Lol, round and round we go.

I am not sure if I believe in anything.

[I should have specified earlier "I believe in the possibility of something outside of our universe"]

Anyone with an open mind believes in possibilities. I'm an Atheist but I'm still open to the possibility of the existence of a God (but I prefer evidence-based logic, and even then we get into all sorts of questions as to what constitutes being a "god" or being "The God").

I don't believe in the existence of any God or god, I lack faith, ergo I'm Atheist.

So, I suppose, since I believe in possibility of something beyond our universe, and the possibility of a god,

You can call me Deist then...?

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#resist

So if I only believe in the possibility of a god, then that makes me Atheist.

Come on [ALT] make up your mind.. :-)

You tell me which I classify as.

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So, I suppose, since I believe in possibility of something beyond our universe, and the possibility of a god,

You can call me Deist then...?

But I believe in the "possibility" of something too. I'm open to the possibility, therefore I believe in the "possibility".

So remove possibility [natural skepticism] and remove knowledge [empirical understanding] and what are you left with? Faith. Do you have faith that something is out there? Or do you not have faith that something is out there?

I do not have faith that something is out there. I lack faith.

Without scientific proof I can't have "faith"...

But I don't need proof to theorize on the possibilities.

So I guess then call me Atheist.





{Thread needs to be locked and #2 started}

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So if I only believe in the possibility of a god, then that makes me Atheist.

Come on [ALT] make up your mind.. :-)

You tell me which I classify as.

I believe in the possibility of an alien being on planet Bob, and I believe his name is possibly Xrack.

Do I absolutely believe that there is an alien named Xrack from the planet Bob? No. I don't put any faith into the belief that there is an alien named Xrack from the planet Bob. I could be wrong; there might very well be an alien named Xrack from the planet Bob, but until I see some evidence to support this idea, I put no faith into it at all.

Do you see how this works? :-)

As far as what exists outside of our universe, I don't know what's there, none of us do. So given that I don't know, I am therefore "on the fence". (whether or not you think that's possible)

While I won't attempt to change your mind on about that, a similar thought occurred to me some time ago, and it seems to me not all that different to the question about whether the "Designer" the ID hypothesis argues exists is God. If there is an "outside" to the universe, then one could end up recursively going further and further "outside" until the ultimate "outside" is discovered, or find that there are an infinity of outsides. With an ultimate outside then God, with an infinity of them, then no God.

I choose the simpler, no God, solution, simpler to me because it doesn't require me to believe that there is an outside in the first place, and even if we could find there is such a thing, it answer's what's outside the thing that's outside our universe.

While I don't *know* what's "outside" the Universe, (or even if the idea itself is worthy of merit), the fact of this lack of knowledge does not lead me to entertain the possibility of belief in the supernatural, thus atheist, not agnostic.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Without scientific proof I can't have "faith"...

On the contrary, science is all about evidence-based logic in an attempt to gain an empirical understanding.

Faith is what makes someone believe despite the lack of evidence.

But I don't need proof to theorize on the possibilities.

No one needs proof for possibilities. One needs proof if you want to convince others around you that your possibility/idea holds water.

So I guess then call me Atheist.

I don't think you are.

Without scientific proof I can't have "faith"...

On the contrary, science is all about evidence-based logic in an attempt to gain an empirical understanding.

Faith is what makes someone believe despite the lack of evidence.

But I don't need proof to theorize on the possibilities.

No one needs proof for possibilities. One needs proof if you want to convince others around you that your possibility/idea holds water.

So I guess then call me Atheist.

I don't think you are.

But you yourself said just because I believe something is possible does not mean I believe it to be fact.
And since I believe nothing [as far as Faith is concerned] as "fact",
does that not make me atheist?

I mean I wont believe something to be fact without scientific proof, this leads me to believe "I lack faith". What I don't lack is theory, but that is NOT faith.

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But you yourself said just because I believe something is possible does not mean I believe it to be fact.
And since I believe nothing [as far as Faith is concerned] as "fact",
does that not make me atheist?

That's an oxymoron. Of course you can't believe in faith as fact. I said remove fact [empirical understanding] and remove skepticism [merely possibilities] and what are you left with? You're left with faith.

I mean I wont believe something to be fact without scientific proof, this leads me to believe "I lack faith". What I don't lack is theory, but that is NOT faith.

So then remove possibility and skepticism. Do you still have faith that something is out there despite the lack of evidence? Mind you, I am not asking if you believe in the possibility. I'm asking you if you believe without evidence?

[quote]...Of course you can't believe in faith as fact...

Alas, [ignorant] people make that mistake everyday.

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I mean I wont believe something to be fact without scientific proof, this leads me to believe "I lack faith". What I don't lack is theory, but that is NOT faith.

So then remove possibility and skepticism. Do you still have faith that something is out there despite the lack of evidence? Mind you, I am not asking if you believe in the possibility. I'm asking you if you believe without evidence?

No. I can't.

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[quote]...Of course you can't believe in faith as fact.

Alas, [ignorant] people make that mistake everyday.

Agreed. We have one in this very thread that drew me out of seclusion from this portion of the message boards.

I mean I wont believe something to be fact without scientific proof, this leads me to believe "I lack faith". What I don't lack is theory, but that is NOT faith.

So then remove possibility and skepticism. Do you still have faith that something is out there despite the lack of evidence? Mind you, I am not asking if you believe in the possibility. I'm asking you if you believe without evidence?

No. I can't.

Then that sounds a whole lot more like Atheism to me.

^^ @
You've been making me think too hard :-). (But it was a refreshing change of pace rather than arguing pointlessly that creation theory is not science........)

I think it's beer time. :-)

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^^ @ Guy
Oh. and here we go again.............

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But I've pretty much stated my beliefs to that person, and I've noted his. At this point I really don't have anything left to say on the subjects he is arguing for.

Hopefully the thread will evolve. I was actually planning to make such a thread a few weeks ago when I saw how some people responded to a thread of msattler's.

But I've pretty much stated my beliefs to that person, and I've noted his. At this point I really don't have anything left to say on the subjects he is arguing for.

Hopefully the thread will evolve. I was actually planning to make such a thread a few weeks ago when I saw how some people responded to a thread of msattler's.

Saw that very thing go on with Mark's thread.

I try to avoid religious discussions as much as possible. But someone took religion and spoke about it in the context of it being taught in public school, an idea that I will always speak against.
To teach religion in public school (ESPECIALLY as science) is to take ones freedom of religion away, at the very least. And some people may go farther and say that that would also be teaching ignorance, in addition to limiting one's religious rights.

Now If the aforementioned person that promotes this idea, instead wants to make a thread about his beliefs in the context of his religion, I am more than supportive. However you would not find me posting in that thread, much like Mark's that you mentioned.

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