed

I have no idea whether or not JOnney is nuts or nut,, he apprently likes guiness so I guess thats a goood thing in his favour:)

There is no harm here...no reall effort to convert to some biazzree altwrnate view of extistence..He allegences posssion of certain documents so my view is lets support him with good will and see what happemns.

I personally dont buy in into extrondiary precidences and interventions that have no evidence but life is strange and suprising sometimes . For example we take for granted the Wisdom of Greek Mathematics which has been passed on right into our educational curriculum in an unitterupted manner. Consider ! a different hypothetical course of history where such knwoledge was lost or hidden (A la Alexandreia Libraby event WTFKs what was lost there ).


MAybe Johenny is ont0 to something may be not..who knows...it would be gracefull to grant him a forum without dissecting every vowel he utters...its called kindness:)

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Message 1232247 - Posted: 14 May 2012, 23:50:32 UTC - in response to Message 1232242.

No, we need less nutjobs to confuse the masses. Since Johnney mentioned the Elohim, I know exactly what thought process he subscribes to, and what wacky thoughts he believes.

I feel really sad for him, because he's going to devote most of his life trying to believe in this fiction, like Linus believing in the Great Pumpkin, and he's going to end up dead wrong but still clinging to his faith.

Does it hurt anyone? No, not in the violent sense. But it is hurtful to humanity and to the real scientists trying to find the real answers to have people like Johnney mislead the public with his outlandish claims.

He'll never be finished with his work because his work is nothing but rubbish. Its nothing more than trying to fit a crackpot theory into science (like Intelligent Design) and insisting that it holds truth... but with Johnney, and those like him, they believe that we will all know "soon".


See, those who believe in the Elohim insist that the group of Gods will return to Earth by the year 2035 by the latest. Johnney was trying to utilize the buzz surrounding the Mayan calendar to say that "around" this date was going to be the return of the Elohim. He won't commit to a specific date because he can't. He doesn't have any definitive timeframes for his belief, and neither does any of the other crackpot nutjobs that believe the same bogus conspiracy.



No, we don't need more of this. We need data backed by observation. He's not a "fringe" scientist or explorer, he's a lost person. He's told me in past conversations that he's not a very well educated man; that he was "athiest" during his rebellious teenage years; that he was always told that he would be the "priest" of his family.

Now he's using his lack of education and the internet to track down things beyond his understanding - but it doesn't matter because he will use what he finds to fit his hypothesis. His "atheism" was merely him losing himself, and this New Age Elohim idea is his way of fulfilling his family's suggestion that he will become some sort of "priest" or leader.

He's still a very lost person looking to find meaning, and he's found salvation in the Great Pumpkin - I mean the Elohim. Its a sad, sad thing to get caught up in conspiracies. Its even sadder to lack the critical thinking processes to actually realize when the gig is up.

Sorry Johnney.

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Message 1232252 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 0:00:11 UTC - in response to Message 1232242.

I personally look forward to the day when Johneeys researchs bearfruit or not...at such a point he and we will know something wondefull or not. He in MHO is fringe researcher...we need these. They are ofcourse "Wacky" and just by there nature and ethusiasm invite RHetoric and invalidation. The latter are ofcourse humerous and self satisfying and defend the conventional model of existence and its limits and standrd deviations....thats allowed

I have no idea whether or not JOnney is nuts or nut,, he apprently likes guiness so I guess thats a goood thing in his favour:)

There is no harm here...no reall effort to convert to some biazzree altwrnate view of extistence..He allegences posssion of certain documents so my view is lets support him with good will and see what happemns.

I personally dont buy in into extrondiary precidences and interventions that have no evidence but life is strange and suprising sometimes . For example we take for granted the Wisdom of Greek Mathematics which has been passed on right into our educational curriculum in an unitterupted manner. Consider ! a different hypothetical course of history where such knwoledge was lost or hidden (A la Alexandreia Libraby event WTFKs what was lost there ).


MAybe Johenny is ont0 to something may be not..who knows...it would be gracefull to grant him a forum without dissecting every vowel he utters...its called kindness:)

Des O'Connor,
Thank you Des! It was very humbling for me to read your reply. I'm quite touched and emotional to get a response like that from someone else who works in the scientific community.

Des, yes your right. The scientific investigation i am carrying out is very left-wing and its not mainstream science. Its very controversial and i need to be very methodical in providing verifiable scientific evidence to back-up my claims. Des if i can't compile scientific evidence to back-up my claim, then i won't be publishing anything. I'm only doing this if i can prove what i have scientifically.

I'm claiming that i found scientific evidence for a race of God like people that were here genetically engineering plants and animals thousands of years ago. Now thats a mighty claim and its going to need substantial scientific proof. What i am saying is that i have been compiling that proof for the last year and a half. Once i have compiled enough evidence, i will go public. If i don't find enough evidence, then i won't be publishing anything and nothing will change.

Des thank you being open minded to understand that i'm trying my best here and i don't have a million dollar budget to carry out the research. I'm trying my best with what i have. I'm just some ordinary bloke that accedentially discovered something very big. Now i'm taking the time to document what i found. This forum here at SETI is the only place i come to discuss this. Thanks Des.

John.
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Message 1232258 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 0:12:48 UTC - in response to Message 1232247.
Last modified: 15 May 2012, 0:14:55 UTC

......
No, we don't need more of this. We need data backed by observation. He's not a "fringe" scientist or explorer, he's a lost person. He's told me in past conversations that he's not a very well educated man; that he was "athiest" during his rebellious teenage years; that he was always told that he would be the "priest" of his family.

Now he's using his lack of education and the internet to track down things beyond his understanding - but it doesn't matter because he will use what he finds to fit his hypothesis. His "atheism" was merely him losing himself, and this New Age Elohim idea is his way of fulfilling his family's suggestion that he will become some sort of "priest" or leader.

He's still a very lost person looking to find meaning, and he's found salvation in the Great Pumpkin - I mean the Elohim. Its a sad, sad thing to get caught up in conspiracies. Its even sadder to lack the critical thinking processes to actually realize when the gig is up.

Sorry Johnney.

Ozzfan,
You have a good memory. You remembered almost everything i said about my teenage years. I agree with you, that was a good psychological analyses of me and my state of mind.

Yea Ozzfan, maybe your right. Maybe i am following my own fantasy and trying to make it become reality. But i'm not alone here! Seemingly 95% of the world population seem to follow one religion or another. So i guess i'm just one of those fools that believes there is something greater going on that we are currently unaware of.

John.
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Message 1232261 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 0:18:11 UTC

Some of the real scientists in my profession were publically redicluled and reduced to plulp priorly because of their wacky ideas. For example the Doctor (Dutch) who way ahead of Fleming suggested that post natal septicimia might have some thing to do with Doctors not wasHing there hands between inspecting infected patients and those who were not. He was ostricated by the Gentle men of the day and never worked again. Fleming proved his hypothesis was corrected many years latter and against all odds.

I do agree,Volunter, with most of your points but I dont think JOnheeny is trying to convet the masses. If we all had dinner and few glasses of wine with him he might become a wacky friend..thATS ALL im promoting.

He is going on to post for sure no matter what we think. Unfriendlniess and invalidation in the form of some posts posts I witnnesssed.. I suspect wont invalidate him.

The Elhoiem are almost certainly imaginary IMHO...a romantic wimsy..or whatever..who knows.

My postion is simply this...JOhnney is highly probaley a wack case as you assert...I could be wrong... futher my postion is give the guy a little space...its a forum ...He is also a producer ..look athis stats lets have fun and be friendly ...Here its not the lead artical in Nature..the world does not come here for its opinions.

:)

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Message 1232268 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 0:45:31 UTC - in response to Message 1232252.

I personally look forward to the day when Johneeys researchs bearfruit or not...at such a point he and we will know something wondefull or not. He in MHO is fringe researcher...we need these. They are ofcourse "Wacky" and just by there nature and ethusiasm invite RHetoric and invalidation. The latter are ofcourse humerous and self satisfying and defend the conventional model of existence and its limits and standrd deviations....thats allowed

I have no idea whether or not JOnney is nuts or nut,, he apprently likes guiness so I guess thats a goood thing in his favour:)

There is no harm here...no reall effort to convert to some biazzree altwrnate view of extistence..He allegences posssion of certain documents so my view is lets support him with good will and see what happemns.

I personally dont buy in into extrondiary precidences and interventions that have no evidence but life is strange and suprising sometimes . For example we take for granted the Wisdom of Greek Mathematics which has been passed on right into our educational curriculum in an unitterupted manner. Consider ! a different hypothetical course of history where such knwoledge was lost or hidden (A la Alexandreia Libraby event WTFKs what was lost there ).


MAybe Johenny is ont0 to something may be not..who knows...it would be gracefull to grant him a forum without dissecting every vowel he utters...its called kindness:)

Des O'Connor,
Thank you Des! It was very humbling for me to read your reply. I'm quite touched and emotional to get a response like that from someone else who works in the scientific community.

Des, yes your right. The scientific investigation i am carrying out is very left-wing and its not mainstream science. Its very controversial and i need to be very methodical in providing verifiable scientific evidence to back-up my claims. Des if i can't compile scientific evidence to back-up my claim, then i won't be publishing anything. I'm only doing this if i can prove what i have scientifically.

I'm claiming that i found scientific evidence for a race of God like people that were here genetically engineering plants and animals thousands of years ago. Now thats a mighty claim and its going to need substantial scientific proof. What i am saying is that i have been compiling that proof for the last year and a half. Once i have compiled enough evidence, i will go public. If i don't find enough evidence, then i won't be publishing anything and nothing will change.

Des thank you being open minded to understand that i'm trying my best here and i don't have a million dollar budget to carry out the research. I'm trying my best with what i have. I'm just some ordinary bloke that accedentially discovered something very big. Now i'm taking the time to document what i found. This forum here at SETI is the only place i come to discuss this. Thanks Des.

John.



That response seems balanced to me ...no evidence poof hypthesis over :)

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Message 1232271 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 0:55:33 UTC - in response to Message 1232258.

Yea Ozzfan, maybe your right. Maybe i am following my own fantasy and trying to make it become reality. But i'm not alone here! Seemingly 95% of the world population seem to follow one religion or another. So i guess i'm just one of those fools that believes there is something greater going on that we are currently unaware of.


Despite belief to the contrary, millions of people can be wrong, and have been wrong for centuries. Only now are the masses finally realizing how wrong we were.

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Message 1232272 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 0:57:11 UTC - in response to Message 1232268.
Last modified: 15 May 2012, 0:58:31 UTC


That response seems balanced to me ...no evidence poof hypthesis over :)

Thanks Des,
Yes, thats the way i see it. I'm not doing this research because i "believe in God". I'm doing the research because other people believe in God and i want to know if they know something that modern science does not know. Like i say, i don't care if i evolved from a monkey or if God like aliens came down from the sky and created me. I don't care either way. But i do want to know who is telling the truth and who is telling lies. And, when you actually go and check, there are big holes in the Darwinian monkey story. So i'm simply checking the other "God" version of the story to see if there is any fact in it.

John.
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Message 1232273 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 1:00:13 UTC - in response to Message 1232261.

Some of the real scientists in my profession were publically redicluled and reduced to plulp priorly because of their wacky ideas. For example the Doctor (Dutch) who way ahead of Fleming suggested that post natal septicimia might have some thing to do with Doctors not wasHing there hands between inspecting infected patients and those who were not. He was ostricated by the Gentle men of the day and never worked again. Fleming proved his hypothesis was corrected many years latter and against all odds.


I guarantee you that Johnney is not in that same company.

I do agree,Volunter, with most of your points but I dont think JOnheeny is trying to convet the masses. If we all had dinner and few glasses of wine with him he might become a wacky friend..thATS ALL im promoting.


I'm not making judgement against his character. I'm sure Johnney, the person, is or can be a cool dude. I'm just saying that he's mixed up in the wrong stuff and his level of fanaticism to his belief is more than scary.

He is going on to post for sure no matter what we think. Unfriendlniess and invalidation in the form of some posts posts I witnnesssed.. I suspect wont invalidate him.


No, it won't invalidate him, but certainly if we prod enough he might start using his critical thinking process. Which is why so many of us are patiently waiting for his "due date" to pass so perhaps he will realize the folly of his ways.

My postion is simply this...JOhnney is highly probaley a wack case as you assert...I could be wrong... futher my postion is give the guy a little space...its a forum ...He is also a producer ..look athis stats lets have fun and be friendly ...Here its not the lead artical in Nature..the world does not come here for its opinions.

:)


Johnney is simply mixed up with the wrong bag of nuts. Most conspiracy theorists can be perfectly fine people. They just tend to add the wrong numbers together. Some are legitimately nuts, and there's nothing against the law with that. I used to work for a nursing home for the mentally ill who made far less sense than Johnney, which is why I don't think he's crazy. I assert that he's throwing away curiosity down the wrong path in his search for meaning in his life.

I know, because I've been there.

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Message 1232274 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 1:02:38 UTC - in response to Message 1232272.

Yes, thats the way i see it. I'm not doing this research because i "believe in God". I'm doing the research because other people believe in God and i want to know if they know something that modern science does not know. Like i say, i don't care if i evolved from a monkey or if God like aliens came down from the sky and created me. I don't care either way. But i do want to know who is telling the truth and who is telling lies. And, when you actually go and check, there are big holes in the Darwinian monkey story. So i'm simply checking the other "God" version of the story to see if there is any fact in it.


Try not to let the far right-wing nuts confuse you on Darwinism. You can claim holes in any scientific theory if you poke around the margins of science long enough. But lack of understanding the Universe doesn't mean there's a hole in the theory, it simply means we need more data.

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Message 1232279 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 1:12:58 UTC - in response to Message 1232273.

Some of the real scientists in my profession were publically redicluled and reduced to plulp priorly because of their wacky ideas. For example the Doctor (Dutch) who way ahead of Fleming suggested that post natal septicimia might have some thing to do with Doctors not wasHing there hands between inspecting infected patients and those who were not. He was ostricated by the Gentle men of the day and never worked again. Fleming proved his hypothesis was corrected many years latter and against all odds.


I guarantee you that Johnney is not in that same company.

I do agree,Volunter, with most of your points but I dont think JOnheeny is trying to convet the masses. If we all had dinner and few glasses of wine with him he might become a wacky friend..thATS ALL im promoting.


I'm not making judgement against his character. I'm sure Johnney, the person, is or can be a cool dude. I'm just saying that he's mixed up in the wrong stuff and his level of fanaticism to his belief is more than scary.

He is going on to post for sure no matter what we think. Unfriendlniess and invalidation in the form of some posts posts I witnnesssed.. I suspect wont invalidate him.


No, it won't invalidate him, but certainly if we prod enough he might start using his critical thinking process. Which is why so many of us are patiently waiting for his "due date" to pass so perhaps he will realize the folly of his ways.

My postion is simply this...JOhnney is highly probaley a wack case as you assert...I could be wrong... futher my postion is give the guy a little space...its a forum ...He is also a producer ..look athis stats lets have fun and be friendly ...Here its not the lead artical in Nature..the world does not come here for its opinions.

:)


Johnney is simply mixed up with the wrong bag of nuts. Most conspiracy theorists can be perfectly fine people. They just tend to add the wrong numbers together. Some are legitimately nuts, and there's nothing against the law with that. I used to work for a nursing home for the mentally ill who made far less sense than Johnney, which is why I don't think he's crazy. I assert that he's throwing away curiosity down the wrong path in his search for meaning in his life.

I know, because I've been there.


Ive been there to my friend...seduced by some one else's hallicintion of reality or some philosphy or other or some idea or postion... which in retrospect and in the light of experience and fact was infact dellusionay and by some means enforced. FOrtunetasley I survived..realtively intackt..ha free to think, have a cigarette and drink when I want. WHat I have learned in this life of business and realtionships and what ever else and which seems to work ..at least for me is be kind...it costs nothing but Huberis.

D :)

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Message 1232280 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 1:13:45 UTC - in response to Message 1232274.
Last modified: 15 May 2012, 1:15:06 UTC

Yes, thats the way i see it. I'm not doing this research because i "believe in God". I'm doing the research because other people believe in God and i want to know if they know something that modern science does not know. Like i say, i don't care if i evolved from a monkey or if God like aliens came down from the sky and created me. I don't care either way. But i do want to know who is telling the truth and who is telling lies. And, when you actually go and check, there are big holes in the Darwinian monkey story. So i'm simply checking the other "God" version of the story to see if there is any fact in it.


Try not to let the far right-wing nuts confuse you on Darwinism. You can claim holes in any scientific theory if you poke around the margins of science long enough. But lack of understanding the Universe doesn't mean there's a hole in the theory, it simply means we need more data.

Ozzfan,
Thats what i am doing. Just to ammuse myself, i hang out on a SETI alien hunting website forum and do research into unusual things. As far as i'm concerned, its no worse that any other hobby or pastime. Some people follow Manchester UTD in their free time, some people collect stamps, some people go running, some people do nitting, some people modify cars and race them. I'm doing what i like to do in my spare time, i research the wierd and wonderful because it pasases the time. I do scientific research to try to find God. Its no worse than following the football on the telly. Thats life!

John.
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Message 1232294 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 2:38:07 UTC - in response to Message 1232280.

Thats what i am doing. Just to ammuse myself, i hang out on a SETI alien hunting website forum and do research into unusual things. As far as i'm concerned, its no worse that any other hobby or pastime. Some people follow Manchester UTD in their free time, some people collect stamps, some people go running, some people do nitting, some people modify cars and race them. I'm doing what i like to do in my spare time, i research the wierd and wonderful because it pasases the time. I do scientific research to try to find God. Its no worse than following the football on the telly. Thats life!


But you're looking for a lie; false promises and fanciful life.


Did you know that the famous magician, Houdini, devoted his life to proving that the supernatural was nothing but smoke and mirrors after his mother passed away because he felt that the lie of an afterlife was so hurtful that he did not want others to feel the same pain? As a person who spent his whole life tricking people using "magic", he came to realize that so many people believed so much in this trickery that they actually wanted to be fooled, which is why so many people fall for the stuff that the likes of Chris Angel or David Copperfield.

The point is, life is very interesting and beautiful the way it is. We don't need stories of gods or unicorns to make them have meaning. We don't need immortal life to know that the life we live right now is most important.

There are far better hobbies out there that can actually do good for all of mankind than to actually believe some group of Elohims is coming to give us knowledge beyond our time. As much as you want to believe, you're going to be sorely disappointed when nothing happens, and somewhere deep down you know that nothing will happen.

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Message 1232339 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 5:32:26 UTC
Last modified: 15 May 2012, 5:43:08 UTC

Ozzfan,
Sometimes Fiction becomes Fact,
Sometimes Magic becomes Reality,
Sometimes Myth becomes Truth,
And sometimes Science Fiction becomes Science Reality.

I'm sorry Ozzfan that your unable to come on this journey with me. What is about to happen to humanity is magical, its going to be very beautiful. Magic things are about to happen in real life, right before your very eyes. Some of these things are happening right now, but you just don't seem to notice them. They are happening all around you. But Ozzfan you have to open your eyes to see these things. I cannot open your eyes for you. You have to do it yourself.

Ozzfan if you take off the Darwinian shoes you are wearing, i will personally carry you on my shoulders into the Kingdom of Heaven with me.

John 3:7 -> To enter the kingdom of heaven, you must be born again.
The lord is my Shepherd, he guides me through the valley of darkness and shows me the light.
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Message 1232418 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 10:00:33 UTC
Last modified: 15 May 2012, 10:07:38 UTC

I'm claiming that i found scientific evidence for a race of God like people that were here genetically engineering plants and animals thousands of years ago. Now thats a mighty claim and its going to need substantial scientific proof. What i am saying is that i have been compiling that proof for the last year and a half. Once i have compiled enough evidence, i will go public. If i don't find enough evidence, then i won't be publishing anything and nothing will change.


Unless I'm wrong, that is the first time you've actually given any "details" of the work you are doing? If I interpret that statement correctly, it seems to back up the general theories of the Von Daniken series of books, and others. But it is much more complicated than that, and that is because of the time scales. I have thought for some time that if we WERE previously visited by ET then it was probably in two very different phases.

The first was when humans and plants were created/modified which may have been millions of years ago. The bible description of the creation of Eve reads like anaesthesia, an operation, and DNA cloning. The second was when most of the mainstream religions came into being. Almost all of them have stories of gods that came from the sky, did miracles, then went away promising to come back. That may have been hundreds or tens of thousands of years ago.

I can't explain the reason for the first visit, but the second looks a like an expedition to map the planet. As all the religions have the same theme all over the world, from times when they couldn't have met to exchange experiences.

I think the Bible (Old Testament) was an attempt to write down the history of the human race, and specifically the Jewish one, handed down by myths legends etc. There are some eyewitness accounts but written in the only way they knew how at the time. Unfortunately the timescales involved are not mentioned or made clear, but we do know that the world wasn't created in 7 days in 4004BC!

The age of the earth is 4500 million years. The first multicellular organisms were around in 1000 million BC. If one of gods "days" was 500 million years, it could make some sense. See what I mean about timescales? Timeline

Of course, the fly in the ointment is that any visitation by an ET from another star or even galaxy, would pre-suppose FLT travel, which according to our current knowledge is not possible. Unless you believe if Stargates?

Of course I can't prove a single word of it. I think all the evidence is actually there in some form or another, it just needs unravelling and putting into context, with timelines. However, I'm not clever enough for it.

Darwinism is an extra add-on that muddies the waters. There is natural selection of the fittest to survive in a particular situation, and the classic example ifs the Galapagos finches. Where the finches came from in the very first place, never mind why they settled there I can't answer. People who live in Africa have darker skins, white people would simply get sunburnt.

Good luck Johnney, you'll need it :-)

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Message 1232633 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 22:53:26 UTC
Last modified: 15 May 2012, 23:14:36 UTC

The funny thing is all this 2012 thing is largely impacted by religious cultural influences for example in asia it is usually Buddhist cultural impact dominate versus Christian impact in the west. So at least over 1 billion people have not much idea about armageddon or world end stuff. Maybe in the deep side of Buddhist studies they might have some armageddon stuffs but not like Christian ways like so mainstream armagedon ideals.

So almost each year mostly in america something small or large cult claim world end usually precisely on Jan 1st. And this 2012 religious BS too came out of near by neighbourhood.

As known scientific possibilities world can end any day with sun phenomenon or earths extreme tectonic force or in the next 1 billion year earth atmosphere eventually will evaporate.
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Message 1232650 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 23:27:27 UTC - in response to Message 1232220.
Last modified: 15 May 2012, 23:28:44 UTC

... they, the Elohim, ...


Now that opens up quite an unresolved pantheon... Can you be sure that you are not trying to personify or anthropomorphize what may be ephemeral ideas and abstractions? Or even nothing more than dreams and religious wishing?

Also note that what we have as various religious bibles today have been very heavily censored or at least been very unevenly selective with the material of the day from two or three thousand years ago... There's further political 'selectivity' in the various translations made...

As for the description "Elohim": Does that describe a person, people, group, or belief, or some abstract 'trinity' of all?


Now... If you can weave your research into a beautiful story, you may well have a new religion for yourself so as to become one amongst the Elohim...

Perhaps the hardest part is how you come to a conclusion.

Share a few beers ;-)


Keep searchin',
Martin
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Message 1232662 - Posted: 15 May 2012, 23:47:51 UTC

Come 22/12/12 & later, we'll still get people claiming it will happen & they just got their dates wrong.

...que sera sera......
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