Johenney

If evolutionary theory is "full of holes" can you explain or rationalise in particular the homology between ancestoral retro viral endogenous sequences present in Human Chromosome II and those of the Chimp famiy ?

Well that's easy. The devil put them there to deceive us.

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Apparently the Devil makes work for idle nucleotide sequences :)

Johenney

If evolutionary theory is "full of holes" can you explain or rationalise in particular the homology between ancestoral retro viral endogenous sequences present in Human Chromosome II and those of the Chimp famiy ?

Well, I warned Johnney that those's gods in his head were kidding him along.
Yet don't be supprised if those aliens that you say will visit you, Johnney, turn
up looking rather chimmpy like. Gods like offerings and these ones I think will be
quite partial to a banana or two....ripe ones of course.

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The Kite Fliers

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Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

It intrigues me as to Whether or not Noah took fish two by two onto the arc and if so why ...I'd love to know. Also ..did he include Kangaroos and if so did they hop all the the way from Australia ? Same question for Penguins Polar bears

It intrigues me as to Whether or not Noah took fish two by two onto the arc and if so why ...I'd love to know. Also ..did he include Kangaroos and if so did they hop all the the way from Australia ? Same question for Penguins Polar bears

I suspect that the aquatic lot got left behind, in the sea, as the flood waters
were homogeneous to their normal environment. Still, how did them Kangaroos hop
across the sea from Australia without drowning?

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

PLus Noah must have been overload with taxanomic data and charged with such an immense task as presumabley all extant species must have been safely guided and nurtured to and on to the arc. Consider only the Reptiles 6787 species and extant Birds 9703 species ? What about the thousands of insect species. Think of the planning of the food supply for just the carnivors. Some animals must have gone onto the arc in more than a two by two ratio just to supply meat for the carnivours.

There must have been so many problems ! The Rinos rioting, The badgers digging holes, the weevils eating everything, the sloths doing nothing much etc

It must have taken NOah or his agents ages to catch two moles !

Plus Im guessing here but the Kangaroos must have hoped all the way back to Australia when the flood abaited as the arc dry gulched somewhere in the nmiddle east !

There must have been so many problems ! The Rinos rioting, The badgers digging holes, the weevils eating everything, the sloths doing nothing much etc

It must have taken NOah or his agents ages to catch two moles !

I know they had some serious logistical problems to overcome. I do believe some
of the logistics were farmed out to an outside agency, God only knows who?

Plus Im guessing here but the Kangaroos must have hoped all the way back to Australia when the flood abaited as the arc dry gulched somewhere in the nmiddle east !

Possibly puts it somewhere around Bury St Edmunds, perhaps this is how this place
became so holy?

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Those that choose to believe that all of the stories in the Bible are literally true must be having a hard time coping with the reality of the situation. When I was young I got a good dose of Christianity from two widely diverse schools of thought. During the time I spent in the Childrens Hospital in Greenville, S.C. I was bombarded with the views of the local Baptist ministry who for the most part regarded the Bible as being literally true from cover to cover. I never have been comfortable with that viewpoint. While at home I attended services and Sunday School at the local Presbyterian Church where the minister had, in my opinion, a much more reasonable attitude about Bible stories which boils down to accepting them as the mythology of the Jewish people and to understand them as having an idea or parable to teach and not regard the Bible as a history or science book.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

Johenney

If evolutionary theory is "full of holes" can you explain or rationalise in particular the homology between ancestoral retro viral endogenous sequences present in Human Chromosome II and those of the Chimp famiy ?

DesO'Connor,
Sure Des, of coarse i will. Can you be more specific about which Genetic sequences your not sure about? The question is very vague, maybe you haven't evolved enough to grasp the complexity of your own question.

Anyway Des, your the one who is gullible enough to be sucked into thinking your a monkey. Seems the laugh is on you. Ugh Ugh :) You should also try learning to spell Des, that would be a good sign your have superseded your ape ancestors.

Johnney.

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We are not monkeys, we are great apes the lone surviving species of hominus and are most closely related to Bonobos. We are more closely related to bonoboes and chimpanzes then they are related to gorillas. Also we contain a high percentage of our genes that are common to some ordinary weeds.

Those who wish to ascribe our species to a Deity need not deny evolution just believe that She was the one who started it all.

Johnnie, my son, to borrow a quote: "Get thee to a nunnery"

DesO'Connor,
Sure Des, of coarse i will. Can you be more specific about which Genetic sequences your not sure about? The question is very vague, maybe you haven't evolved enough to grasp the complexity of your own question.

Anyway Des, your the one who is gullible enough to be sucked into thinking your a monkey. Seems the laugh is on you. Ugh Ugh :) You should also try learning to spell Des, that would be a good sign your have superseded your ape ancestors.

Johnney.

ZOMG really Johnney? Here's your same post without spelling errors:

DesO'Connor,
Sure Des, of course I will. Can you be more specific about which genetic sequences you're not sure about? The question is very vague, maybe you haven't evolved enough to grasp the complexity of your own question.

Anyway Des, you're the one who is gullible enough to be sucked into thinking you're a monkey. Seems the laugh is on you. Ugh Ugh :) You should also try learning to spell Des, that would be a good sign you have superseded your ape ancestors.

Johnney.

Try answering the damned question instead of trying to fire off insults. It makes you look like you're unable to formulate an intelligent response and thus must resort to ad hominem attacks as a form of defense.

People who believe in God by definition believe in extraterrestrial life unless either (a) they believe God is something other than a living being or (b) that God exists only here on earth.

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Au Contraire mon Herr.

I think it is the opposite. Finding intelligent life elsewhere would beg the question of why this wasn't laid out in all of the great religious books. This would mean that there was more than one Genesis and Garden of Eden and what if others ate the Apple would Christ have to die an infinite number of times?

I don't think that there will be proof that there is not other intelligent life in the Universe also, if there is we probably won't find it.

Johnnie, my son, to borrow a quote: "Get thee to a nunnery"

Better still, a "Monkery". The joke you've been having, Johnney, is wearing
rather thin now. I'm beginning to think that you really do believe in your own
rhetoric, this is worrisome.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Johnnie, my son, to borrow a quote: "Get thee to a nunnery"

Better still, a "Monkery". The joke you've been having, Johnney, is wearing
rather thin now. I'm beginning to think that you really do believe in your own
rhetoric, this is worrisome.

Nick,
I'm waiting to see if Des O'Connor returns. He asked a vague, but important question and i hope he will return with something more specific about the retroviral sequences in the human genome.

As for you Nick, you haven't presented any scientific arguments.

John.

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Two of the snakes disobeyed Noah's orders to "go forth and multiply". You see, they were adders. But luckily for their species they used logarithms.

Latest views seem to favour Mount Ararat Ark in turkey

Some think that the Biblical flood describes the filling of the Mediterranean sea from the Atlantic. All seems to fit, giving the Holy land time to prepare, but the timescales are a bit out.

Its a good point Chris. If you block the straits of Gibraltar, you could flood the whole Mediterranean region, most of north Africa, a good bit of southern Europe, and a large section of the middle east all in one go. The straits of Gibraltar are only about 10 miles wide. We could block the straits of Gibraltar today if we wanted to, it would be easy with explosives or nuclear weapons. That would flood what would have been the known world back then. Once you achieved your goal, you could then unblock it again with more explosives. Its one possibility anyway.

John.

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Go ahead JOhnney lets talk evolution for a while.

My view is there is substantive evidence for ascentive evolution having resulted in the diversity of life forms we see on earth today.

My view is that there are biological and geological imperatives which strongly support this theory.

Whats your viewpoint on the origin of species ?

Des O'Connor,
Thanks for coming back Des, and i agree, lets try discuss this topic in a serious scientific manner. No name calling, just a discussion about the possibilities of what might have happened in our past. Lets make the discussion productive Des, so we can both learn from each other. Let both keep an open mind to the other persons view point.

My view is there is substantive evidence for ascentive evolution having resulted in the diversity of life forms we see on earth today.

My view is that there are biological and geological imperatives which strongly support this theory.

Des i agree with you completely, trust me, i can take either side of this argument. Yes, its undeniable that life has existed on this planet for hundreds of millions of years. And simple life may have been here for billions of years. And there is oceans of proof of the diversity of that life.

See Des i agree that natural selection is indeed 100% fact in nature, only a fool would deny what natural selection produces in the plant and animal kingdom. But for the moment Des, lets just discuss the Human bit. The only bit i see an error in is the bit about human beings evolving. I have no problem with the rest of it.

Des the bit that does not stand up is that we say that we human beings were primitive in the past. And it has been a slow progression as mankind slowly found new ways to record information and ultimately, the invention of the printing press 500 years ago and distribution of books started to speed recording of our scientific knowledge. So the question is this Des, exactly how primitive were we in the past?

As i say, i'm only concerned with roughly the last 5,000 years or so. Effectively the first of the large stone buildings we see mankind constructing around the world. So exactly how primitive were the Egyptians building the pyramids in Egypt? If you study the pyramids and the culture, you will quickly see that there was nothing primitive about them at all! In fact, the pyramid at Giza in Egypt was the tallest structure on earth until the Eiffel tower was built in Paris in modern times.

Des its the same thing with every civilisation on earth. Its like as if everyone all got clever all at the same time. And to top that off, they all started building monumental stone structures that could not be replicated again until the invention of the modern crane in the 20th century.

Des something happened about 6,000 years ago. The written records of what happened are difficult to trust because they claim "magical" things were happening. But Des your a scientist, and as a scientist, you know there is no such thing as magic. Another way of describing magic is this - Magic is a scientific person doing something scientific and NOT telling the people who are watching. So if the ancient magician does something, lets say injects someone with a vaccine for meningitis, then he would look like a God to the people watching.

So Des, the question is this - Exactly how much science did they have 6,000 years ago in biblical times in Babylonia, modern day Iraq, and in Israel, and in Egypt? The bible say that there was a race of people there "creating" plants and animals. Is this possible? Well yes it is possible. Today, the breakfast cereal on your table most likely is genetically modified in some way or another. So today, can we genetically modify creatures and animals? It turns out that we can, and we do. And people like the Roslyn institute in Scotland and people like Craig Venter have been doing this for the last 10 years.

If we can do this today, then maybe our historians made a mistake recording and interpreting our human history. Maybe historians aren't very good at recognising an ancient written document that did actually discuss this ancient science. Why would an historian miss this? Because he is not a scientist and is never going to be able to read science that is ahead of him, especially when he is expecting to read something primitive.

Des the science we have today, physics, chemistry and biological science, i believe we had this before and it was taken away from us. Or simply not given to us in the first place, or we killed the scientists who had the knowledge so it got lost. But the people who had the scientific knowledge would have seemed like Gods. When really they were just people, like you and me, but with very advanced science just like today.

I don't care what happened in past human history. I don't care if i evolved from a monkey or if God-like scientists created me and didn't give my ancestors any of the science for some reason. But at the very least, i want to know who is right. This is my job, this is my profession. This is what i do in life. I'm a scientists that's trying to find the truth, no matter what that truth is. And i don't care who is right, i just want to know what happened, thats all. I'm not siding with the biblical story, nor am i siding with Richard Dawkins and the atheist view just because they say they are 100% correct. I side with nobody, i'm my own boss. I listen to EVERYBODY's view-point. I don't reject priests just because they are priests. I don't reject the bible just because science journal says its bullshit. I read ALL information because its the only way to be completely objective.

I will never again trust a scientist, "Just because" he says something is true. I will never again trust a priest "Just because" he says its true. I do my own investigations and i will never be peer-reviewed or silenced by anyone. My work will be openly published when the time is right for all the world to see my scientific results. And all people can judge for themselves. And if it turn out that our ancient ancestors were acting like God-like scientists, then thats what i will publish if its the truth.

John.

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I would advise everybody to read "The human phenomenon", by Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, SJ, the discoverer of the Peking man (Sinanthropus Pekinensis), whose rests were unfortunately lost in China in WW2.
Tullio

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