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CMPO Send message Joined: 26 Apr 12 Posts: 57 Credit: 344,990 RAC: 0 |
Hello xclusive585, Thank you for the welcome also. I have no problems with the government taxing and spending, well I accept is as a reality lets say ;-). For public works, roads, military spending, space programs etc. I think I have already stated that there are many valid reasons for governments, and that means taxation. What I disagree with is the argument for social justice that was being proposed, often by progressives and liberals. Social Justice for the poor through government spending is something I reject. And the notion that if one is really a “good Christianâ€, they should be supporting social spending via the government. This is actually a veiled argument that religions impulse and government should be married, when I am making the opposite argument. Religious impulse to charity should be divorced from government functions. Taxation is compulsive and forced by law, charity should come from the individual agent or group of agents by free association as protected by our constitution. When you say that the government is “tasked†with this, it conveys a world view where one might not see the value in not for profit charities, such as many religious and non-religious, charities we are free to donate our funds to towards any disparity we see in our society, enviroment or world. Those who do not actively participate in this system of charities may view the government as the only way to provide this relief to those in need. When this happens, whether people see it or not, the government starts to become a kind of ersatz religious institution in their lives and the only institution to solve social problems. I see this outlook as a big problem. To be clear I am not against the government helping the less fortunate in principal, I am just against it being the primary form of conveyance, as it results in the abuse of power by the government and has the effect of unburdening the individual responsibility to be involved directly to solve these types of issues. History has shown that this does not work, and we can see what the entitlement culture is doing to Europe and here in the States. I expect we are probably going to have to mutually disagree on this, respectfully of course. |
CMPO Send message Joined: 26 Apr 12 Posts: 57 Credit: 344,990 RAC: 0 |
That’s quite a wager. For your sake I hope Obama wins then. If I lose my bet I only lose a few bucks ;-) I am curious just what you believe the AZ law does. I have obviously not read the whole thing but by the extract and the Supreme Court arguments I have heard I understand it only drives behaviors for state authorities to uphold existing Federal law as mandated under Title 8 in the lawful arrest and detention functions of everyday policing. So if the laws are unjust, it is not AZ law that is to blame, it is the laws of the land. If the Feds are not going to enforce them, or allow the states to, what is the point of them? The real question is are the Federal laws valid, and if so why are they not being enforced? If they are not worthy of being enforced, why is the Federal government not overturning or changing them? |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
Manned space exploration can wait. unmanned missions can do more than sending a fragile species into space with all the things it needs to survive. All that stuff takes up weight and space on any spacecraft sent to explore. We are better served by sending unmanned craft to other worlds and out of the solar system to explore where humans would easily expire after a short time. If and when we find something to leave for then yes start up a manned space program again. Until then science is better served with our robotic friends doing the exploring In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30591 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Well maybe our next president will print another $16 billion (not much compared to $5 trillion) and bail California out. How much money did POTUS just take from fat cat Hollywood types that they should have paid in taxes to California? |
Ex: "Socialist" Send message Joined: 12 Mar 12 Posts: 3433 Credit: 2,616,158 RAC: 2 |
Well maybe our next president will print another $16 billion (not much compared to $5 trillion) and bail California out. Can I ask an honest question Guy? How about just making BIG hikes on the taxes on the 500(or even 100)milion/year+ group? (and even then, only on income taxes- so as to encourage spending in/from business or else; taxes...) That doesn't hurt anyone that most of us would know. What do you think/feel? #resist |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30591 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
California has the exact same problem GM had. Can we declare bankruptcy and get some TARP money to fix it? How about in POTUS? We even vote democrat. |
Ex: "Socialist" Send message Joined: 12 Mar 12 Posts: 3433 Credit: 2,616,158 RAC: 2 |
And therein lies the problem with *most* of our politicians, including the Dems but especially the right. They're all too tied into these lobbies and monies to make a change like that... #resist |
Dena Wiltsie Send message Joined: 19 Apr 01 Posts: 1628 Credit: 24,230,968 RAC: 26 |
I always wondered about the 91% tax rate working, after all it's a violation of the Laffer curve. It turns out the reason 91% worked in the 1950's was because this was just after WW II and we had no competition. Japan and most of Europe was destroyed and about the only country left to compete with us was England. Any tax rate short of 100% would work. That is not the case today. As for a bailout for California, I don't think it's in the cards. Obama will get California's vote with no bailout so spend the money on buying votes where it will make a difference. |
Terror Australis Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1817 Credit: 262,693,308 RAC: 44 |
I'm speechless. How can we get such a great leader like Chavez here in the U.S.? If your talking about the quality of leadership rather than their politics. Vote Romney :-) T.A. |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
Exactly, the US went about rebuilding Europe. The US gov't had the money and US contractors had the know how. American businesses made a pile of money off US gov't contracts that a 91% tax rate wasn't even a burden considering how fast and furiously these companies went about rebuilding half the planet. Since we don't have a couple continents to rebuild 91% is a bit farfetched for our current system. In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30591 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Since we don't have a couple continents to rebuild 91% is a bit farfetched for our current system. But we do have a moon to colonize, if we have the guts to take on a real project we can't predict the outcome of in advance. |
Dena Wiltsie Send message Joined: 19 Apr 01 Posts: 1628 Credit: 24,230,968 RAC: 26 |
Since we don't have a couple continents to rebuild 91% is a bit farfetched for our current system. You and I both know if the government got their hands on that type of money, it wouldn't be spent on the moon or mars program. |
CMPO Send message Joined: 26 Apr 12 Posts: 57 Credit: 344,990 RAC: 0 |
Fair enough. But colonization is not the same as exploration. Some might claim this is a necessary next step in human evolution. There is one major reason to develop a moon base colony with the ability to sustain a human population, and that is survival of the species. One of the most likely scenarios for a mass extinction event on this planet is an asteroid impact. Which may be detected far too late to do much about it. I believe steps should be made as soon as possible to create such a colony, that could also serve as an "ark" for other species, in the form of cryogenically stored DNA, species we need for survival and ecosystem formation that can use to reclaim the earth should it undergo such a catastrophe. The other benefits would be of course development of exploration and colonization techniques that will serve us well when the goals you believe are worthy to tackle become more feasible. Based on previous robotic missions there is good evidence that there is water, and that the composition of minerals is close to that of earth. Not to mention helium 3 deposits, if we ever figure out how to use it. I doubt anyone would disagree that the technologies developed and discovered would drive an economic engine of the next era. The sooner we start trying, the sooner we can make mistakes, learn from them and work it through to a successful next step in human development. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30591 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Since we don't have a couple continents to rebuild 91% is a bit farfetched for our current system. Dena, you and I both know it is all about how you phrase it. If they think it could be used as a weapon, well, then it will get built. And CMPO's point about using it as a DNA store, say a way around MAD, well I bet every SDI'er would sign on in a nuclear flash. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Gary, California has Norquistican problem as much as anything and I don't see any fix for that the political structure there favors paralysis. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
Indeed, Romney is a better quality leader than Chavez - fortunately there is an additional choice. Although Romney 2006 might not be that bad, however he suffered a political cerebral hemmorage on his way to the Teapublican nomination in 2012. I'm speechless. How can we get such a great leader like Chavez here in the U.S.? |
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