The subject of UFOs


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synfulsingun1
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Message 1282928 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 17:05:27 UTC

:. Renaissance Art http://lithiumdreamer.tripod.com/ufoart.html

The appearance of fiery chariots and hovering discs in Renaissance Era paintings - as well as beings working their controls and/or attired in garb that we commonly recognize today as spacesuits - proves, at least, that UFOs were being sighted in medieval times. While no direct connection can be isolated from this, between space aliens and religious icons, there certainly is a lot of supernatural phenomena associated in and around these depictions.
The common images of one or more hovering saucer shaped metallic craft, often with highly intense beams of light emanating from the bottom, intelligently controlled and traveling at outrageous speeds - as if the artists witnessed these things first hand - are not in any sense ordinary events, even in modern times. It is extremely hard to find mention of these events, but they do exist - as scattered fragments, vague remnants, survivors of censorship.

One possible explanation is that these paintings were commissioned (by the church or the state) to place these phenomena in a deified context. Officially declared to be the vessels of angels, the peasants would ask fewer annoying questions - that likely, the clergy of the day had scant answers for themselves. It is likely that ancient UFO sightings coincided with important historical and political events - and just as likely that the sightings impressed, or pressured, leaders of the day to take bold, or unusual actions.

One set of images depicts a late 8th century battle, in which Saxon Crusaders besieged and surrounded the people of Sigiburg Castle, in France - when suddenly a group of saucers appeared in the sky, apparently hovering over the top of the church. The Saxons fled, believing that the French were being protected by the "flaming shields."

It was a very superstitious time - but people, as today, knew what they saw - though they probably had little context to associate with it. While there were certainly no flying machines (designed by humans) in those times, there were sailing ships - people were familiar with portholes. Some depictions illustrate these and other classic UFO details - begging the question: what did the ancients think of flying saucers?

Today, we are more comfortable with the idea of beings from outer space. For one thing, we know our world to be a planet, orbiting a star that is one of billions in a rather ordinary galaxy, floating somewhere in the vast reaches of the incalculably infinite universe. People of ancient times were told quite the contrary - that Earth was the center of the universe, the planets were gods, and the stars were fixed points of light on the inside of a celestial sphere. Any close encounter of any kind would most likely have been met with immediate extreme fear and wonder (as is the case today, for the most part), but considered without question to be angels, gods, demons or monsters. Their assertions may have been more on the mark than ours.

There were no airplanes, weather balloons, or experimental military jets to explain away the UFOs native to the skies of the pre industrial aeons. Events such as these would not have been as easily dismissed. Would those who witnessed such craft or encountered such beings first hand, be feared as witches, seen as cursed ~ or even blessed? A medieval abductee might descend from the mountain saying, in a reverent but dazed tone, "I have been touched by the angels."



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~ "The Baptism of Christ" ~
Fitzwilliam Musuem, Cambridge, England
Painted in 1710 by Flemish artist Aert De Gelder
depicts a classic, hovering, silvery, saucer shaped UFO
shining beams of light down on John the Baptist and Jesus.
What could have inspired the artist to combine these two subjects?
____________________________________________________________________




"The Crucifixion" hangs above the altar at the Visoki Decani Monestary in Kosovo, Yugoslavia ~ it was painted in 1350.
On either side of Jesus are a pair of Jetsons like skycars, one chasing the other ~ the pilots apparently working controls.
The leading craft is decorated with two twinkling stars, one reminiscent of national insignia on modern aircraft
_________________________________________________________________________________




Could there possibly have been sightings of UFOs like these, single pilot craft, in medieval Yugoslavia?
Did people of the time merely imagine the inside and workings ~ or did they witness it for themselves?
______________________________________________________________________________________

~ "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino" ~
Above Mary's left shoulder is a shining, or glowing, disk shaped object.
A man and his dog can clearly be seen looking up at the floating object in the composite below.
Painted in the 15th century, Palazzo Vecchio lists the artist as unknown ~ although attributed to the Lippi school.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Upon closer inspection, the man seems to be looking away from the UFO, behind him and over his shoulder.
Or, more likely, the notably out of place object may be imagined floating above the ground between them.
From either perspective, could Mary be seen as blocking the two babies from the flying saucer's view?
Perhaps the dog glimpses the hovering object ~ with it's mouth open, it could even be barking at it.
But what is that dark, sparkling, disassembled figure beside them ~ a dwarf, or an ethereal being?
A body, legs, head, and tail can be made out. Could this represent a type of alien, or demon?
Also, Mary's halo seems a bit shadowy ~ more like a vaporous disc than a ring of light.
___________________________________________________________________________________

~ "The Annunciation" ~
painted by Carlo Crivelli in 1486
on display in the National Gallery in London.
A familiar disk shaped object is shining a beam of light
through the house wall and down onto the top of Mary's head.
Much activity is going on in this painting, besides people pointing
~ filled with cryptic symbolism, the meanings lost to modern researchers.
_______________________________________________________________________________________

What are the strange, ethereal, almost surreal, objects floating above Mary's doorway?
Who is it peeking out from the doorway at the top of the alley stairs on the far left center?
Who is lying on the bed behind Mary ~ and why aren't the people in the street looking up?
What is the disturbance in the clouds, behind the UFO, exactly opposite the energy beam?
_______________________________________________________________________________________





"Glorification of the Eucharist" ~ painting by Bonaventura Salimbeni.
Painted in 1600, today it hangs in the church of San Lorenzo in San Pietro, Montalcino, Italy
Notice the Sputnik Satellite like device that some consider to be a stylized representation of the Earth

Glorification of the Eucharist" - From: A UFO in Pianello?
Ufologists from all parts of the globe come to Montalcino to stare at this amazing painting. Read the story, but you’ll need to come and see it for yourself – only you can decide!
The painting is structured vertically and the Holy Eucharist is placed in the geometric centre surrounded by various holy people and priests on each side. In the upper part of the painting the Holy Trinity is depicted: On the right is God the Father, on the left is God the Son, and above Them in the centre, is the Dove which represents the Holy Spirit. In the lower left one of the people wears a crown similar to that of a Pope – it is believed to be Pope Clemente VII.

But what’s this strange object in the upper centre? What is it that sits between God the Father and God the Son, directly below the Dove? Is it not a shining almost metallic coloured sphere with a strange glow rising at the top? And what are those two long straight rods attached to the surface of the sphere? The rods appear to widen at the bottom to form a round base on the sphere, while at the very tip of the narrow end of the rod, we find a tiny round ball.

Why is God the Father holding on to one rod, and God the Son holding the other? Are these rods some kind of antennae? Look again at the sphere. What is that small round tube shaped protrusion at the bottom left? It is very evident to the eye, but could it be possible? Is it a telescope…or a tiny telecamera?

Perhaps you remember man’s first venture into space, the years of the ‘sputniks’? This painting has Ufologists baffled because this sphere is uncannily reminiscent of early satellites launched into space during the 1950’s. The Vangard II satellite launched by the USA in 1959, for example.

This painting was put to canvas in the year 1600. What did Bonaventura Salimbeni see in the skies above Sienese territory more than four hundred years ago? What on earth – or in space – prompted him to depict the Holy Trinity in this strange manner?


___________________________________________________________________________________________


~ "The Assumption of the Virgin" ~
Painted circa 1490 ~ by an unknown artist.
Saucer shaped "clouds" intrigue modern ufologists.
Could so many have appeared in the sky at one time?
Or, are the hat shaped UFOs depicted so numerous here
to -punctuate- certain events as being particularly holy?


In this painting on wood drawer from furniture kept at the Earls D’Oltremond, in Belgium,
Moses is depicted receiving the tablets of the Ten Commandments, with "flaming horns."
Several equally flaming objects are in the sky before him ~ date and artist are unknown.





Domino or "cigar shaped" craft also appear in ancient art ~ Notabilia Temporum by Angelo de Tummulillis
(left) describes a "flaming girder" sighted in February 1465 the sky during the reign of Enrico IV
~ a similar renaissance illustration (right) of a UFO sighting in that occurred in Rome
detailed in the book "Prodigiorum Liber" by Roman historian Julio Obsequens.
The caption translates: "Something like a sort of weapon, or missile,
rose with a great noise from the earth and soared into the sky."
They resemble the monoliths featured in the movie 2001.

In this ancient Mandarin Chinese painting,
the characters are dressed alike, in blue and black.
Also, the bald heads are reminiscent of the classic Grays.
The flags depicted resemble flames, as from a rocket's exhaust
while the tassels look like helmets and faces can almost be made out
creating the general impression of robed beings - possibly symbolic spirits?



Caption: "These two people want to go on a journey by cart towards the West wind.
After 1000 miles they meet the East wind and then decide to return" (loosely translated).
Although not solid evidence that the ancient Chinese knew of alien visitors, or their sky carts,
there are enough tantalizing clues in the illustration and text to suggest an ancient UFO sighting.


These two tapestries were created in the 15th century.
Both are located at the French Basillica Notre-Dame in Beaune, Burgandy.
Hat shaped objects can be clearly seen in both tapestries which depict the life of Mary.
The above tapestry is entitled "The Magnificat" ~ the below tapestry's title is unknown.

~ England UFO Sighting from 1742 ~
~ UFO Sighting from Westminster, England in 1742 ~
This is a scan from Vol. 42 of the Philosophical Transactions 1742
describing a UFO sighting that occurred on the 16th of December in that year.
Below is a contemporary reconstruction depicting the object with the colors described.


As I was returning home from the Royal Society to Westminster
on Tuesday, Dec. 16, 1742 h. 8. 40' p. m. being about the
Middle of the Parade in St. James's Park, I saw a Light arise from
behind the Trees and Houses in the S. by W. Point, which I took
at first for a large Sky-Rocket ; but when it had risen to the Height
of about 20 Degrees, it took a Motion nearly parallel to the Hori-
zon, but waved in this manner,

~~~~~~~~~~

and went on to the N. by E. .Point over the Houses. It seemed
to be very near, that I thought it passed over Queen's Square,
the Island in the Park, cross the Canal, and I lost sight of it over
the Haymarshes. Its Motion was so very slow that I had it above
half a minute in view; and therefore had Time enough to contemplate
its Appearance fully, which was what is seen in the annexed figure,

A seemed to be a light Flame, turning backwards from the Resist
-ance the Air made to it. B B a bright fire like burning charcoal,
inclosed as it were in an open Case, of which the Frame CCC was
quite opaque, like Bands of Iron. At D issued forth a Train or
Tail of light Flame, more bright at D, and glowing gradually
fainter at E, so as to be transparent more than half its length.
The Head seemed about half a Degree in Diameter, the Tail next 3
Degrees in length, and above one Eighth of a Degree in Thickness.
C.M.



UFO sighting from Windsor Castle - August 18, 1783
From: Historical Artwork and UFOs by Matthew Hurley
The above illustration depicts a sighting that occurred at 9.45pm on the evening of 18th August 1783 when four witnesses on the terrace of Windsor Castle observed a luminous object in the skies of the Home Counties of England. The sighting was recorded the following year in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. According to this report, witnesses observed an oblong cloud moving more or less parallel to the horizon. Under this cloud could be seen a luminous object which soon became spherical, brilliantly lit, which came to a halt; This strange sphere seemed at first to be pale blue in colour but then its luminosity increased and soon it set off again towards the east. Then the object changed direction and moved parallel to the horizon before disappearing to the south-east; the light it gave out was prodigious; it lit up everything on the ground. The image was captured in this by Thomas Sandby (a founder of the Royal Academy) and his brother Paul, both of whom witnessed the event.



17th Century fresco depicting the Crucifixion of Christ,
located in the Svetishoveli Cathedral in Mtskheta, Georgia.
Notice the two saucer shaped objects on either side of Christ
~ complete with stylized flames, blasting off in either direction.



In the two blow ups (below) you can see that they contain faces.
Certainly ancient UFOs were associated with the highest of divinity
~ but were the requisite lights perhaps thought to be the eyes of angels?







Image from the French book
"Le Livre Des Bonnes Moeurs"
by Jacques Legrand, 1338 (left).
Sphere resembles a Montgolfiere
(French for baloon) but there were
no balloons 14th centurey France.
Notice also: several daylight stars,
the monstrous faces in the rocks
and the men are offering seeds?




~"The Miracle of the Snow" ~
by Masolino Da Panicale circa 1400
(right) from Florence, Italy ~ in the
Church of Santa Maria Maggiore,
depicting Jesus and Mary on very
non vaporous "lenticular clouds"
(flat and circular), or accompanied
by an armada of flying saucers
stretching beyond the horizon.



Illustration of a Nuremburg
UFO sighting, April 14, 1561.
Held at the Wickiana Collection
~ in the Zurich Central Library
From a woodcut by Hans Glasser,
it appeared in a local broadsheet
(see caption quoted below).

A 1479 sighting over Arabia,
from "Prodigiorum Ac Ostentorum
Chronicon" by Conrad Lycosthenes
Originally published in 1557,
the book is held at the
Australian Museum
Research Library.


"The globes, crosses and tubes began to fight one another, and this went on for an hour. Then they all fell to earth, as if on fire, and faded slowly away producing a lot of steam. Afterwards a black spear-like object was seen, and the whole event was taken to be a divine warning."




Broadsheet picture by Samuel Coccius illustrates many flaming and "large black globes"
that were repoted to have appeared in the skies over Basel, Switzerland in 1566.
From the Wickiana Collection, Zurich Central Library, Switzerland.



This 15th century fresco from Kiev
seems to show Jesus in a rocket type device.
Notice that the attendants seem to be wearing helmets
like the glass globe space helmets from popular science fiction
~ more than simple haloes, these completely encircle the heads.



UFO sighting over Hamburg, Germany ~ on November 4, 1697
The objects were described as being "two glowing wheels"
Note: if the round object on the far right is the moon,
the UFOs were either very low or very large.
Notice also the many people pointing
~ this was likely a famous event.



UFO Sighting over Angers France, in 842 AD
(artist and date unknown)






These images from the 12th century manuscript "Annales Laurissenses"
(Latin for "volumes" or "books" about "historical and religious" events)
depicts the Saxon siege of Sigiburg Castle, France, in the year 776.
The Crusaders had the medieval French completely surrounded
when the "flaming shields" suddenly appeared in the sky;
(the manuscript reports this as being over a church).
Assuming the French were being protected,
the Saxons fled in fear from the UFOs.

"La Tebaide" ~ Academy of Florence, painted c.1460-1465 by Paolo Uccello
The close-up (right) shows a reddish, classic saucer shaped UFO near Jesus.
In addition, the tall pine trees in the foreground display the same patterns
as seen in the lenticular clouds of other similar religious UFO paintings.


UFO sighting by two Dutch ships - North Sea, 1660
From: Historical Artwork and UFOs by Matthew Hurley
The illustration depicts a sighting by two Dutch ships in the North Sea of an object moving slowly in the sky. It appeared to be made by two disks of different size. The source for this account is one of the books entitled, "Theatrum Orbis Terrarum" by Admiral Blaeu. These books were compilations of articles by different authors and consisted of detailed accounts of long engagements at sea, cartography information etc.



"Summer's Triumph" ~ tapestry created in Bruges, in 1538 ~ Bayerisches National Museum.
Several disc shaped objects are clearly depicted in the sky, near the top of the tapestry.
The inclusion of "hat ships" in this work may have been a shrewd political move
designed to sway local opinion, by connecting UFOs to the current rulers
~ and therefore claiming divine intervention in their ascent to power.



This illustration depicts the sighting of a burning wheel over Japan, in the year 900 AD.
The winged creature on the left may be seen waving to, or flying away from the craft
~ but more likely waving goodbye to the two venerable monks on the right,
who may symbolically represent Grays, (artist and date unknown).
Many ancient Eastern cultures are known to have advanced,
incongruous knowledge of science that may be explained
by an exchange of knowledge with extraterrestrials.
Could this image be depicting an actual event?



Nankin, China ~ September 28, 1890
Drawn by painter Wu You-run, one of over
100 gathered on the Shu Que bridge, to see a
"red fireball that moved slowly to the east."
The UFO (faint, circled) is described as
"looking like an egg but not shining."
An old man said, "when the ball appeared,
I heard a very loud sound like running man."




Haratonohama, Hitachi, Japan ~ 1803
The book "Ume No Chiri" (Dust of Apricot)
tells us that a "foreign ship and crew" was once
witnessed at Haratonohama (Haratono Seashore)
in Hitachi no Kuni (Ibaragi Prefecture), Japan.
The outer shell was made of iron and glass ~
and strange letters were seen inside the ship.
Notice also four examples of alien heiroglyphs.




From: Historical Artwork and UFOs by Matthew Hurley
The above image comes from the 10th Century Tibetan translation of the Sanskrit text "Prajnaparamita Sutra", held at a Japanese museum. In the enlargement you can see two objects that look like hats, but why are they floating in mid air? Also one of them appears to have port holes on it. Indian Vedic texts are full of descriptions of Vimanas. The Ramayana describes Vimanas as a double decked, circular or cylindrical aircraft with portholes and a dome. It flew with "the speed of the wind" and gave forth a "melodious sound."
Does anyone have any information on this image? [below] You can just make out six silvery saucer shaped objects.


~ UFO Coin, 1680 ~
French Medal apparently commemorating
a UFO sighting of a wheel like object in Renaissance France [img][/img]
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Message 1282949 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 17:25:11 UTC

There is one message that has never changed since the beginning of man kind and it is the message written in everyone that has ever lived or existed its the message in our DNA that has never changed. Once we have figured out how to convert that message to something we can understand , how we became what we are and will be , and that everything that exist came from the stars, only then will we understand our purpose for being here.
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Message 1282976 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 18:39:18 UTC

So much for "SETI@Home Science". They should just rename this forum to SETI@Home Conspiracy Theories and Unproven Ideas.

I officially give up on trying to encourage this group to skeptically question what they think they believe to be truth.

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Message 1283038 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 23:27:17 UTC - in response to Message 1282949.

There is one message that has never changed since the beginning of man kind and it is the message written in everyone that has ever lived or existed its the message in our DNA that has never changed. Once we have figured out how to convert that message to something we can understand , how we became what we are and will be , and that everything that exist came from the stars, only then will we understand our purpose for being here.

I agree 100%!

John.
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Message 1283040 - Posted: 12 Sep 2012, 23:28:53 UTC - in response to Message 1282976.
Last modified: 12 Sep 2012, 23:32:06 UTC

So much for "SETI@Home Science". They should just rename this forum to SETI@Home Conspiracy Theories and Unproven Ideas.

I officially give up on trying to encourage this group to skeptically question what they think they believe to be truth.

Ozzfan,
Ok, i second that motion! From this day forward, this forum will be known as;
SETI@Home Conspiracy Theories and Unproven Ideas

What a great idea!....LOL....:)

But we will need another forum for you Ozzfan. Can i suggest;
SETI@Home ultra pure scientific skeptics forum

John.
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Message 1283055 - Posted: 13 Sep 2012, 0:29:05 UTC - in response to Message 1283040.

So much for "SETI@Home Science". They should just rename this forum to SETI@Home Conspiracy Theories and Unproven Ideas.

I officially give up on trying to encourage this group to skeptically question what they think they believe to be truth.

Ozzfan,
Ok, i second that motion! From this day forward, this forum will be known as;
SETI@Home Conspiracy Theories and Unproven Ideas

What a great idea!....LOL....:)

But we will need another forum for you Ozzfan. Can i suggest;
SETI@Home ultra pure scientific skeptics forum

John.


No, a forim based on actual science would suffice.

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Message 1283457 - Posted: 14 Sep 2012, 5:21:27 UTC

Going a little off the subject here but I tend to wonder if mankind is not going in the right direction with UFO's, here we spend a lot of money and time and resources on the ability of trying to find life on other planets. while we can only hope that one day we will. But what if we took this from another angle and made our solar system a giant beacon where we tagged asteroids and planets with beacons that could be seen or heard from outside of our solar system? If the earth is the tiny needle in the hay stack why not make it easier to find, and tell the universe we are here?
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Message 1284350 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 2:35:19 UTC - in response to Message 1283457.

Going a little off the subject here but I tend to wonder if mankind is not going in the right direction with UFO's, here we spend a lot of money and time and resources on the ability of trying to find life on other planets. while we can only hope that one day we will. But what if we took this from another angle and made our solar system a giant beacon where we tagged asteroids and planets with beacons that could be seen or heard from outside of our solar system? If the earth is the tiny needle in the hay stack why not make it easier to find, and tell the universe we are here?

There is a large contingent of people who think such a beacon is not a very good idea. Maybe for our stage of development it is best that we stay undiscovered and under the radar. On the other hand maybe our pressence is well known and are on a black list of planets that are off limits as we have still failed to demonstrate any ability to get along with our neighbors here on earth, let alone any galactic neighbors.
____________
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My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

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Message 1284562 - Posted: 16 Sep 2012, 18:23:37 UTC - in response to Message 1284350.
Last modified: 16 Sep 2012, 18:26:29 UTC

Darn it. Link went to the thread rather than the post.. :(

Good Morning Earthlings, I am an undercover E.T. working for my superiors on Sirius A - you know, those 2 stars somewhere in your galaxy.

I've been here long enough to make a detailed report on whether or not we make first contact...........

..........and to be honest, my report will state NO.NO.NO

When asked as to why not? My report will state the following: -

Earthlings cannot work together for a common gaol
They enjoy attacking each other
They hate cultures different from their own
They are power mad
They are greedy
They are untrustworthy
They are too warlike

We should consider sending out a galaxy wide quarantine notice to avoid Earth at all costs!

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Message 1289361 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 16:21:42 UTC

Google joins the "UFO" Craze......

UFO's found on Google View

There really are some dumb mutts out there!
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Message 1289520 - Posted: 29 Sep 2012, 21:49:46 UTC

Yay, close ups of a street light :-))

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Message 1289545 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 0:44:58 UTC - in response to Message 1258812.

Hi Chris,

I wonder has anyone applied to NASA for experiment time/space on a lunar or mars mission to monitor the EM profile of earth? Knowing how our own inhabited world looks against the cosmic background would surely help. When searching the proverbial haystack it helps to know what the needle looks like.

Just wondering ...

Stephen

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Message 1289554 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 1:40:34 UTC - in response to Message 1261951.


So pointing out facts, or the other person's lack of evidence is now considered "ridicule"?

Yes! Your pretty sharp!


Ummm... no. That's not ridicule. Ridicule is defined by the dictionary as mockery, derision, taunting, jeering, and scoffing. While I have done those things on occasion when I feel the person is simply being ridiculous, I don't ridicule people who actually bring facts to the table.

So every person that doesn't have an avatar is being "impolite"? I hardly think so. It is my account and I can do with it as I wish so long as it doesn't break the posting rules.

I certainly don't use an image of a glass of Guinness with "Paddy's [sic] in Space" as "putting a name and a face" on you. Nor do I think Misfit a female because of his Avatar. Or Dullnando to be a devil. Again, I ask, "What's in a name?"



OK, I will preface this by saying that I agree with most of the thinking behind your comments but I was wondering if maybe you should consider changing your nick to "Sheldon".

Ahem, also you do seem to have missed the point of the avatar.
I'll have a pint too ..........

Stephen

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Message 1289561 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 2:20:54 UTC - in response to Message 1289554.

OK, I will preface this by saying that I agree with most of the thinking behind your comments but I was wondering if maybe you should consider changing your nick to "Sheldon".


No, my IQ didn't test as high as Sheldon's. I'm about 27 points lower than he. But I'll gladly take that as a compliment!

Ahem, also you do seem to have missed the point of the avatar.
I'll have a pint too ..........


With all due respect, I don't believe I have. But it would be interesting to ask you what you think the point of his avatar means.

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Message 1289591 - Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 5:14:52 UTC

Our life is linked directly to the stars. The elemental elements that make up our species also are found in the stars. The idea of species found on another water world as long as water in liquid form and a temperant envirment life seems to find a way to fill every niche of habital ground. Many stars are billions of years older than ours if their life exists and persistant trail and error a way could be found for the distance barrier between stars conquered and exploration follows. I dont think I could say that life cant be found somewhere else comparible to the earth. Planets other than the earth mdont have carbon that is essential for life on earth as we know it. Mars has no carbon anywhere on the surface but methane has been dectected a by product of life. Organic decay makes methane maybe below the surface of mars exist a possible link to microbial life. A martian colony might be attempted if funding is availible. Robtic missions are the best we can do it.Man as a species will have to leave the earth in 3 billion years. We are headed for a head on collision withe Andromada galaxy. In 5 billion years our sun will die. So some way to exist as a species we have to leave our galaxy and hope we find a peacefull star with a water world like the earth and hope we can adapt to a alien world...

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Message 1292510 - Posted: 7 Oct 2012, 19:09:07 UTC - in response to Message 1289591.

How old are stars, some are seeming to be older than the universe at 12.3-15.7 billion years old. Our sun at an estimated 5 billion years old, other stars in our neighbor hood are much older. In our own galaxy some satillite star cluster are composed of emmensely older stars. The possibilty of these stable old stars having water worlds like the earth is highly possible.
Can life travel between the stars? We have started but havent found anything but deslolation and seemily dead worlds.
Homo sapiens modern man is roughly been around only been around 40000 years, Neanderthals were around for over 200000 years and even shared the same habitats. Now mosern man has taken hold but how could Homo Sapiens evovle from his closest relative and change so quikly. At this time 40000 years ago is the start of modern man and something happened to make man more than a hunter gatherer but a builder. What happened to mankind too fast for evelution to explain the speedyness of his knownledge. How can this be explained? Man the dominant species was neanderthals for over 200000 years and go extinct. Was man enhanced genectically 40000 years ago by some visitors who can say but something happened because modern man is different but genectically bound to neanserthals.
I would say for this to happen so fast is for some intervention somewhere to make homosapiens. So we must be the alien species introduced to adapt to this world or go extinct.

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Message 1292668 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 2:45:35 UTC

Larry good post, and yes stars are made up of the same composition as humans, and yes you do have to wonder did man evolve the way science says he evolved? There are lots of species on earth that could never had gone through evolution to become what it is today. Take the giraffe, its an unusual animal that contains an interesting design mechanism. Did you know that a full grown giraffe's heart weighs over 24 pounds and pumps 16 gallons a minute? Because the giraffe's heart is much larger than his head, a series of special one-way, back-flow prevent-er If evolution is true, the struggle for the Giraffe to survive must have been one ugly sight! Let's take a look at one possible outcome... valves are needed in the neck to regulate the flow of blood to the head, especially when the giraffe is bending down to get that much needed drink of water. Without these valves, the immense blood pressure coupled with gravity would make for one nasty headache and other such repercussions. Elastic blood vessels in the giraffe's head allow harboring of enough blood to prevent the giraffe from passing out when bent in this position.

The creationist points out that this intricate design mechanism is, you guessed it, a design! The evolutionist will have you believe that this system evolved with time, that eventually a giraffe mutated merrily along until the valves properly formed in the neck and the elastic blood vessels sufficiently formed in the head (along with other details left out here). Giraffe with a distressed look on his face, revealing the discomfort due to buildup of pressure on the brain! He's pretty thirsty, hopefully that mutating valve will hold out.

Warning - Explicit cranial explosion! Not recommended for members of PETA*!

Proceed with caution, *PETA stands for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. This knucklehead group condemns fetal tissue research on animals while at the same time supporting it on human fetuses! They are more interested in worshiping the creation than the Creator (Romans 1:25). I pride myself as a member of an different organization also called PETA - People who Eat Tasty Animals! But not the Giraffe LOL ewww...This series required a wild (and some would say warped) imagination on my part! But wild imagination coupled with extravagant story-telling ability is exactly what the evolutionist must employ to explain how intricate, inter-dependent systems such as the Giraffe's capillary system can gradually evolve over time!

To say every living thing came about via mindless random processes requires a faith that far exceeds belief in a Supreme Creator. As the renown British physicist Lord Kelvin once wrote: "Overwhelming strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us ... The atheistic idea is so nonsensical that I cannot put it into words." The Whale OK, this isn't a whale, but this wolf-like creature is supposedly the whale's great, great, great, great, ... great granddaddy! The evolutionist must make this leap of faith because the whale is a mammal. Evolutionists believe that certain fish a long time ago learned to walk out of the water and eventually evolved into mammals. Since there are mammals such as whales in the water, they were forced to postulate that a few of the land mammals became homesick and returned to the water and became whales! Wow!

The whale has many incredibly complex mechanisms that makes it vastly different than land-dwelling mammals. For example, whales have a huge chamber of sperm oil that allows adjustment of buoyancy at different depths, and are equipped with features that allow them to withstand the enormous amount of pressure they encounter at great depths. Their eyes have a far higher refractive index to allow them to see in water, and their ears can pick up airborne sound waves under high pressure. Whales also possess very complex sonar capability.According to Carl Sagan, "The secrets of evolution are death and time - the deaths of enormous numbers of life forms that were imperfectly adapted to the environment; and time for a long succession of small mutations that were by accident adaptive, time for the slow accumulation of patterns of favorable mutations1."

The Whale

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Despite no real biological or fossil evidence2 of this wolf-to-whale transition, evolutionists still hold to this imaginative fairy tale (see The Overselling of Whale Evolution). The evolutionist Ernst Mayr once candidly wrote that "it is a considerable strain on one's credulity to assume that finely balanced systems such as certain sense organs (the eye of vertebrates, or the bird's feather) could be improved by random mutations3." We agree that the evolutionist's credulity is quite strained!1. The fossil record certainly doesn't help the evolutionist's position. Considering the quantity of avian (bird) and especially bat fossils that have been unearthed, if evolution were true there should be hundreds of thousands of examples of transitional forms demonstrating a gradual limb-to-wing development over time. But there are none! Instead, birds and bats appear fully formed in the fossil record, as would be expected if creation were true. Indeed, the oldest fossil bat (called Icaronycteris by long-winded evolutionists) is supposedly 50 million years old, yet is indistinguishable from a modern bat! (see Glenn Jepson, Science 154:1333-1339, 1966). Additionally, both non-flying and flying insects are found in the fossil record, without a trace of intermediate insects in the process of obtaining the ability to fly. Where are the ancestors to the flying insects, and where are the intermediate steps? The answer is simple - they don't exist because evolution is a fairy tale! If you think about all the different species of animals and insects and humans alike it really sounds like earth is a repository for other alien worlds and we are the experiment for them. Just one theory.....

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Message 1292743 - Posted: 8 Oct 2012, 8:37:50 UTC

Girafes evolved with long necks as they like to eat the leaves at the top of trees. Those with genes that produced the longest necks were more likely to survive and breed further, than those that did not. it's all about the survival of the fittest best suited to their environment. Read up on the Galapagos finches.

Of course it could be asked why did the girafe evolve wanting to eat leaves at that height in the first place? Wouldn't it have been more sensible to have gradually altered their dining habits to eat food placed lower down?

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Message 1296034 - Posted: 17 Oct 2012, 3:34:53 UTC - in response to Message 1292743.

Did you know that giraffs and sparrows have the dame amount of neck bones. I learned this little tidbit from a man in the Detroit Historical museam.Something that lately that little has been said about the amount of radation you recieve in space. Mars at the surface gets 200 mr on a daily basis and spikes over 400 mr that can be fatal. I just recently monitored daily radation on the surface of mars and I never continplated the amounts are very high. Even voyager 1 is monitoring radation 11.8 billion miles from the sun but now has a drop off at the edge of the helioussphere of the sun. Best bet for a long distance spacecraft is an asteroids. Mine it build it so it can parked in orbit and develope it into a space station.Impervious to impacts and shielding from intense radation.

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Message 1296486 - Posted: 18 Oct 2012, 8:22:56 UTC

Mine it build it so it can parked in orbit and develope it into a space station.Impervious to impacts and shielding from intense radation.

The ISS needs to regularly be lifted and lowered in its earth orbit to avoid space junk and other debris.

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