The Great Debate (religion)

random mutations

Why is it called random? As I have said, remove chance and it's design.

It's "random", because some of those first cells of life on earth turned into what we evolved from, and the rest turned into everything else. Randomly.

Yes, what you call---Randomly.

I do not. If one random event fits into another which fits into another, ect, ect, ect, random isn't a word that we can use anymore.

If you throw a bunch of marbles on the floor and let them roll where they roll, some will roll around on the floor right in front of you, others will fall downs some stairs, others roll into other rooms, maybe some fall into the vents, under tables and chairs, etc.

If you then pick up one marble, and re-trace its steps all the way back to when it first hit the floor, I suppose you would say that "design" is how that one marble got to be where it ended up? Totally overlooking the fact that the marbles randomly went everywhere. Any one marble can be traced back through a series of events that led it to end up where it landed. You can pick up one marble, retrace its steps and say hey "this is the story of how this marble got here". However that does not prove anything.

Because the events that led that marble to get there, were nothing more than a series of random chances.

Proof in this case is somewhat circumstantial. All available evidence indicates that our Universe is 13.75 billion or so years old. There are many different measurements that have lead scientists to believe this,

Ok so far.

though, just as with Gary's simulator thought experiment, it is possible (though outside scientific consideration) that the Universe was created a fraction of a second ago with all the elements set up to make it appear it's age coincides with the best approximation of science.

Um ... sorry, I'll leave you out on your limb there. Think you might be a bit lonely.

Proof in this case is somewhat circumstantial. All available evidence indicates that our Universe is 13.75 billion or so years old. There are many different measurements that have lead scientists to believe this,

Ok so far.

though, just as with Gary's simulator thought experiment, it is possible (though outside scientific consideration) that the Universe was created a fraction of a second ago with all the elements set up to make it appear it's age coincides with the best approximation of science.

Um ... sorry, I'll leave you out on your limb there. Think you might be a bit lonely.

Isn't that a random deviance from it is all designed?

The soul has freewill. The soul commands the body. We have freewill over what we have freewill over. You don't believe in the soul?

No, what makes you think we operate the same as the earth, lifespan, nor does the earth have a soul. We are made in His Image.

Then that is one really messed up god.

*snip*
What is beauty? ;-]

If you believe in chance. I do not.

random mutations

Why is it called random? As I have said, remove chance and it's design.

It's "random", because some of those first cells of life on earth turned into what we evolved from, and the rest turned into everything else. Randomly.

Yes, what you call---Randomly.

I do not. If one random event fits into another which fits into another, ect, ect, ect, random isn't a word that we can use anymore.

Why is only String Theory used in schools and called correct? The list of why's is very long if we say who is correct... Man?

random mutations

Why is it called random? As I have said, remove chance and it's design.

So your God decides when each and every radioactive atom undergoes decay, what direction the decay products travel, when chemical bonds form and break, etc. That seems a bit much for me. It also removes free will as his decisions on the chemical bonds prevent you from doing anything except what he divines. So if you sin, it is God who made you sin as he controls your body.

The soul has freewill. The soul commands the body. We have freewill over what we have freewill over. You don't believe in the soul?

quick note on evolution (darwin as prophet is not in the curriculum)

Although the scientific evidence that evolution has occurred many times over,
this neither proves nor disproves the "Divine" theory. It does however disprove the universe is less than 10,000 years old.

Weather it's being said out loud to the student matters not.

It's a game of chance. I do accept very large parts of Darwin as true and correct[the book he wrote]. It's what was done with his work after that I object to.

Actually, I don't think that we operate the same as the earth.

As to the made in his image view -- that is faith speaking.

No, what makes you think we operate the same as the earth, lifespan, nor does the earth have a soul. We are made in His Image.

And there you go -- you don't believe in chance. It is, as you are saying, a belief.

A colleague of mine said many many years ago, that if the only tool you have is a hammer, the world looks very nailish.

It seems to apply here. If your *belief* system is Intelligent Design, then all you see is filtered through that belief system. It is a belief system (faith) and as such, no argument will shake you from that. Fair enough. Of course, the reverse is also true. Those who hold to a belief system that does not adhere to your belief system will not be influenced by any efforts on your part to convert them.

It is an interesting exercise in exposition though.

Hawkings, yes. If you believe in chance. I do not.

*snip*
What is beauty? ;-]

It is in the eye of the beer holder. Again, perception is reality.

There you go, world looking very nailish indeed.

God does not make junk.

If you believe in chance. I do not.

Thus you reject the current best approximation science provides for the Universe in which we find ourselves. I suspect we are done.

Proof in this case is somewhat circumstantial. All available evidence indicates that our Universe is 13.75 billion or so years old. There are many different measurements that have lead scientists to believe this,

Ok so far.

though, just as with Gary's simulator thought experiment, it is possible (though outside scientific consideration) that the Universe was created a fraction of a second ago with all the elements set up to make it appear it's age coincides with the best approximation of science.

Um ... sorry, I'll leave you out on your limb there. Think you might be a bit lonely.

*snip*
What is beauty? ;-]

It is in the eye of the beer holder. Again, perception is reality.

Ahhh, the old beer glasses trick.

God does not make junk.