The subject of UFOs

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Message 1262782 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 1:46:43 UTC - in response to Message 1262775.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 2:39:23 UTC

You need to watch a UFOologist Dr. Woods called the Encylopedia of Flying daucers. This guy come up with an original UFO Recovery and Disposal even how to create a cover for the crash. This manual is original in all respects and contridicts everything the airforce knows about flying saucers includeing recovery of both live and dead alien species. They have had communication with aliens since 1953. Project Grudge was started to study green fireballs over Los Alamos,Whitesands, and other secure areas from 10-30 reports or more a month. Eisenhower brought up the Military machine out of control and he wanted ufoshot down onsight. From 1953 on till today the air force has only done dis-information campaign that was Blue Books existance at any cost to hide , obstuct, deny all information cocerning UFOs. Place all information above top secret so reserchers cant recover any information. Ronald Regan did his ET speech and all of a sudden he was brought into the loop and he signed a executive order placeing all photos, videos, documentation above top secret. So now infromation can be destroyed or classed as security requies to make it inaccessible. Now the airforce has denied UFOs for 60 years and all alone they have discovered 37 species and over a hundred different models of UFOs some are interdiminsial. Betty and Barny Hill were picked by beings from the Beta Rticli sytem. Under Hyponosis Betty drew a star chart of the Glise system 29 lightyears away. So all the people that think that they are fake must be reminded of 30000 sightingsa month on average occurs. Funny how the airforce denys that UFOs exist and yet a 1999 manual tells how to recover and disposal od all UFO crash sites and teams worldwide are on standby worldwide to recover UFOs at all costs.

www.tube.com the encycopedia of flying saucers


Is there any corroborating evidence of anything in that "documentary" other than some Dr.'s claims?

As for drawing star charts under hypnosis, hypnosis only reveals what the mind believes to be true. So if you've convinced yourself that something happened, then you believe it happened, regardless if the events did not occur. [Edit] Here's a good overview on a de-mystified review of the Hill's claims. Point blank: their claims were false. The psychiatrist that examined the Hills concluded that the entire story was fabricated by Betty, and only through hypnosis was she able to convince her husband that he had experienced something too, even though he claimed he did not experience anything initially or even months later. It wasn't until "therapy" that he started echoing his wife's story.

And as far as all the reported sightings of UFOs, what about all the reported sightings of ghosts? Or vampires? Or the loch ness monster? Do the reportings make the claims more valid? How about some actual evidence and not just claims?
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Message 1262784 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 1:57:52 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 2:01:50 UTC

Ozzfan you are believing that quantum state exists that only few physicists in america observed that in the lab under electron microscope but you fiercefully debunk tens of military personnel plus few publicly trusted politicians' observation claim as anti-scientific something. Which makes you real crazy individual.
Mandtugai!
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Message 1262785 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 2:02:43 UTC - in response to Message 1262784.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 2:30:00 UTC

Ozzfan you are believing that quantum state exists that only few physicists in america observed that in the lab under electron microscope but you fiercefully debunk few military personnel plus few publicly trusted politicians' observation claim as anti-scientific something. Which makes you real crazy individual.


Yes, because other scientists will peer-review the quantum findings of physicists and would debunk their work if it were false.

The same is applied to the UFO conspiracy theory. Under peer-review, it is nothing more than bogus claims. Anyone can claim they believe UFOs have been visiting planet Earth, but it takes facts to confirm the belief. Otherwise, the belief is nothing more a belief, and not a fact.

If trusting peer-review is crazy then I'm a looney. However, I think most people would say believing that a large number of claims + lack of evidence is a symptom of delusion.
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Message 1262790 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 2:39:06 UTC - in response to Message 1262782.  

The doctor is a document specialist he has done all documentation verification for the military. He has anaylised handwriting from a hand written noter to a general quote" I belive we have both manmade and extraterrirestrial Ufos" why would the director of skunkworks write that if he didnt know something. He has one of two original copies of the UFO recovery and disposal manual both from 1999 and two different sourses.
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Message 1262795 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 2:46:48 UTC - in response to Message 1262790.  

The doctor is a document specialist he has done all documentation verification for the military. He has anaylised handwriting from a hand written noter to a general quote" I belive we have both manmade and extraterrirestrial Ufos" why would the director of skunkworks write that if he didnt know something. He has one of two original copies of the UFO recovery and disposal manual both from 1999 and two different sourses.


Sure, he believes he knows something, but where is his corroborating evidence? Do other documentation specialists agree with his findings?

All I'm seeing here is that because someone is intelligent and connected with the US Government/military, that their claims somehow hold more weight. Again, intelligent people making claims does not mean they are immune from delusion.

Stop looking at who is making the claim and what their credentials are and start looking at the evidence.
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Message 1262796 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 2:47:40 UTC - in response to Message 1262360.  

The energy requirements of most every powerplant that scientists and engineers are experimenting with are monsterous and would require storage tanks on a planetary scale. Maybe Dark Matter and Dark energy are the answer if we ever discover their true nature.


You are right, advances with new fuel sources would undoubtedly need to be developed. But we also can't forget how big the first computers used to be way way back in the good 'ol days :D

Back in the early days of computers they knew that ways to make them smaller and faster was only a matter of time and that doing so wouldn't break any of the laws of physics. On the other hand creating a repository (read battery) for energy storage can only be miniaturized so far before coming up against the wall of physical impossibility. I've seen estimates that the energy needed to create a wormhole, should they prove to be possible, would entail harnessing the complete output of a sun sized star. The same is true for star drives that encapsulate a spacecraft and then move space around it. The ability to manipulate energy at that level is thousands of years off, if possible at all.


Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1262799 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 2:51:58 UTC - in response to Message 1262772.  

you should read alot more before you critize me. Im not crazy and have done research on UFOs as a hobby most of my life. Until recently the whole thing smeels like a hoax but reperible people have put their lives on the line saying this is true in front of congress nothing more since 1986 and congress didnt do anything because they themselves could not recover lost altered or destroyed documentation or photgraphs unless a need to know existed. Prove that Dr Woods is a liar hes been in f\ront of congress 3 times to get answers. Whay he has discovered is a complete contridiciton to everything the airforce has said to congress and presidents and the public. People should go to prison over this but so much is destroyed and a TRILLION dollar expense doesnt have an answer. Prove to me thats being crazy. Hell they had a program to put nuclear engines in bombers and make it work then scrap 10 years of research at the tune 110 million dollars with no repercussions. Im crazy as hell if I dont look at some this objectively.
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Message 1262802 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 3:00:19 UTC - in response to Message 1262070.  

You know it was Hyneck that come up with the "swamp Gas "saying to explain UFOs before years of stuff he couldnt explain he became a UFO advocate after spending years on blue book denying their existance. There are quite a few astronomers that have seen anomolies on telescopes that defied explanation.
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Message 1262803 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 3:02:45 UTC - in response to Message 1262799.  

you should read alot more before you critize me. Im not crazy and have done research on UFOs as a hobby most of my life. Until recently the whole thing smeels like a hoax but reperible people have put their lives on the line saying this is true in front of congress nothing more since 1986 and congress didnt do anything because they themselves could not recover lost altered or destroyed documentation or photgraphs unless a need to know existed. Prove that Dr Woods is a liar hes been in f\ront of congress 3 times to get answers. Whay he has discovered is a complete contridiciton to everything the airforce has said to congress and presidents and the public. People should go to prison over this but so much is destroyed and a TRILLION dollar expense doesnt have an answer. Prove to me thats being crazy. Hell they had a program to put nuclear engines in bombers and make it work then scrap 10 years of research at the tune 110 million dollars with no repercussions. Im crazy as hell if I dont look at some this objectively.


You are going about all this backwards. It doesn't matter how reputable someone is. They have to prove their claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. He believes he's found contradictions because he has fallen into the same trap so many other intelligent people fall into: he gets caught up in the claims instead of letting the data lead him to the truth.

If you really were looking at this objectively, you wouldn't be focused on who is making the claim and what their reputation is. You'd be looking specifically at their claims and asking what evidence do they have that makes any of it true.
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Message 1262804 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 3:04:46 UTC - in response to Message 1262802.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 3:25:26 UTC

You know it was Hyneck that come up with the "swamp Gas "saying to explain UFOs before years of stuff he couldnt explain he became a UFO advocate after spending years on blue book denying their existance. There are quite a few astronomers that have seen anomolies on telescopes that defied explanation.


For the billionth time, it doesn't matter who is making the claim or who they work for. Look at the evidence, or more specifically the lack thereof. There's still quite a few things in this Universe that we don't understand or can't fully explain, but an astronomer finding some anomaly on a telescope isn't proof positive of alien visitations.
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Message 1262806 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 3:07:56 UTC - in response to Message 1262772.  

Lets look at presidents that were denyed access Eisenhower and Jimmy Carter. The other presidents that knew lied to congress about what they knew or how they felt about the subject. Nixon knew about them. Reagan was brought in the loop and did an executive order to hide any ufo information would denied to the public unless a need to know arises. Johnson was informed about a series of UFO incidents in Veitnam. More presidents know about this than you know and alot of detail.
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Message 1262809 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 3:12:06 UTC - in response to Message 1262806.  

You know that half the ufos reported could be ours. They dont get shot down world wide.
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Message 1262810 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 3:13:40 UTC - in response to Message 1262806.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 3:41:57 UTC

Lets look at presidents that were denyed access Eisenhower and Jimmy Carter. The other presidents that knew lied to congress about what they knew or how they felt about the subject. Nixon knew about them. Reagan was brought in the loop and did an executive order to hide any ufo information would denied to the public unless a need to know arises. Johnson was informed about a series of UFO incidents in Veitnam. More presidents know about this than you know and alot of detail.


Denied access to what? Topic secret government research into the UFO phenomenon? I have no doubt the government conducts such research, but the fact that they classify their research as top secret doesn't mean that they are hiding alien visitations. I also have no doubt that these research teams are smart enough and objective enough to realize the truth of a situation and attempt to explain it to people, but the average laymen such as the Hills, without any knowledge of science at all, think the explanation bogus, even though most of the Hill's story has been refuted and shown to be an elaborate fabrication. And those who are smart enough to know better, upon further investigation are found to be delusion, mentally ill, or simply not well versed in areas outside their expertise so they make up the rest knowing that their "reputation" will make them seem like they know something that others are hiding (outright liars).

I don't understand how you can say that you're looking at anything objectively then turn around and make statements as outlandish as this. You have no way of knowing anything classified - you only have claims from other people who doubtfully have the right level of access. Again I ask: where is the evidence of these claims? How do these people supposedly know what the President is aware of or not? What makes the claims true?
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Message 1262811 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 3:15:29 UTC - in response to Message 1262809.  

You know that half the ufos reported could be ours. They dont get shot down world wide.


Half? Until I see evidence otherwise, I would say that all the UFOs are of terrestrial origin or straight out delusion.
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Message 1262942 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 14:43:20 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 14:49:27 UTC

If 99.9% of UFO sightings can be satisfactorily explained away, how many signals may have then been received (meaning processed, uploaded and so on) by means of the Seti@home client and finally ended up being in the category "unexplained"?

I guess this may now be some percentage point when it comes to the total number of recorded signals. We know for sure that something it must be, but if so, what is it and what does it mean?

We assume to be part of nature ourselves. Whether or not E.T. takes the form of a big liquid balloon or slippery gas, or perhaps some black Alien monster of sorts, we seem to be unable to find ourselves. If I had the possiblity of handshaking an E.T. which really had the same appearance as a human being, nothing could be better than such a thing.

If you make an observation of something which could appear to be having an extraterrestrial origin, like a craft (or just an UFO, since it still is being regarded as an unexplained phenomenon), you perhaps would try classifying such object into one or more several categories or types if more than one observation of such an object was available.

To some people, so-called shape-shifting is a possible explanation. Things change their shapes (more or less continually) and in some instances they may not be what they supposedly look like.

Also, we tend to favor intelligence in the same way as we relate certain things towards each other. It is hard to us to think that eiher a craft (or something which looks like a craft to us), or a liquid balloon may be having an intelligence comparable or maybe even better than ourselves (surpassing us).
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Message 1263052 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 19:22:36 UTC - in response to Message 1262810.  
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 19:27:40 UTC

Lets look at the facts.
In 1951 Eisenhower wanted UFOs shot down and access to what the airforce had. Please watch Eisenhower Military Industrial complex was above any of his authority to question.
In 2009 after 60 years of dening that the Airforce knows nothing about UFOs. A Dr Woods came up with 2 copies of Airforce Manual on Racovery and Disposal of UFOs. The ink stamps and watermarks are all originals and then another copy showed up from a different source. Dr Woods doesnt document anaylis for the government.{ www.youtube/ encyclopedia of flying saucers
A trillion or more dollars in black budget funds have been used for what. Several presidents and many airforce top officials are guity of covering up and squaundering billions without a chain of command and presidents and the public lied to. No verifaction of what funds go where and what chain of authorization in place. The atomic bomber engines and research of atomic rocket engines that worked 110 million a year for 10 years theb abandoned and buried in situ.
Since 1953 something happened and UFOs became a state secret why? Contact?, communication?, and alliance to assist them, who knows but our countrys woes are directly related to these black projects that, only a select few know about but a chain of command from the funds to airforce is secret. A whole chain of people know about where funds are acquired and distributed without record makes illegal under present laws. They cannot have this no accounting of these funds even without congress or the president knwing about it or approving such massive funds without any redtaint or dicumentation. And this is getting bigger with the US 194 trillion in the red.
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Message 1263064 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 20:01:12 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 20:19:13 UTC

I tried looking up both President Dwight D. Eisenhower as well as President John F. Kennedy by means of Google Toolbar and the information which can be found in the Wikipedia (or Wiki if that is more correct).

In short, what a striking contrast in such a short time. You may know from some YouTube Videos that Eisenhower as a five star general also was in charge of the military industry and its secrets.

Who knows for certain that everything being reported really does or does not belong to us?

Everyone familiar with history knows about the U2 spy plane. One such plane was shot down over the former Soviet Union and its pilot was captured but later released as part of a prisoner exchange program.

Later on, a plane with the name of X-37B came into existence. Also a very secretive plane known as the "Aurora" having been observed by several people. Its propulsion engine is most likely a ram-jet or pulse-jet engine of sorts.

Recently, I came across even one more such spy plane. Its exact name is currently lost to me, I am trying to re-locate it, but it goes by the name of TR5 and something.

Is this TR5 (does it have a designation like "Manta", perhaps) a craft which is known to have been produced here on earth (most likely a "Skunk Works" production)?

And let us not forget the F117A Stealth Fighter. It performed flawlessly in the first Gulf War. Its big brother is the B2 which is a Stealth Bomber. Similarly, a sibling of sorts is the more ordinary looking B1-B plane, which has been plagued by technological problems since its inception. If I am not wrong, this project became scrapped because of its spiralling costs.

If we really are so good at it, we could possibly be able to compare ourselves with the technology which may be used by a Type 1 civilization. Again, we do not have any conclusive proof about the existence of other civilizations in space yet, only certain indications of this fact.

But since there is no big wars going on right now, these planes are only testing and development planes for the moment. Any viual sightings of some of these planes, however and you may think that we have been visited from outer space.
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Message 1263066 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 20:12:51 UTC - in response to Message 1262796.  

On the other hand creating a repository (read battery) for energy storage can only be miniaturized so far before coming up against the wall of physical impossibility. I've seen estimates that the energy needed to create a wormhole, should they prove to be possible, would entail harnessing the complete output of a sun sized star. The same is true for star drives that encapsulate a spacecraft and then move space around it. The ability to manipulate energy at that level is thousands of years off, if possible at all.


Encapsulate a spacecraft? Creating wormholes? It's all about warping space, friend, and for that we need one of those nifty warp cores :D

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Message 1263095 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 21:27:43 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 21:41:49 UTC

Anyway, found a little more about this while surfing.

Apparently the TR3-A Black Manta is "reputedly a United States Spy Plane".

This according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-3_Black_Manta .

But at the same time, a craft generally having only the specification or name "Black triangle (UFO)", by means of its name could be considered as being a craft who may well be operated by someone else. It is not officially a US Government project (I am still checking) and as far as I know, the Aurora project may be regarded as still being the most "secretive" project currently in progress.

More about the Black triangle can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_triangle_(UFO)

Also, have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=XZpqpBVOa1U&NR=1

Looking at it, my guess is that this craft belongs to the US government (some plane characteristics visible).

So are we being fooled once more? How advanced and sophisticated does it become in the end? Is it possibly to classify even more advanced and sophisticated objects or crafts? I find a couple of them on YouTube, also I was lucky myself on this with my own video camera and still think it neither were F16's nor birds or even insects that I caught when using it.
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Message 1263159 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 23:48:25 UTC - in response to Message 1263052.  

Lets look at the facts.


I wish we would.

In 1951 Eisenhower wanted UFOs shot down and access to what the airforce had. Please watch Eisenhower Military Industrial complex was above any of his authority to question.


Cite authoritative reference please?

An order to shoot down UFOs doesn't mean alien UFOs. It simply means to shoot down anything unidentified. Where is the evidence that this means alien UFOs as you're suggesting?

In 2009 after 60 years of dening that the Airforce knows nothing about UFOs. A Dr Woods came up with 2 copies of Airforce Manual on Racovery and Disposal of UFOs. The ink stamps and watermarks are all originals and then another copy showed up from a different source. Dr Woods doesnt document anaylis for the government.


Where did Dr. Woods and this "other source" get these manuals? How do we know they're real? What evidence do we have that supports his claims? What reason do we have to believe these documents are real?

A trillion or more dollars in black budget funds have been used for what.


For plenty of Black Ops. Any actual evidence to support the idea that "a trillion or more dollars" is spent covering up alien existence?

Several presidents and many airforce top officials are guity of covering up and squaundering billions without a chain of command and presidents and the public lied to. No verifaction of what funds go where and what chain of authorization in place. The atomic bomber engines and research of atomic rocket engines that worked 110 million a year for 10 years theb abandoned and buried in situ.


Ok, firstly, I won't even bother to argue on how you supposedly know where billions of dollars are going without the public knowing - yet somehow every alien conspiracy theorist knows exactly where. And so does every believer in the "NWO" theory. And so does every believer in every government conspiracy knows exactly where the money is going! They "just need to get the word out to the unknowning public". Come on! I have no doubt that money was squandered, but until you can provide evidence for what you're suggesting, you're just making unsupported claims, which makes you look foolish, and I don't really think you're a fool.

Since 1953 something happened and UFOs became a state secret why? Contact?, communication?, and alliance to assist them, who knows but our countrys woes are directly related to these black projects that, only a select few know about but a chain of command from the funds to airforce is secret. A whole chain of people know about where funds are acquired and distributed without record makes illegal under present laws. They cannot have this no accounting of these funds even without congress or the president knwing about it or approving such massive funds without any redtaint or dicumentation. And this is getting bigger with the US 194 trillion in the red.


UFOs became a state secret in case the claims were actually real, and like any ongoing investigation, it will likely always remain a state secret. <sigh> Again, just because the government classifies something as "secret", doesn't mean they're hiding "the truth".


You haven't brought a single fact to the table. You've brought the same unverified claims every alien conspiracy theorists bring up constantly. Again, watch those Penn and Teller videos that deal with this self-defeating logic and why it's nothing more than foolishness.

Where is the evidence?
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