Gay Marriage.

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Message 1230600 - Posted: 11 May 2012, 18:01:37 UTC

"It does not matter who we love, nor how we love. What matters is THAT we love."

I see no reason why two consenting adults should not be able to define their own relationship. That is a very basic freedom.

There is no attack on the "institution of marriage", since a marriage means as much or as little as those inside it believe it does.
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Message 1230604 - Posted: 11 May 2012, 18:06:31 UTC

I totally agree that the issues being discussed this election are a joke.

But I think it's simply because the republicans have nothing good to say about themselves, so instead they get behind "issues" that aren't even issues. I'm not worried. Dems win this one.
#resist
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Message 1230639 - Posted: 11 May 2012, 19:55:44 UTC

For me the concept of "gay marriage" is rather alien as I see marriage as partnership in which one of the objectives is procreation. Now obviously, without some form of "external assistance" procreation is highly improbable within a monogamous, purely homosexual relationship.
I then come up against two more questions, is it legal in the country the couple find themselves in, and is it moral.
The answer to the first question is, in many (most?) "western" countries well defined, the legal code within the country either says "yes it is legal that two consenting adults of the same sex may live together", or it says they can't, and that's the end of that debate.
The moral debate is far less clear to many people, be they hetro-, or homo-, sexual. In my mind this debate has long been settled in favour of the "no its not morally acceptable".
This stance now raises an interesting debate within me - one of freedom of expression. I may disagree with someone, but I will uphold their right to express their views SO LONG as those views are legal, and they do not break the law in the manner of their expression of those views I do struggle with those who would have the law changed in a manner that I find unacceptable on moral grounds, but they have the right to express those views..... A conundrum if ever there was one!
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Message 1230646 - Posted: 11 May 2012, 20:14:05 UTC - in response to Message 1230639.  

For me the concept of "gay marriage" is rather alien as I see marriage as partnership in which one of the objectives is procreation. Now obviously, without some form of "external assistance" procreation is highly improbable within a monogamous, purely homosexual relationship.


What of heterosexual couples where one or both are infertile, should they be barred from marriage as a result of this objective?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1230789 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:25:07 UTC - in response to Message 1230528.  

Kafkatrapping...

I don't hate Gay people. I don't agree with the life style they have 'chosen' for themselves.

They cannot claim that they are being discriminated against. We have rule of law for a reason. In that law at the federal level we have the 14 and 15 amendments. For both it isn't a life choice we are talking about. In both cases you are born this way and have no control over this matter.

Kafkatrapping...


If you want wiggle room, go to the state and ask. However, remember that if 2/3rds of the states tell you no then at the federal level you have no wiggle room.

In California the most liberial state in the Union voted for prop 8. This was the consensus of the people. However, this was not allowed. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals took a vote of the people themselves and said it was unconstitutional. The Hollywood elite backed the effort in cash and didn't have a hard time finding Judges who would Rule from the Bench in place of ruling on established law, first and foremost---precedent.


Indeed, Kafkatrapping...



Bottom line is that a Federal Court has only one duty and that is to rule on established law only in a Constitutional issue. That does mean that they need to READ the Constitution and apply that law to the issue.

As I said, they cannot claim they are being discriminated against. Such a issue is life style. One can claim that they want to marry a anamial, or an object. The precedent has been since the start of this Country--one man, and one woman. One could claim that he/she wants more then one wife or husband, the precedent is one man and one woman.

The matter of the subject at hand here is that life style is curbed by law everyday of the week 24/7 hours of the day. Someone can say they like little kids--alot, to much, that life style is against the law. Someone could say they like whatever the masses find unacceptable, and that LIFE STYLE is curbed by the law.

This is the bottom line of said subject. The gay issues is a matter of life style, not a matter of people being discriminated against. And Constitutional law has only one direction and that is to rule on what is in the Constitution.




38 of the states in the Union have rejected gay marriage. Time for an amendment rejecting it in all states.
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Message 1230794 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:35:56 UTC - in response to Message 1230789.  

and yet if one state allows it then it is law in all the others.

It wasn't so long ago that interracial marriages were illegal in many states.
The last of the laws preventing interracial marriage were struck down in 1967. I think it will take time but the court system will eventually be forced to strike down those 38 states laws on the topic.

Again I don't care one way or another but it seems an inevitable outcome


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Message 1230796 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:39:49 UTC
Last modified: 12 May 2012, 4:45:10 UTC

I am a little over 55yo.
So, you should know where I come from.
Gay or lesbian relationships were verrrry shunned in my youth.
Some still do now.

I have come to relax 'some' of my views as I grow older and realize that the mores of old shall change, me with them or not.

Here comes Dick......

Sigh.

I think the way my generation expressed it was through the Beatles' song.
All you need is Love.

Or some various Queen songs.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1230799 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:44:48 UTC - in response to Message 1230796.  

I am a little over 55yo.
So, you should know where I come from.
Gay or lesbian relationships were verrrry shunned in my youth.
Some still do now.

I have come to relax 'some' of my views as I grow older and realize that the mores of old shall change, me with them or not.

Here comes Dick......

Same here. Though it still creeps me out when a guy flirts with me.


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Message 1230800 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:45:03 UTC

A few years ago it was only permitted in a couple of states.

So 12 down, 38 to go!!

If your church/temple/mosque/circle does not agree with them then they are certainly not required to perform them.

This is about basic rights and human dignity. Honestly I would advise any of them NOT to get married.. but that is only because I am old and cynical.

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Message 1230802 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:47:59 UTC - in response to Message 1230800.  

A few years ago it was only permitted in a couple of states.

So 12 down, 38 to go!!

If your church/temple/mosque/circle does not agree with them then they are certainly not required to perform them.

This is about basic rights and human dignity. Honestly I would advise any of them NOT to get married.. but that is only because I am old and cynical.

I think everyone should get the chance to be married and find out what a soul crushing experience it can be. I hardly like being around me. why would I want someone else to suffer through that.


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Message 1230803 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:50:59 UTC - in response to Message 1230799.  

I am a little over 55yo.
So, you should know where I come from.
Gay or lesbian relationships were verrrry shunned in my youth.
Some still do now.

I have come to relax 'some' of my views as I grow older and realize that the mores of old shall change, me with them or not.

Here comes Dick......

Same here. Though it still creeps me out when a guy flirts with me.

LOL..
A friend and I went to a Packer game 25 years ago or more.
Got trashed.
Got back to town and he thought we should have another drink or two before going home.

Went to a bar on the main drag (no pun intended) once we got back to our home town.
Sat down and ordered up shots and beers. Little did we know.
A couple of fancy guys started buying us drinks, we thought is was just the usual 'I buy you one, you buy me one' bar routine.

Until one of them came over and asked us if we should like to have a bit of 'knob'.....
And he was not talking about Knob Creek bourbon.

We fled out the door screaming.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1230805 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:53:43 UTC
Last modified: 12 May 2012, 4:54:08 UTC

The real knot in the tendon is when we, the majority of taxpayers, are asked to pay for these unions which are not in line with our beliefs.

There, I think, becomes the crux of the matter.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1230808 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:56:16 UTC

Barry's second 4 years are shot due to this issue.

And so is the issue.



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Message 1230809 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 4:57:43 UTC - in response to Message 1230808.  

Barry's second 4 years are shot due to this issue.

And so is the issue.




I dunno who it will come back to shoot in the foot.
Could be the opportunist Obama.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1230824 - Posted: 12 May 2012, 5:30:17 UTC
Last modified: 12 May 2012, 5:32:38 UTC

Temporary Locked: 24 hour cooldown.

Discussions have gotten too heated and are resorting to personal attacks.
Disagreeing politically is fine, Personal/religious insults are not.

Since this is not being followed..

TIME OUT!!
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Message 1231488 - Posted: 13 May 2012, 10:34:23 UTC - in response to Message 1230824.  

Unlocked. Please keep it civil.
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Message 1231502 - Posted: 13 May 2012, 11:22:46 UTC - in response to Message 1230808.  

Ah so it is a Barry vs Willard thing -- but which Willard -- Willard 2012 in his TeaPublican guise, or Willard 2006 in his Massachusetts Republican mask -- a major difference between those two different political animals.

And here I thought that if someone was designed gay, it was a function of intelligent design -- silly me.

Barry's second 4 years are shot due to this issue.

And so is the issue.




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Message 1231541 - Posted: 13 May 2012, 13:45:37 UTC - in response to Message 1231488.  

Unlocked. Please keep it civil.

some want civil some want marriage. Who knew it was so important.


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Message 1231553 - Posted: 13 May 2012, 14:02:44 UTC

Prove someone is designed gay.

This science is not accepted by all. No such thing as gay gene.

I posted a while back the people are born with a conscience. I was told not all people who work with genes accept that fact.
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Message 1231557 - Posted: 13 May 2012, 14:12:54 UTC - in response to Message 1231553.  

Prove someone is designed gay.


Who asserted they were?

This science is not accepted by all. No such thing as gay gene.


Your assertion to prove.

I posted a while back the people are born with a conscience. I was told not all people who work with genes accept that fact.


And you believed them? Why? What evidence was provided in support of the claim?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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