Record high levels of pack ice at the poles this year.

Them Polar Bears wont drown this year!

Oh you have done it again.

WHAT polar bears?

Polar bears only inhabit the Artic regions.
In Antartica they have penguins.

[school report]“He has an overdeveloped unawareness.” [/school report]

And I'm happy to report there is pack ice at both of them. LOL!

Glad to see you are happy to make the report, though the first article you linked says something quite different:

Arctic sea ice recently set a 33-year low.

"LOL" indeed (unless, of course, you happen to be a polar bear).

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

[school report]“He has an overdeveloped unawareness.” [/school report]

Brilliant!!

A true army report.

"There is a village somewhere that is missing it's idiot"

I have more,

“At least his education hasn’t gone to his head.”

Put the Kool-Aid down...

...please back away from the cup slowly.

There is no UFO following that astroid and or comet.

Do any of you here have any other stupid human tricks other then being intellectually dishonest? Please entertain us...

Gary and ID:

You get 10/10 for your childish flippant blind stupidity. If you can't be serious about anything, then please create your own threads rather than pollute this thread with your blind childishness.


Meanwhile, unfortunately it's looking like the present climate conference at Doha is generating similarly useless hot air:

Doha UN climate talks to conclude with few conclusions

... As politicians delay, scientists continue to warn of ever-increasing greenhouse gases.

But this conference - the 18th Conference of the Parties, or COP18 - will not prevent any CO2 being released into the atmosphere - that will be left to future meetings. Indeed if it does not tighten the rules on "hot air" this conference could result in an increase in emissions. ...



All very stupid.

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

As I said..."Pack Ice is at it's thickest since 1996." Them Polar Bears wont be drowning this year...LOL! The sun every 11 years goes through a sunspot cycle and we have one more year to go before the sun will be quite for another 11 years--OR LONGER. The BIGGEST driver of our weather is the sun--BY FAR! CO2 has dropped during a sun spot cycle and went up during a cycle. FYI--man as we are now has only been on this rock for 120,000 years and we have NOT changed the weather, we have not been here long enough, a little common sense goes along way.

I don't need a PHD. I just need to understand human nature. Setting that aside for now...

Out of the 120,000 years we have been on this earth/rock how long have we been pumping Co2 and the likes into the air? Would" industrial revolution" ring a bell? How long has it been since the start of the "industrial revolution" till today? As I clearly said---we haven't been on this earth long enough to effect the change you talk about.

Nature is cyclical and science ISNT looking at nature, it's looking ONLY at man made so called problems. An HONEST reading of ice cores tells us that Co2 and ALL other so called greenhouse gasses have ran up and down during a sunspot cycle. The sun itself IS the main driver of our weather, NOT man. The suns cycles ARE NOT fully understood and to interject man into a cycle that isn't fully understood isn't good science at all.

The sunspot cycle turned off for a time. Maunder Minimum (also known as the prolonged sunspot minimum), and the world cooled off by 1 degree [on average] and that caused summer to be only a month long for many years. The sun also heats up, as it IS right now, and that causes weather to be warmer, as it is NOW.

If it wasnt for greenhouse gasses we wouldn't have an atmosphere suitable for life, let alone suitable for man.

And now I expect you want proof. Ever hear of the ozone layer? We had a hole in it once, it opens and closes in a not so well understood cycles. Becouse of that we changed over our chemical makeup on our refrigerants from r12 to r134a, and stopped making styrofoam. The government got all over McDonalds and the car makers. It made a Native American cry on TV. So we stopped, and the hole was fixed. As it turned out the hole fixed itself. Because when we stopped the use of r12 refrigerants we started to ship our jobs overseas to China. Ya know what type of refrigerants China uses to make styrofoam and cool their stuff? You bet---r12, and they use 100 times more of it then we do. And the hole in the ozone would appear a natural occurrence. What did we get in return for that occurrence? Our JOBS SHIPPED to CHINA.

Anti-Science Climate Deniers On The Retreat In Germany.

Global warming is far too important to be left to a ditto head like you Martin. You absolutely will not treat the issue with any seriousness. You refuse to engage with solutions. All your childish spouting catastrophe makes people point and laugh at you for being henny penny. Talk solutions and people might listen. If you don't have any then stop adding hot air to the planet.

Any rational thinking person can see that these tiny 1-5% cuts won't make any dent in the exponential growth of emissions. So if Mr. Martin Catastrophe we are at - or past - a tipping point and the 3rd world is given a pass on reduction isn't the only solution mandatory decimation of the world population of humans? After all if we do nothing it will happen by global warming anyway.

Screaming there is a leak on a sinking ship doesn't stop the leak. All you do is distract those trying to plug the leak. Tell them where the spare hull plate and welding kit are and then you are being useful. Waving your arms and screaming in a real emergency is likely to get you shot for being in the way. Or is your arm flapping and tongue wagging the proof there isn't an emergency?

If your model says humans need to limit CO2 to pre-industrial levels then get busy and implement it. Of course if you don't believe the conclusions of your own model ...

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Anti-Science Climate Deniers On The Retreat In Germany.

So... Let's see the opening words there:

... The climate change conference, hosted by the European Institute for Climate and Energy (known by its German acronym EIKE) and cosponsored by the Heartland Institute...

Now then, were not the "Heartland Institute" completely disgraced for accepting fossil fuels industry bribes to spread FUD and obfuscation?


Are you sure you are not a discredited disgruntled shill?

All on our only planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

And to the insult of Gary Charpentier:

Screaming that it ain't happening and that we are doomed regardless are both denialest lies.

We already have a range of solutions that will save the planet and save us and save our present lifestyles.

The only thing not to be saved are the brazen profits of the fossil fuels polluters. This is all a deja-vu of the criminality of the tobacco industry... Even some of the same Marketing/lobbying people have been employed!


So, you hide your head in your own cesspit waiting for the world to burn around you?

Or you yourself are too old and decrepit to care one hoot? Selfishly damn the rest of us?

Or enough interest is stirred to push the politicians to forgo the corruption of the fossil fuels industry to do something useful?


Oh, and for your other global solution of nuke us all: Education is far more effective in far more ways than you can ever know...

All on our only planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

The suns cycles ARE NOT fully understood and to interject man into a cycle that isn't fully understood isn't good science at all. From the " industrial revolution" to today has been how long? Common sense tells me all this global warming stuff is a lot of hot air.

You wouldn't be a sword swallower? I like that stupid human trick...

...give it a try.

And from down under one of their views on what could happen.
Six degrees of devastation

We already have a range of solutions that will save the planet and save us and save our present lifestyles.

Unfortunately Martin, we do not. Perhaps in you Pollyanna world they work. I tend to deal in the real world and your solutions don't work in the real world. Your so called solutions completely ignore the realities that exist. They make grandiose assumptions that are not supported by data or history.

If they work so well, then why is China's CO2 output exploding exponentially? You have no answer for that. You did realize it was happening as the country industrializes while its population continues to grow even with mandatory abortion. Rather dim prospects for the rest of us.

How about all this talk that the rich nations will have to redistribute their wealth to the poor nations or the poor nations won't cut polluting. Do you realistically ever see a chance of that happening? Winning the grand prize in the lotto ten times in a row is more likely. World war might get it done.

How much energy is required to keep everyone on this planet in the standard of living they are now? Will they be satisfied with stagnation? Do you know how to generate, store and transport that energy to where it is needed when it is needed, except by burning carbon? You have no answer.

I see I'm getting under your skin. Good. Perhaps you will wake up and realize just how big the engineering problem is. It isn't going to be solved by the UN. The UN hasn't been able to solve one damn thing. Does every nation even pay in all their billed amount? Thought so.

Do you have a solution for NIMBY? You require one to solve the CO2 problem. You will have to site ugly and dangerous energy generation in major population centers, likely on land that has houses or businesses already on it.

I see solar and wind power being bandied about. How do you propose to store a couple weeks energy for the times the clouds block the sun and the wind isn't blowing? You don't have an answer for that.

Tidal power. At least that happens more regular than sunshine or wind. But what does that do to the coastal marine environment? Ready for that damage? Just how long is that power transmission line to central Asia or Africa? Is there enough refined metal handy to build the power lines? Smelting more releases a lot of CO2. You don't have an answer for that.

That leaves fusion power. Show me an operating fusion reactor. Okay, that's out.

Okay, fission power. Chernobyl, Fukushima, Three Mile Island. NIMBY. But it might actually be possible for a few centuries until we run out of fuel. That's right, we only have so much fuel. It is finite.

Martin, get real, there is no answer yet. Unfortunately I seriously doubt there is one other than nuclear winter, but I look at the world from an engineering point of view. War and nuclear winter is also likely as conditions get worse. Nature has ways of balancing. Populations explode and they crash. Humans are animals subject to Darwin's law. We foul the nest and it has consequences.

Actually I did think of another solution, but it requires a bit of work which should be possible. Release into the wild GM crops for human consumption that contain human birth control hormones. Not at a level that results in 100% infertility, but perhaps 75-90%. That should limit the human population and thus the competition for energy. I doubt it can be deployed fast enough but it does prevent the nasty mess of having to decide who lives and who dies. I'm sure it will have side effects on the environment. Perhaps they can be mitigated.

The solution Martin has to work 10 years down the line as well as 10,000 years down the line. I say this because if we have to back away from industrialization we will lose the ability to engineer and continue to manufacture the solution. Yes, Martin, the picture is really that bleak.

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Gary, you would make Thomas Malthus proud.

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Just a short, non-scientific opinion on this subject.

We, as humans, have so little possible impact on this planet that you could not believe it to be significant.

The tidal changes in world climatic conditions cycled like this for eons before we humans were evidenced as present.

They shall continue far after we as a species become extinct or some cataclysmic solar or cosmic event renders this planet uninhabitable by our lifeform.

As George Carlin once put it.......the planet is FINE...it's the people who are..
Well, you fill in the blank.

Forgive the expletives, which was George's way of expressing himself, and LISTEN to his message.
Please. 5,230,616 views of this clip...how many of you actually got his message?

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

+1 to Gary....

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

I see solar and wind power being bandied about. How do you propose to store a couple weeks energy for the times the clouds block the sun and the wind isn't blowing? You don't have an answer for that.

I have an answer for this one.
1) It is ALWAYS windy somewhere, just as it is ALWAYS sunny somewhere. With a large enough infrastructure of turbines and solar panels/concentrators, there is absolutely enough energy for all of us. I recall the discussion very well. The math says that with enough methods of capturing renewable energy we could sustain ourselves indefinitely. Without much storage.

The balance, he says, should be made up primarily of solar, with a dash of geothermal, hydroelectric, and concentrated (stored) solar energy. “[Wind and solar] are very complementary,” said Jacobson. “When winds are calm, it’s a sunny day, and vice versa. You don’t need expensive wind [energy] storage if you combine them optimally.”
To prove it, Jacobson and his research team overlaid their multisource formula for clean energy generation against two years of power demand in a representative California market. “We were able to match the hour-to-hour power demands ... with 98% reliability,” he said.
So how many 100-meter-tall wind turbines would it take to generate 5.75 TW of energy for electrical power, transportation, and other projected energy needs in 2030? About 4 million, said Jacobson, up from “several thousand” currently in operation worldwide generating about 237.5 megawatts of energy, of which North America accounts for one-fifth.

source

[I would like to see that 98% reliability figure be something more like 99.999 however]

And as far as energy storage methods, Gary don't forget that we as a society have been in the middle of a battery revolution for several years now, and the ideas and proven technologies are growing better everyday.

Do you really think your smartphone could have been powered off of a battery that size even just 10 years ago? How bout a car?

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#resist

These figures are not from "some hysterical denialist organisation". They are the WMO's own figures as reported at the Doha conference.
Global warming still stalled since 1998
T.A.

I have an answer for this one.
1) It is ALWAYS windy somewhere, just as it is ALWAYS sunny somewhere. With a large enough infrastructure of turbines and solar panels/concentrators, there is absolutely enough energy for all of us. I recall the discussion very well. The math says that with enough methods of capturing renewable energy we could sustain ourselves indefinitely. Without much storage.

Yes it is "always windy somewhere and always sunny somewhere" the problem is not so much generating the power, but as Gary explained, it's getting it from point A (the generators) to point B (the users).

As solar and wind farms will be much more scattered and lower output than the current conventional power stations the cost of the grid infrastructure will be prohibitive.

Solar panels require about 10 acres per Megawatt. I'd imagine the requirement for a Solar concentrator power station would be in the same ball park. Therefore for the equivalent of an average sized coal fired station of 6GW you will need an area of 10,000 acres or 15.6 square miles of panels or reflectors. Allowing for the fact that most alternative sources only produce 35% of their rated output when averaged over a year (due to cloud cover, no wind etc.). The future of solar as a viable large scale alternative energy source is not looking good.

T.A.