The subject of UFOs


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OzzFan
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Message 1261828 - Posted: 18 Jul 2012, 13:56:48 UTC - in response to Message 1261824.
Last modified: 18 Jul 2012, 14:15:44 UTC

Can you please point out where I've ridiculed or unjustly criticized anyone?
.

LOL....thats a good one Ozzfan. You really do make me laugh. Your the one person here that ridicules everyone that dares to suggest anything outside the box.

You have a future in comedy Ozzfan! And another thing, what about putting you user name back in. Are you hiding from something?

John.


So pointing out facts, or the other person's lack of evidence is now considered "ridicule"? Thinking outside the box is fine so long as you can provide observations to backup your claims. If your observations and evidence is not strong enough, then your idea has no merit. That's kinda the way things work, Johnney.

What does it matter if I have the name "OzzFan" in my handle or not? I had $o |>0/|/3 as my handle for a while and people still called me OzzFan. So then I ask, "What's in a name?" You clearly know who I am, and I haven't denied it so I'm obviously not hiding from anything. I simply decided to change my handle as I've done in the past at least once before.

You also seem to be harboring some animosity toward me, Johnney. Would that have anything to do with the way you have been responding to me lately?

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Message 1261942 - Posted: 18 Jul 2012, 19:01:19 UTC - in response to Message 1261828.
Last modified: 18 Jul 2012, 19:05:07 UTC


So pointing out facts, or the other person's lack of evidence is now considered "ridicule"?

Yes! Your pretty sharp!

What does it matter if I have the name "OzzFan" in my handle or not? I had $o |>0/|/3 as my handle for a while and people still called me OzzFan. So then I ask, "What's in a name?" You clearly know who I am, and I haven't denied it so I'm obviously not hiding from anything. I simply decided to change my handle as I've done in the past at least once before.

You also seem to be harboring some animosity toward me, Johnney. Would that have anything to do with the way you have been responding to me lately?

Putting in an appropriate user name and avatar is simply a courtesy to other people, especially new people that come here to ask a question. It puts a name and a face on people. The internet is impersonal enough without making it any worse. Its just polite Ozzfan. Put back in the Ozzy Osbourn picture. Do it for me, as a friend.


John.
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OzzFan
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Message 1261951 - Posted: 18 Jul 2012, 19:31:21 UTC - in response to Message 1261942.
Last modified: 18 Jul 2012, 19:34:56 UTC


So pointing out facts, or the other person's lack of evidence is now considered "ridicule"?

Yes! Your pretty sharp!


Ummm... no. That's not ridicule. Ridicule is defined by the dictionary as mockery, derision, taunting, jeering, and scoffing. While I have done those things on occasion when I feel the person is simply being ridiculous, I don't ridicule people who actually bring facts to the table.

Pointing out facts and the other person's lack of evidence is what happens in any intellectual debate. You're just going to have to get used to it.

What does it matter if I have the name "OzzFan" in my handle or not? I had $o |>0/|/3 as my handle for a while and people still called me OzzFan. So then I ask, "What's in a name?" You clearly know who I am, and I haven't denied it so I'm obviously not hiding from anything. I simply decided to change my handle as I've done in the past at least once before.

You also seem to be harboring some animosity toward me, Johnney. Would that have anything to do with the way you have been responding to me lately?

Putting in an appropriate user name and avatar is simply a courtesy to other people, especially new people that come here to ask a question. It puts a name and a face on people. The internet is impersonal enough without making it any worse. Its just polite Ozzfan. Put back in the Ozzy Osbourn picture. Do it for me, as a friend.

John.


So every person that doesn't have an avatar is being "impolite"? I hardly think so. It is my account and I can do with it as I wish so long as it doesn't break the posting rules.

I certainly don't use an image of a glass of Guinness with "Paddy's [sic] in Space" as "putting a name and a face" on you. Nor do I think Misfit a female because of his Avatar. Or Dullnando to be a devil. Again, I ask, "What's in a name?"

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Message 1262039 - Posted: 18 Jul 2012, 23:51:46 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 0:13:53 UTC

As of now 2 american presidents plus at least 2 more american senators are on UFO fact side:

http://www.brownsguides.com/blog/weird-georgia-senator-richard-russells-ufo/
http://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/senator-russell-ufo.htm

The second senator I do not remember his name but he has openly spoke about seeing one during in presidential candidate debate last year the one with dark hair.

Wow suddenly the list extends with heavy weight witnesses so quickly, SO comfortable!!

ps. found him it is Dennis Kusinich: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306616,00.html
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Message 1262042 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 0:04:59 UTC - in response to Message 1262039.
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 0:17:39 UTC

Again, since when does it matter who believes a false story? The more famous they are, or the closer they are to the US Government, the more valid the theory must be? Just because they were a part of our Government doesn't make them immune from falling for wacky theories without proof.

Also, in order to be called the "UFO fact side", you have to actually provide facts. Otherwise, simply adding "fact" to the end of your conspiracy theory means you don't actually understand the meaning of the word.

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Message 1262057 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 0:38:50 UTC

Yes all you can do is attack regular guys and you do not have piece of guts to debunk your own too sensetive politicians which is classic american hypocracy.
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Message 1262059 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 0:46:18 UTC

Another cool fact:

"In 1952, in an informal survey of 44 of his fellow astronomers, J. Allen Hynek of Project Blue Book learned that five had seen UFOs. "A higher percentage than among the public at large," Professor Hynek noted in an internal Air Force memorandum. Fear of ridicule kept most scientists silent about their sightings, however. In a 1976 survey of members of the American Astronomical Society, 62 admitted to having had UFO experiences; only one of the scientists made a public report of his sighting."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/j-allen-hynek.htm

Because church-academia witch hunting is too fierce every where scientists keep silent about witnessing unexplainable areal phenomenons or ufo.


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Message 1262066 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 1:02:09 UTC - in response to Message 1262057.

Yes all you can do is attack regular guys and you do not have piece of guts to debunk your own too sensetive politicians which is classic american hypocracy.


This is no way addresses what I've been asking. Can you please explain to me how former government officials believing in the UFO Conspiracy means that the idea holds an ounce of truth without any evidence?

OzzFan
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Message 1262070 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 1:04:58 UTC - in response to Message 1262059.
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 1:33:38 UTC

Another cool fact:

"In 1952, in an informal survey of 44 of his fellow astronomers, J. Allen Hynek of Project Blue Book learned that five had seen UFOs. "A higher percentage than among the public at large," Professor Hynek noted in an internal Air Force memorandum. Fear of ridicule kept most scientists silent about their sightings, however. In a 1976 survey of members of the American Astronomical Society, 62 admitted to having had UFO experiences; only one of the scientists made a public report of his sighting."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/j-allen-hynek.htm

Because church-academia witch hunting is too fierce every where scientists keep silent about witnessing unexplainable areal phenomenons or ufo.


Again, even intelligent people such as scientists are not immune from experiencing things which they are not able to explain. Being a scientist doesn't mean you know everything about everything. You can be a scientist for a pharmaceutical company and know very little about physics or alien UFOs.

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Message 1262090 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 3:48:54 UTC

I love this thread! :) I've had to ponder views that I didn't even consider previously, and it's been a wild ride! But it's obviously gotten a little heated at times. Everyone's opinions are worth reading, just don't be too thick skinned to ponder another point of view, and don't take offense to another's rebuke. It's all theoretical, as there is no *solid* evidence to point fact or fiction (regardless of Governmental coverups or not, hehe)

Enjoy the ride :D
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Message 1262169 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 10:25:52 UTC - in response to Message 1262090.
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 10:26:41 UTC

I am a non-believer but I will recount an event that I have previously posted on this subject over the past 5 years or so.

Back in the 1950's when I was in high school we lived on a street in Northern Virginia which had two Air Force colonels living there as well. One weekend they were required to go in to their duty stations at the Pentagon and at Anacostia Air Base because it was thought that a UFO might land in Washington DC. I find this to be incredible now, I recently asked my Father if he remembered this event. He said no; but, he is in his 90's and not in the best of health.

Also: Vernon Winfrey, the father of Oprah, was a city councilman here in Nashville Tennessee. He introduced a bill to build a UFO landing site in the city.

This should provide some fodder for the Government cover-up conspiracy theorists in the crowd.

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Message 1262174 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 10:58:23 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 11:09:44 UTC

I wouldn't describe myself as a non-believer, i'm just generally skeptical of this topic, and UFO's. But i'm open-minded at the same time, i would love to spot one.

The results of my UFO watch;

I live on the south coast of Ireland. For roughly the last 5 years, i have watched the Sky's where i live for anything out of the ordinary, but specifically to see if i could spot a UFO or something i could not explain. I suppose you could describe what i have been doing as a type of science experiment. I even have binoculars and a pretty large telescope. If i see something unusual, i am no more than 30 seconds away from the binoculars.

My UFO results;

UFO's = Zero, zilch, nothing. Not a single object or phenomena that i could not explain.

Now i watch the night Sky's roughly once every 2 days, for roughly about 3 to 6 minutes on average. Sometimes i would watch for a half hour, and sometimes i might not watch for several days in a row. But it averages about 3 to 6 minutes every 2 days.

But the end result is that i could explain everything i saw. I put this down to me having a good knowledge of science and astronomy. Alternatively, it could just be that UFO's don't fly around on the south coast of Ireland at the times i watch for them.

But anyway, i think its interesting that after 5 years of doing this I've still never seen a UFO. And its not from lack of watching for them, because i'm intentionally watching for them.

I will continue to watch the night sky's. You never know!

John.
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Message 1262179 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 11:43:20 UTC - in response to Message 1262090.

Everyone's opinions are worth reading, just don't be too thick skinned to ponder another point of view, and don't take offense to another's rebuke. It's all theoretical, as there is no *solid* evidence to point fact or fiction (regardless of Governmental coverups or not, hehe)


On the contrary, every UFO story, if you dig deep enough (such as what Penn and Teller have done in the videos I've posted in this thread), point solidly toward fiction. Its perfectly harmless to get together and tell the modern day equivalent to ghost stories as UFO stories, but it becomes a problem when you start believing in ghosts and UFOs and fail to use any sort of deductive reasoning and critical thinking.

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Message 1262200 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 13:44:51 UTC - in response to Message 1262169.
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 13:46:26 UTC

Hi William!

With non-believer, as stated by yourself, I guess you mean the subject of UFO's, not religion itself?

As a civilization, do we take ourselves as granted based on religion, or do we look at our technological abilities, including reproduction, material and logistical development and capabilities and systems related to transportation and communication?

We find all these elements when it comes to ourselves, still some of us think that UFO's on their own represent some or more of the same things, but possibly at a higher level.

Try imagining being in possession of a craft which may fly as a plane in earth's atmosphere (or possibly somewhere else) and at the same be able to fly through space at the speed of light.

To us, this principle still seem to be a little out of bounds. Typically you have a big carrier like the commandship in Star Wars (with three big motors at the rear), or maybe something slightly little different, like the Death Star.

You are not supposed to be able to fly in earth's atmosphere using such things, you need small crafts for this.

To us such crafts may possibly be associated with UFO's. Still we are unable to relate UFO's with the existence of other civilizations and their possible communication.

Are we sometimes able to detect signals coming from UFO's and maybe even the big ships that they could be having in space, or are we still only looking for signals which may come from other stars and planets?

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Message 1262256 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 17:48:59 UTC - in response to Message 1262200.
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 18:03:30 UTC

Flying through space at the speed of light would require an infinite amount of energy. It literally can't happen. So any UFOs that make it to Earth have to come from many light years away. Also not likely. When we see what truly habitable planets there are in 100 light years from Earth we will have a better feeling for this.

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Message 1262298 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 20:17:14 UTC

I have often thought that neglecting the fuel source and where it is stored is the biggest omission in Sci F1 stories and movies depicting interstellar travel. Usually, as on Stargate, they hold up a crystal about the size of a 5lb. coffee can as the fuel source. The energy requirements of most every powerplant that scientists and engineers are experimenting with are monsterous and would require storage tanks on a planetary scale. Maybe Dark Matter and Dark energy are the answer if we ever discover their true nature.
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Message 1262318 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 21:33:56 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 21:38:34 UTC

Bob, I know you have been here a long time, probably even longer than myself, 2010 as my join year is not correct.

I guess you may have enjoyed watching the Flash Gordon movies (which were in black and white only).

In the same way as the more recent Star Trek production, both these two productions are conveying scenarios representative of Type 1 or maybe Type 2 civilizations, whether or not they do exist at all.

I guess you think that I am not able to see the difference between fictional stories and possible reality, which at times may be available by means of either numbers or possible YouTube videos.

In the same way as Drake's equation only tells us how many civilizations there may possibly exist in a galaxy, this equation does not tell anything about how many of these civilizations are Type 0, like our own, Type 1 (as in Flash Gordon and Star Trek), Type 2 (possible example mentioned earlier), or even Type 3 civilizations (which by some people may not be regarded as being technological civilizations at all).

Anyway, Star Wars is assumed to be portraying a possible Type 3 civilization (by means of the Empire). This comparison does not go totally well with me all the time, technological or not.

There is a comparison between the different types of civilizations which can be found at http://www.weirdwarp.com/2009/07/alien-civilization-types-from-1-to-7/ . This web-page is a quite good one.

If aliens are supposed to always be hiding (at least some of them), why are they supposed to be making us a visit at times? In many cases, it really should not be too much doubt about their origin when the material being available is sufficiently scrutinized in details.

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Message 1262360 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 1:06:12 UTC - in response to Message 1262298.

The energy requirements of most every powerplant that scientists and engineers are experimenting with are monsterous and would require storage tanks on a planetary scale. Maybe Dark Matter and Dark energy are the answer if we ever discover their true nature.


You are right, advances with new fuel sources would undoubtedly need to be developed. But we also can't forget how big the first computers used to be way way back in the good 'ol days :D

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Message 1262365 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 1:38:01 UTC

I wont say this is real stuff but it can be read as cool scifi short story: Reagan briefing If it is a scifi then it is good piece of work.
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Message 1262379 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 3:17:22 UTC - in response to Message 1262365.

Total and complete fake. No one would talk that way. Above top secret get real those classifications are well known and they have names. Someone very naive wrote this false document.

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