China - Is she getting frisky?


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Sirius B
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Message 1288042 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 13:59:12 UTC - in response to Message 1288018.

WWIII is more likely to start in the Middle east than anywhere else, and will probably involve Israel somewhere.



That may actually be the case, but it will be a "blind sided" event. As Desert Storm & Desert Freedom has proved, Middle Eastern Armed Forces, although quite large, are not very disciplined or very cohesive as an armed force.

With the dissolution of the Soviet Union leaving Russia vying to remain "a potent force" on the International scene due to their nuclear forces acting as a deterrent, & with Europe in disarray, compared to World War 2, there is no large cohesive disciplined force available to act as a deterrent to prevent a major war from erupting.

One cannot rely on the USA as all they are interested in maintaining is their supply of oil.

Once the US entered the conflict in WWII, it was agreed that the major threat to world peace was Europe & one that had to be resolved 1st before turning their forces on the Far East & with the current issues with the world today, a repeat performance of that agreement will be a major disaster.

With China enlarging their "Blue Water" forces, the US will be blocked from entering the "South China Sea" therby reducing her ability to fight in the Pacific.

Should WWIII erupt, from current events, it looks like the US will continue to attempt to secure the oil......

.....by the time they secure it (if indeed they can), it will be too late - they'll be isolated from the Far East leaving the European & Middle East routes highly vulnerable....

...Add to this the South American countries refusing to assist the US & that'll leave the USA totally isolated.

For those that think this is just a far out scenario & that the US will not let that happen......

...Are You Sure of That?

When the dust settles, there'll be just the one "Superpower" remaining......

CHINA.
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Message 1288060 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 14:39:05 UTC

I think the middle east is just a side show. Iran is a paper tiger doing what Moscow tells it. Russia is a paper tiger also, So what they have nukes. As soon as you use nukes you lose. Iran knows that also.

If Russia does try to take Europe I think Poland and Germany would put one big hurt on them. Remember Russian equipment didnt fair to well during both gulf wars.

Turkey is the wild card in the middle east. They didnt like Iraq on the border I dont think they like Iran much either.

I do agree China is the threat. There will come a day that she will flex her muscle over Taiwan and those islands up near Japan. What isnt widely known is Japan has been increasing the size of its navy according to Sea Classic magazine.

Dont short change the US Navy. Unless Congress starts gutting the Navy, We have more than enough to handle China.
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Message 1288061 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 14:46:17 UTC - in response to Message 1288060.

Nice reply James. However, you're forgetting history. Trueman gave the orders for the bombs to be dropped on Japan due to the unacceptable losses an invasion of Japan would entail.

As with all wars past, present & based on current military assets, future, it will take boots on the ground to end a war.

The US ground forces are not a viable option to take on China. Also, should they get bogged down in a ground war, will the US population accept that - those pictures & videos we saw daily throughout the 60's & early 70's of not just the war in Vietnam, but those of the US homefront.

Now magnify that a 100 fold.

Will America accept that?
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Message 1288077 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 15:12:22 UTC

First off why do we have to invade China with boots on the ground. We do what did to Japan in WW2 cut off the oil and raw materials and they wither and die.

And dont forget the predators we have, A nice force multiplier.

I sure hope we dont have to duke it out with China, The losses on both sides would be terrible.

And I blame the politicians for selling our debt to China. What the hell were they thinking. That is what will be the tipping point. When China says hey by the way were cashing in your bonds.
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Message 1288083 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 15:23:27 UTC - in response to Message 1288077.

Good points but you're totally underestimating the Chinese...big mistake.

Oh & those predators? Operated from the US by Satellites? What happens to those when those Sat's are blown away?

Will the Navy venture into the South China Sea with Chinese Nuclear subs in the area?

While the US is securing the oil in the Middle East, what do you do if China expands into the Pacific a la Imperial Japan?

Is China "really" attempting a Moonshot just to enter the "belated" Space Race or have they some ulterior motive? If ulterior motive ends up proven, will the US bring the Shuttles out of mothballs?

You're dealing with the "Middle Kingdom" where they see everyone else on the planet as pawns on a chessboard - & that is a scary proposition!
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Message 1288088 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 15:43:06 UTC
Last modified: 26 Sep 2012, 15:44:32 UTC

Good point about the satelites. I had forgot they blew one up. I dont underestamate China. Scares the hell out of me. All the world has beat a path to the cheap labour with high tech gadgets. what they cant build they steal. And they arent just copiers either. They can innovate.

your point about the space program is very valid. Here we are leaving space and China is going into space. And my guess its not for the knowledge its for the military advantage.

As far as us trying to secure oil in the middle east while confronting China. I dont buy it. Europe has a lot more to lose in the short term then the US. You wont sit on the sidelines when you get whacked by an oil embargo either.
Thats why we have the strategic reserve, And why every President does not want to release any of it to offset gas prices.
Also dont forget we have reserves of oil ourselves. Granted not enough to keep our outlandish style of living. But enough to keep us in the fight.
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Message 1288095 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 15:57:53 UTC - in response to Message 1288088.

Again an excellent reply. However as to regards Europe, forget it. By the time all the "committees/quangos" decide to fight, it'll be too late for the simple fact is that as Afganistan is proving, Nato as a whole is proving ineffective!

Do you really think that the Eurocrats will allow another "Eisenhower" to command the European forces? Or for that matter, a hardcore general like "Patton" to press on & finish the job in a short a time as possible?

Personally, I feel that European Forces will never be able to be as cohesive as they were in WWII.
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Message 1288112 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 16:31:19 UTC - in response to Message 1288095.

I like the new(old soviet through Ukraine) Chinese aircraft carrier. Sadly, they've forgotten that they have no planes capable of takeoffs or landings on this boat.

Perhaps I should restate. China now has a nice new flat top boat. Perhaps they can use it to ship containers from one country to another while it builds a plane for it
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Message 1288116 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 16:41:50 UTC - in response to Message 1288112.

I like the new(old soviet through Ukraine) Chinese aircraft carrier. Sadly, they've forgotten that they have no planes capable of takeoffs or landings on this boat.

Perhaps I should restate. China now has a nice new flat top boat. Perhaps they can use it to ship containers from one country to another while it builds a plane for it


Underestimaing China I see.

Tell me, do you know the story of "Billy Mitchell"? Wasn't he castigated & ignored for condeming the Navy for continuing to pour funds into building Battleships when the future was land & sea based air power?

Didn't HMS Repulse & HMS Prince of Wales prove him correct?
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Message 1288117 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 16:48:28 UTC - in response to Message 1288095.

Again an excellent reply. However as to regards Europe, forget it. By the time all the "committees/quangos" decide to fight, it'll be too late for the simple fact is that as Afganistan is proving, Nato as a whole is proving ineffective!

Do you really think that the Eurocrats will allow another "Eisenhower" to command the European forces? Or for that matter, a hardcore general like "Patton" to press on & finish the job in a short a time as possible?

Personally, I feel that European Forces will never be able to be as cohesive as they were in WWII.


Sirius, Is Europe really getting that fragmented?
And why does it have to be an American general to lead?

I think you will find, When the time comes you will act as one for the common good.


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Message 1288120 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 16:52:12 UTC - in response to Message 1288116.

I like the new(old soviet through Ukraine) Chinese aircraft carrier. Sadly, they've forgotten that they have no planes capable of takeoffs or landings on this boat.

Perhaps I should restate. China now has a nice new flat top boat. Perhaps they can use it to ship containers from one country to another while it builds a plane for it


Underestimaing China I see.

Tell me, do you know the story of "Billy Mitchell"? Wasn't he castigated & ignored for condeming the Navy for continuing to pour funds into building Battleships when the future was land & sea based air power?

Didn't HMS Repulse & HMS Prince of Wales prove him correct?


Dont forget Pearl Harbor.
And who is to say that while China is shaking down her ship, that they are not doing some intense training on an aircraft to out fit her.
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Message 1288154 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 17:55:00 UTC - in response to Message 1222101.


Snip

Many in the South disagreed with DeValera & thought, had Hitler won, he would've moved on Ireland which was ideally positioned as an Atlantic Base.


What many of those Irish troops knew/realised which is why they joined the British Armed Forces, as well as trying their best to amend the mistakes of their leaders which even now, many Irish feel was disgusting.......

Hitler's plan for the invasion of Ireland
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Message 1288166 - Posted: 26 Sep 2012, 18:18:03 UTC - in response to Message 1288117.


Sirius, Is Europe really getting that fragmented?
And why does it have to be an American general to lead?

I think you will find, When the time comes you will act as one for the common good.



Good questions James.

Yes Europe really is that fragmented.

I was just using Eisenhower & Patton as reference.

That will all depend on how fast they act. Looking at the state of the current Eurocrisis, just doesn't fill me with confidence in their leadership in time of war.
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Message 1290902 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 20:32:28 UTC

So far, no Chinese reply/comment on this state of affairs: -

North & South Korea on verge, states NK Official

Was China aware of all this, hence the rush to get their "Blue Water" forces up to strength?

Should they do so, & the Korean game kicks off, where will the US stand?
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Message 1290958 - Posted: 3 Oct 2012, 22:49:54 UTC - in response to Message 1290902.

Curious that NK is trying to play the victim -- it has never taken aggressive action ever. Medication will be provided shortly.

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Message 1291003 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 0:45:57 UTC - in response to Message 1290958.

considering the North hasn't got a viable delivery system other than the backs of its people, I don't consider that much of a threat.
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Message 1291140 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 12:18:09 UTC - in response to Message 1290902.

So far, no Chinese reply/comment on this state of affairs: -

North & South Korea on verge, states NK Official

Was China aware of all this, hence the rush to get their "Blue Water" forces up to strength?

Should they do so, & the Korean game kicks off, where will the US stand?


As we have troops up near the DMZ. We will be with South Korea.
The South Korean army is not the same army that fought during the Korean war. I have talked with many VietNam vets and they said the VC and the NV army feared the South Korean troops. My cousin who was a combat medic in Iraq also said the same thing. They dont ask for quarter nor do they give it. North Korea will get its butt handed to them if they try an invasion.
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Message 1291164 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 13:17:50 UTC

Ok, probably a very silly question. At one point in the past, Russia supported NK and the USA supported SK. A major escalation could have meant WWIII. What if anything is the difference now?


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Message 1291187 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 14:18:50 UTC - in response to Message 1291164.

Ok, probably a very silly question. At one point in the past, Russia supported NK and the USA supported SK. A major escalation could have meant WWIII. What if anything is the difference now?



Nukes!
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Message 1291245 - Posted: 4 Oct 2012, 16:21:51 UTC

China Came in on the side of N.Korea also, and kicked the US toops back to the sea. My Father in law was one of them. My dads brother (KIA) was another, but he was down south near Pusan.

I think China is the key. I dont know how well China has this new leader on a leash. He cant be as crazy as his father was, I hope. maybe China can slowly moderate the behavior of N.Korea.
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