The subject of UFOs

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Message 1262066 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 1:02:09 UTC - in response to Message 1262057.  

Yes all you can do is attack regular guys and you do not have piece of guts to debunk your own too sensetive politicians which is classic american hypocracy.


This is no way addresses what I've been asking. Can you please explain to me how former government officials believing in the UFO Conspiracy means that the idea holds an ounce of truth without any evidence?
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Message 1262070 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 1:04:58 UTC - in response to Message 1262059.  
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 1:33:38 UTC

Another cool fact:

"In 1952, in an informal survey of 44 of his fellow astronomers, J. Allen Hynek of Project Blue Book learned that five had seen UFOs. "A higher percentage than among the public at large," Professor Hynek noted in an internal Air Force memorandum. Fear of ridicule kept most scientists silent about their sightings, however. In a 1976 survey of members of the American Astronomical Society, 62 admitted to having had UFO experiences; only one of the scientists made a public report of his sighting."

http://science.howstuffworks.com/space/aliens-ufos/j-allen-hynek.htm

Because church-academia witch hunting is too fierce every where scientists keep silent about witnessing unexplainable areal phenomenons or ufo.


Again, even intelligent people such as scientists are not immune from experiencing things which they are not able to explain. Being a scientist doesn't mean you know everything about everything. You can be a scientist for a pharmaceutical company and know very little about physics or alien UFOs.
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Message 1262090 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 3:48:54 UTC

I love this thread! :) I've had to ponder views that I didn't even consider previously, and it's been a wild ride! But it's obviously gotten a little heated at times. Everyone's opinions are worth reading, just don't be too thick skinned to ponder another point of view, and don't take offense to another's rebuke. It's all theoretical, as there is no *solid* evidence to point fact or fiction (regardless of Governmental coverups or not, hehe)

Enjoy the ride :D
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Profile William Rothamel
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Message 1262169 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 10:25:52 UTC - in response to Message 1262090.  
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 10:26:41 UTC

I am a non-believer but I will recount an event that I have previously posted on this subject over the past 5 years or so.

Back in the 1950's when I was in high school we lived on a street in Northern Virginia which had two Air Force colonels living there as well. One weekend they were required to go in to their duty stations at the Pentagon and at Anacostia Air Base because it was thought that a UFO might land in Washington DC. I find this to be incredible now, I recently asked my Father if he remembered this event. He said no; but, he is in his 90's and not in the best of health.

Also: Vernon Winfrey, the father of Oprah, was a city councilman here in Nashville Tennessee. He introduced a bill to build a UFO landing site in the city.

This should provide some fodder for the Government cover-up conspiracy theorists in the crowd.
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Message 1262174 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 10:58:23 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 11:09:44 UTC

I wouldn't describe myself as a non-believer, i'm just generally skeptical of this topic, and UFO's. But i'm open-minded at the same time, i would love to spot one.

The results of my UFO watch;

I live on the south coast of Ireland. For roughly the last 5 years, i have watched the Sky's where i live for anything out of the ordinary, but specifically to see if i could spot a UFO or something i could not explain. I suppose you could describe what i have been doing as a type of science experiment. I even have binoculars and a pretty large telescope. If i see something unusual, i am no more than 30 seconds away from the binoculars.

My UFO results;

UFO's = Zero, zilch, nothing. Not a single object or phenomena that i could not explain.

Now i watch the night Sky's roughly once every 2 days, for roughly about 3 to 6 minutes on average. Sometimes i would watch for a half hour, and sometimes i might not watch for several days in a row. But it averages about 3 to 6 minutes every 2 days.

But the end result is that i could explain everything i saw. I put this down to me having a good knowledge of science and astronomy. Alternatively, it could just be that UFO's don't fly around on the south coast of Ireland at the times i watch for them.

But anyway, i think its interesting that after 5 years of doing this I've still never seen a UFO. And its not from lack of watching for them, because i'm intentionally watching for them.

I will continue to watch the night sky's. You never know!

John.
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Message 1262179 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 11:43:20 UTC - in response to Message 1262090.  

Everyone's opinions are worth reading, just don't be too thick skinned to ponder another point of view, and don't take offense to another's rebuke. It's all theoretical, as there is no *solid* evidence to point fact or fiction (regardless of Governmental coverups or not, hehe)


On the contrary, every UFO story, if you dig deep enough (such as what Penn and Teller have done in the videos I've posted in this thread), point solidly toward fiction. Its perfectly harmless to get together and tell the modern day equivalent to ghost stories as UFO stories, but it becomes a problem when you start believing in ghosts and UFOs and fail to use any sort of deductive reasoning and critical thinking.
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Message 1262200 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 13:44:51 UTC - in response to Message 1262169.  
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 13:46:26 UTC

Hi William!

With non-believer, as stated by yourself, I guess you mean the subject of UFO's, not religion itself?

As a civilization, do we take ourselves as granted based on religion, or do we look at our technological abilities, including reproduction, material and logistical development and capabilities and systems related to transportation and communication?

We find all these elements when it comes to ourselves, still some of us think that UFO's on their own represent some or more of the same things, but possibly at a higher level.

Try imagining being in possession of a craft which may fly as a plane in earth's atmosphere (or possibly somewhere else) and at the same be able to fly through space at the speed of light.

To us, this principle still seem to be a little out of bounds. Typically you have a big carrier like the commandship in Star Wars (with three big motors at the rear), or maybe something slightly little different, like the Death Star.

You are not supposed to be able to fly in earth's atmosphere using such things, you need small crafts for this.

To us such crafts may possibly be associated with UFO's. Still we are unable to relate UFO's with the existence of other civilizations and their possible communication.

Are we sometimes able to detect signals coming from UFO's and maybe even the big ships that they could be having in space, or are we still only looking for signals which may come from other stars and planets?
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Message 1262256 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 17:48:59 UTC - in response to Message 1262200.  
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 18:03:30 UTC

Flying through space at the speed of light would require an infinite amount of energy. It literally can't happen. So any UFOs that make it to Earth have to come from many light years away. Also not likely. When we see what truly habitable planets there are in 100 light years from Earth we will have a better feeling for this.
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Message 1262298 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 20:17:14 UTC

I have often thought that neglecting the fuel source and where it is stored is the biggest omission in Sci F1 stories and movies depicting interstellar travel. Usually, as on Stargate, they hold up a crystal about the size of a 5lb. coffee can as the fuel source. The energy requirements of most every powerplant that scientists and engineers are experimenting with are monsterous and would require storage tanks on a planetary scale. Maybe Dark Matter and Dark energy are the answer if we ever discover their true nature.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1262318 - Posted: 19 Jul 2012, 21:33:56 UTC
Last modified: 19 Jul 2012, 21:38:34 UTC

Bob, I know you have been here a long time, probably even longer than myself, 2010 as my join year is not correct.

I guess you may have enjoyed watching the Flash Gordon movies (which were in black and white only).

In the same way as the more recent Star Trek production, both these two productions are conveying scenarios representative of Type 1 or maybe Type 2 civilizations, whether or not they do exist at all.

I guess you think that I am not able to see the difference between fictional stories and possible reality, which at times may be available by means of either numbers or possible YouTube videos.

In the same way as Drake's equation only tells us how many civilizations there may possibly exist in a galaxy, this equation does not tell anything about how many of these civilizations are Type 0, like our own, Type 1 (as in Flash Gordon and Star Trek), Type 2 (possible example mentioned earlier), or even Type 3 civilizations (which by some people may not be regarded as being technological civilizations at all).

Anyway, Star Wars is assumed to be portraying a possible Type 3 civilization (by means of the Empire). This comparison does not go totally well with me all the time, technological or not.

There is a comparison between the different types of civilizations which can be found at http://www.weirdwarp.com/2009/07/alien-civilization-types-from-1-to-7/ . This web-page is a quite good one.

If aliens are supposed to always be hiding (at least some of them), why are they supposed to be making us a visit at times? In many cases, it really should not be too much doubt about their origin when the material being available is sufficiently scrutinized in details.
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Message 1262360 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 1:06:12 UTC - in response to Message 1262298.  

The energy requirements of most every powerplant that scientists and engineers are experimenting with are monsterous and would require storage tanks on a planetary scale. Maybe Dark Matter and Dark energy are the answer if we ever discover their true nature.


You are right, advances with new fuel sources would undoubtedly need to be developed. But we also can't forget how big the first computers used to be way way back in the good 'ol days :D

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Message 1262365 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 1:38:01 UTC

I wont say this is real stuff but it can be read as cool scifi short story: Reagan briefing If it is a scifi then it is good piece of work.
Mandtugai!
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Message 1262379 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 3:17:22 UTC - in response to Message 1262365.  

Total and complete fake. No one would talk that way. Above top secret get real those classifications are well known and they have names. Someone very naive wrote this false document.
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Message 1262499 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 11:48:54 UTC - in response to Message 1262379.  

And not even a good fake at that. Looks like it was written by a young author who failed Editorial Creative Writing classes.
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Message 1262725 - Posted: 20 Jul 2012, 22:26:39 UTC

Another problem with UFO's is this - If aliens really did appear in the Sky's, they could hide by simply adding a big flashing red beacon to the underside of the UFO. If they have a flashing red beacon on the bottom of their UFO, then nobody would pay any attention to them because it would just look like any other aeroplane in the sky. In effect they would be hiding in plain sight.

John.
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Message 1262767 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 1:19:38 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 1:20:05 UTC

@ William & Ozzfan,

Yeah man not me but you people have elected 2 ufo guys in 1976, 1980, 1984 as your president and now debunk them how dare you!! ;P
Mandtugai!
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Message 1262772 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 1:29:44 UTC - in response to Message 1262767.  

I really don't understand your hang-up about former US Presidents and UFOs. You seem to think that we "protect" them from criticism because they are former Presidents - yet I've said repeatedly that it doesn't matter who you are, you're not immune from delusion or being fooled by UFO Conspiracy theorists, so I really don't understand your comments at all - beyond the fact that your f---ing crazy.
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Message 1262775 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 1:34:28 UTC - in response to Message 1262256.  

You need to watch a UFOologist Dr. Woods called the Encylopedia of Flying daucers. This guy come up with an original UFO Recovery and Disposal even how to create a cover for the crash. This manual is original in all respects and contridicts everything the airforce knows about flying saucers includeing recovery of both live and dead alien species. They have had communication with aliens since 1953. Project Grudge was started to study green fireballs over Los Alamos,Whitesands, and other secure areas from 10-30 reports or more a month. Eisenhower brought up the Military machine out of control and he wanted ufoshot down onsight. From 1953 on till today the air force has only done dis-information campaign that was Blue Books existance at any cost to hide , obstuct, deny all information cocerning UFOs. Place all information above top secret so reserchers cant recover any information. Ronald Regan did his ET speech and all of a sudden he was brought into the loop and he signed a executive order placeing all photos, videos, documentation above top secret. So now infromation can be destroyed or classed as security requies to make it inaccessible. Now the airforce has denied UFOs for 60 years and all alone they have discovered 37 species and over a hundred different models of UFOs some are interdiminsial. Betty and Barny Hill were picked by beings from the Beta Rticli sytem. Under Hyponosis Betty drew a star chart of the Glise system 29 lightyears away. So all the people that think that they are fake must be reminded of 30000 sightingsa month on average occurs. Funny how the airforce denys that UFOs exist and yet a 1999 manual tells how to recover and disposal od all UFO crash sites and teams worldwide are on standby worldwide to recover UFOs at all costs.

www.tube.com the encycopedia of flying saucers
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Message 1262778 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 1:39:07 UTC
Last modified: 21 Jul 2012, 1:40:50 UTC

Ozzfan you elected ufo guys as public officials not me try to understand that and now even a ufo senator Dennis Kusinich is still seating senator.

I am only supporting given factual phenomenons but all you trying hard is witch hunting.
Mandtugai!
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Message 1262780 - Posted: 21 Jul 2012, 1:42:02 UTC - in response to Message 1262778.  

Ozzfan you elected ufo guys as public officials not me try to understand that and now even a ufo senator Dennis Kusinich still seating senator.


Since when does electing officials who believe in UFOs mean anything? If I only voted for officials that believed 100% as I do, I wouldn't be voting for anybody. Just because someone believes in UFOs, ghosts or God doesn't mean they have to be kicked out of office.

I am only supporting given factual phenomenons but all you trying hard is witch hunting.


You have only offered names of people who believe in UFOs. You have not provided any factual, observable evidence to believe that UFOs have actually been visiting our planet.
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