I.M.F

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Author	Message
Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 6665 Credit: 1,280,210 RAC: 712	Message 1220852 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 1:03:06 UTC Last modified: 21 Apr 2012, 1:03:42 UTC
	IMF HQ IMF Home Page Some interesting questions...... Switzerland has always been well known for its banking system, so wondering why wasn't the HQ of the IMF based there? The IMF has doubled its lending power to over $430 billion which made me pause for thought...... Is this an American version of the EU Commission, you know, the one who hasn't had their accounts signed off for over 14 years. Just how many employees & what are the top executives salaries as when all said & done, they are getting paid by the taxpayers of all the nations in the IMF. Shame your FOI Act only covers American citizens, as it would be nice to know as at the end of the day, nobody works for nothing! Like the EU, is this another Wolf in sheep's clothing? However, if what they predict is correct.... Euro Collapse Wonder just how long that $430 billion will stay in their coffers & how much of it slips into some back pockets.... ____________
	ID: 1220852 ·

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 2665 Credit: 1,502,236 RAC: 1,277	Message 1220867 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 1:29:04 UTC - in response to Message 1220852. Last modified: 21 Apr 2012, 1:29:24 UTC
	Euro Collapse The eurozone could break up and trigger a global economic slump to rival the Great Depression, the IMF warned last night. In its World Economic Outlook report, the International Monetary Fund said the collapse of the crisis-torn single currency could not be ruled out. The scare to get the the ECM member countries to support a Spanish bail-out. What does the normal man-in-the-street do when he's in debt? Stops loaning more money!! What do these countries do when in the same situation? Carry on loaning even more money!! There's a debt bubble growing here and unless new found growth comes to save the day for them then this bubble is going to burst - big time. The size of growth required to deflate this debt bubble is just not there or likely to be there for many years to come. So one of these debt laden countries is going to go "bang"! and bang big style. .....Good morning, Sirius...... ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
	ID: 1220867 ·

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 6665 Credit: 1,280,210 RAC: 712	Message 1220875 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 1:37:13 UTC - in response to Message 1220867.
	Euro Collapse The eurozone could break up and trigger a global economic slump to rival the Great Depression, the IMF warned last night. In its World Economic Outlook report, the International Monetary Fund said the collapse of the crisis-torn single currency could not be ruled out. The scare to get the the ECM member countries to support a Spanish bail-out. What does the normal man-in-the-street do when he's in debt? Stops loaning more money!! What do these countries do when in the same situation? Carry on loaning even more money!! There's a debt bubble growing here and unless new found growth comes to save the day for them then this bubble is going to burst - big time. The size of growth required to deflate this debt bubble is just not there or likely to be there for many years to come. So one of these debt laden countries is going to go "bang"! and bang big style. .....Good morning, Sirius...... Morning Nick. Yep. & guess who ends up suffering for that... ..we do, more work for less pay...brings to mind my favourite quote....shame they didn't call the new drives Solid State Disk Drive's, then it'll be SSDD..... I'll let you decide what that means... LOL ____________
	ID: 1220875 ·

BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2480 Credit: 7,397,803 RAC: 13,389	Message 1220958 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 3:53:57 UTC
	One thing is, the IMF -- like the EU --- has had a long history of pushing austerity as the be all, end all of government deficits. What both the EU and IMF may be coming to realize is that when a countries GDP has a LARGE government component (as in nearly all countries in the EU), and there is a world wide recession, plus a world wide liquidity crisis, austerity can make things worse in terms of balancing a budget. Drop the budget expenditures to balance with revenues, watch a recession deepen which reduces revenues. Nasty cycle, that. It is one of the things the Republicans in the US have been hammering for on the US budget. They say this will not only balance the budget, but also help the economy. The thing is, they actually are not interested in either, rather they want small government and a recession when there is a Democrat as the President. It isn't economics, it's politics.
	ID: 1220958 ·

Chris S Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 22617 Credit: 4,498,433 RAC: 5,923	Message 1221151 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 9:08:17 UTC
	Ya know Sirius, I haven't heard you say a good word about anyone or anything for a very long time now. You seem to think all Politicians are useless, all bankers and financiers are corrupt, the Olympics are a waste of money, they should scrap the EU, now you're bashing the IMF. Such overall negativity is surprising in someone of your age group, and can't be good for your health :-) Switzerland has always been well known for its banking system, so wondering why wasn't the HQ of the IMF based there? Switzerland & the IMF The IMF may not be based in Switzerland, but because of their banking system which you rightly refer to, they are represented on the Board of Governors, the highest decision-making body, by the head of the Federal Department of Finance, FDF, and the President of the Swiss National Bank, SNB.
	ID: 1221151 ·

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 6665 Credit: 1,280,210 RAC: 712	Message 1221153 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 9:15:44 UTC - in response to Message 1221151.
	Ya know Sirius, I haven't heard you say a good word about anyone or anything for a very long time now. You seem to think all Politicians are useless, all bankers and financiers are corrupt, the Olympics are a waste of money, they should scrap the EU, now you're bashing the IMF. Such overall negativity is surprising in someone of your age group, and can't be good for your health :-) Switzerland has always been well known for its banking system, so wondering why wasn't the HQ of the IMF based there? Switzerland & the IMF The IMF may not be based in Switzerland, but because of their banking system which you rightly refer to, they are represented on the Board of Governors, the highest decision-making body, by the head of the Federal Department of Finance, FDF, and the President of the Swiss National Bank, SNB. Then pop over to Mark's Spitfire thread in the cafe...but be careful, you might suffer a life threatening shock :) ____________
	ID: 1221153 ·

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 2665 Credit: 1,502,236 RAC: 1,277	Message 1221169 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 10:07:26 UTC
	austerity can make things worse in terms of balancing a budget. Drop the budget expenditures to balance with revenues, watch a recession deepen which reduces revenues. Nasty cycle, that. Tell that to Spain and Greece who are both very broke financially. Both spent all their money and more yet are still in a serious recession (mild depression). Ad-hock mild recessions then you can support the economy with extra government expenditure. But anything other than this type of recession then it does not work because you try to float the economy too soon. To this end because your economic growth does not come back to support you - you end up running out of money. Mild recessions are caused by countries economies running ahead of themselves so tend to take a breather hence a mild recession sets in, last about a year. The serious recession (mild depression) that we have today was caused by excessive debt. To get out of this then you need to clear the debt, pay it down, no ones paying it down, there all expanding it. It's highly likely that most countries will try to inflate there way out of this debt.....this possibly will lead to these countries experiencing hyper-inflation at some stage. ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
	ID: 1221169 ·

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 6665 Credit: 1,280,210 RAC: 712	Message 1221183 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 11:04:56 UTC - in response to Message 1221169.
	austerity can make things worse in terms of balancing a budget. Drop the budget expenditures to balance with revenues, watch a recession deepen which reduces revenues. Nasty cycle, that. Tell that to Spain and Greece who are both very broke financially. Both spent all their money and more yet are still in a serious recession (mild depression). Ad-hock mild recessions then you can support the economy with extra government expenditure. But anything other than this type of recession then it does not work because you try to float the economy too soon. To this end because your economic growth does not come back to support you - you end up running out of money. Mild recessions are caused by countries economies running ahead of themselves so tend to take a breather hence a mild recession sets in, last about a year. The serious recession (mild depression) that we have today was caused by excessive debt. To get out of this then you need to clear the debt, pay it down, no ones paying it down, there all expanding it. It's highly likely that most countries will try to inflate there way out of this debt.....this possibly will lead to these countries experiencing hyper-inflation at some stage. ...and too far down that road only leads to war. ____________
	ID: 1221183 ·

Chris S Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 22617 Credit: 4,498,433 RAC: 5,923	Message 1221185 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 11:35:22 UTC
	Depositors should be chary of placing more than £50,000, the maximum insured by the state, on deposit with Santander (which owns what used to be the Abbey National and Bradford & Bingley). Santander is Spain’s best-run bank by some distance. But we are entering terrifying times, and there is no need at all to take unnecessary risks. Peter Oborne Daily Telegraph's chief political commentator.
	ID: 1221185 ·

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 2665 Credit: 1,502,236 RAC: 1,277	Message 1221217 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 13:11:59 UTC - in response to Message 1221185. Last modified: 21 Apr 2012, 13:12:41 UTC
	Depositors should be chary of placing more than £50,000, the maximum insured by the state, on deposit with Santander (which owns what used to be the Abbey National and Bradford & Bingley). Santander is Spain’s best-run bank by some distance. But we are entering terrifying times, and there is no need at all to take unnecessary risks. Peter Oborne Daily Telegraph's chief political commentator. The bank has spent all it's money on buying Spanish government debt (Bonds). Money that the government first loaned then lent-on to the banks. When commercial banks did similarly via packaging debts together and selling them off as worthy investments to other banking institutions it lead to the banking crisis and all cried shame on the banks. Goodness knows how many banks ended up selling off packaged debt like this only to find later that they bought back into it again. The only sustainability/stabalisation in this way of doing business is if there is enough economic growth to cover the debt repayments. During serious recessions then this is not always the case due to low or even negative growth periods. The longer the low/negative growth period lasts so bigger grows your debt. These are the times when you need to cut your expenditures and try to balance the books. Else if the debts incurred do not break your back they will at least hold your future positive growth back by many years. Remember at one time the UK was the poor man of Europe and you know what caused that. This was at a time when the world then had only suffered under an 18 month recession, today this recession has been on-going for almost three years and without an end in sight. ....got another couple of years to go, I reckon. ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
	ID: 1221217 ·

Chris S Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 22617 Credit: 4,498,433 RAC: 5,923	Message 1221222 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 13:21:04 UTC
	To be honest I don't think anyone in the UK need worry too much about Santander. It is a viable UK business, and if Spains banking system goes down the plughole, the UK operation will be likely bought out under government oversight.
	ID: 1221222 ·

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 2665 Credit: 1,502,236 RAC: 1,277	Message 1221229 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 13:41:49 UTC - in response to Message 1221222. Last modified: 21 Apr 2012, 13:42:14 UTC
	To be honest I don't think anyone in the UK need worry too much about Santander. It is a viable UK business, and if Spains banking system goes down the plughole, the UK operation will be likely bought out under government oversight. You can assume it's viable but does one know what it's loan liabilities are and to whom?...They could be heavy investors in Spanish bonds for all we know...well, the bank is Spanish so it's easy to assume that they could be bailing-out the home country. ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
	ID: 1221229 ·

BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2480 Credit: 7,397,803 RAC: 13,389	Message 1221264 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 16:26:01 UTC - in response to Message 1221169.
	Nick, I understand the argument, and agree with it in general terms, but then the issue is timing. As to the southern European countries, a piece of the problem there is corruption -- of the tax system. Lot's of non-compliance there and that has spread from the rich into the middle class. As long as that exists, movement toward a balanced budget by austerity looks seriously like class war and that won't help matters. The immediate budget cuts that should be implemented would those with the least adverse effects on the national economy. The same applies to revenue corrections. Historically, the IMF and the EU have reacted to sovereign debt in a manner intended to protect the loans and not the local economies. The extended recession, particularly in southern Europe in part is an extension of this policy. The unrest that follows is on the IMF and EU. In the US, the right wing seems to have a plan regarding reduction of the debt -- basically deny health care to those who can't afford it. That they they die off more quickly. To the extent this reduces life span, major 'savings' to Social Security would result (plus the major savings in health care costs)... I don't know that this passes the smell test, but it would balance budgets in other countries as well.
	ID: 1221264 ·

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 2665 Credit: 1,502,236 RAC: 1,277	Message 1221276 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 17:39:59 UTC
	I don't know that this passes the smell test, but it would balance budgets in other countries as well. Smell test, Barry, or "stink test" who knows. Yet in this financial whirlwind we're in someone is going to suffer. To my mind the longer we stretch this debt route out then the more people it will eventually effect. In the UK, for instance, state spending now accounts for 53.4 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP). So you can see why the UK chooses to follow the debt route because half our economy relies on this government spending. So since the other half of our economy is shrinking so unable to fully support this government spending so this gap is made up by loaning more money and/or increasing taxation. Yes, so as can be seen, if government's cut back on their spending this will result in public sector job losses....well to my mind someone going to have to suffer. The sooner the suffering starts so the sooner it will all be over. ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
	ID: 1221276 ·

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 6665 Credit: 1,280,210 RAC: 712	Message 1221299 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 18:32:53 UTC - in response to Message 1221276.
	Everyone in the West will eventually suffer because our "leaders" rather than thinking responiblely, went after chasing the "buck" for short term gains & the same applies for all our industries. Why do you think Asia is up & coming? It's because all our jobs have been outsourced offshore & since the lifespan of most, due to improved medical services, is expanding & with no prospect of employment for the young, that is & will be a highly inflamable tinderbox. For those with any sense, this has been seen for several years if not longer & I don't care what others say...we are heading towards, if not another World War, then major conflicts. It is definitely coming & I just hope that I'm dead & buried before it arrives. ____________
	ID: 1221299 ·

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 2665 Credit: 1,502,236 RAC: 1,277	Message 1221329 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 19:36:55 UTC Last modified: 21 Apr 2012, 19:50:54 UTC
	It is definitely coming & I just hope that I'm dead & buried before it arrives ....That can be arranged.....just a joke, Sirius. Loss of export markets I think was down to lack of inwards investment. When financial institutions took over the reins of many of our industries their priority was for shareholder valve, i.e. big dividend's at any cost. This took away money for inwards investment and paid it out to enhance the dividend. That's my suspicion anyway..... ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
	ID: 1221329 ·

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 6665 Credit: 1,280,210 RAC: 712	Message 1221332 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 19:42:24 UTC - in response to Message 1221329.
	It is definitely coming & I just hope that I'm dead & buried before it arrives ....That can be arranged.....just a joke, Sirius. Loss of export markets I think was down to lake of inwards investment. When financial institutions took over the reins of many of our industries their priority was for shareholder valve, i.e. big dividend's at any cost. This took away money for inwards investment and paid it out to enhance the dividend. That's my suspicion anyway..... That's what did happen so not a suspicion. & they're still doing it today..just look at the greedy f*****s known as bankers..... ____________
	ID: 1221332 ·

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 2665 Credit: 1,502,236 RAC: 1,277	Message 1221336 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 19:50:02 UTC
	For those with any sense, this has been seen for several years if not longer & I don't care what others say...we are heading towards, if not another World War, then major conflicts. This would be a worry if the ECM was to break-up. Yet anything is possible especially after the first world war for you'd think no one would have the stomach for another world war but they did. At the moment I can't see anything around worth having a war over. Events take time to build and some see these events leading to a war earlier than others. Just need to keep your eyes and ears open for any early warning signs being thrown-up by trusted commentators. ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
	ID: 1221336 ·

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 6665 Credit: 1,280,210 RAC: 712	Message 1221340 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 19:59:28 UTC - in response to Message 1221336.
	For those with any sense, this has been seen for several years if not longer & I don't care what others say...we are heading towards, if not another World War, then major conflicts. This would be a worry if the ECM was to break-up. Yet anything is possible especially after the first world war for you'd think no one would have the stomach for another world war but they did. At the moment I can't see anything around worth having a war over. Events take time to build and some see these events leading to a war earlier than others. Just need to keep your eyes and ears open for any early warning signs being thrown-up by trusted commentators. spot on! & if only the t**t's concerned had listened to Winnie when he said "this is not the end of the war, but a 20 year truce". The man was spot on with his prediction & had Britain listened to him, we would not have been caught short...army & navy were ill prepared for war & we can thank the RAF for giving the rest of the armed forces & the country time to play catch up. Should something similar do occur.....will the nations involved be ready? ____________
	ID: 1221340 ·

Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 2665 Credit: 1,502,236 RAC: 1,277	Message 1221341 - Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 19:59:58 UTC - in response to Message 1221332.
	That's what did happen so not a suspicion. & they're still doing it today..just look at the greedy f*s known as bankers..... Ah!, got ya'...you mean "firkins" don't you. 1 firkin = 40.9148269 metric bankers stuffed in a barrel. ____________ The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
	ID: 1221341 ·

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