Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III

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Message 1325751 - Posted: 8 Jan 2013, 10:53:20 UTC - in response to Message 1325691.  

I see you continue to deny the math.

... Reality is hard to face.

And so you go flying off the rails again...

Obviously, we cannot sustain continued exponential population growth. Already there are signs that is slowing: World population growth rate 1950–2050

Note also from that Wikipedia article: Population control

... population control to alleviate environmental pressures need not be coercive. It states that "Women who are educated, economically engaged, and in control of their own bodies can enjoy the freedom of bearing children at their own pace, which happens to be a rate that is appropriate for the aggregate ecological endowment of our planet."...


Can you instead divert your doom and gloom energies into helping everyone in the world around you to overcome the fossil-fuels industry corruption?

All on our only planet,
Martin

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Message 1325752 - Posted: 8 Jan 2013, 11:02:18 UTC
Last modified: 8 Jan 2013, 11:03:28 UTC

Two contrasting news snippets from this morning:


And so it begins?

Searing temperatures fan Australia wildfires

... More than 130 fires are currently burning in New South Wales... Four areas in New South Wales have been given a "catastrophic" fire danger rating... first time that average national top temperatures over 39C had been recorded on five consecutive days...

... In New South Wales, temperatures had passed 40C by midday at the coast. Winds of up to 80kph (50mph) have also been forecast. ...

... in Penrith near Sydney, told the BBC the heat was extreme.

"It is currently 45C - which is the hottest I've ever experienced, coming from the UK originally," he said.

"As I was on my way home, I could see smoke in the sky, which was very hazy... I saw a number of people being treated for heat exhaustion and dehydration.



Meanwhile, along with the Canadian "Burn Baby Burn!" and their flagrant CO2 pollution, we have all the worms and fish getting poisoned...

Oil sands' toxins 'accumulate in freshwater ecosystems'

... [polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons] levels were now 2.5-23 times greater than levels from about 1960. ...

... concerned residents on the shores of Lake Athabasca (downstream from one of the region's major oil sands facilities) had called for the federal government to commission an independent study to assess the impact on the area's water bodies.

The call came after local people said a growing number of landed fish where showing signs of deformities.

They voiced concern that there was not an effective system of environmental monitoring was in place. ...





All on our only planet,
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Message 1325810 - Posted: 8 Jan 2013, 15:34:11 UTC
Last modified: 8 Jan 2013, 15:36:20 UTC

Sounds like the planet Earth is doomed to me. This months Astronomey magazine had a litlle news item that says our star is a variable. And is heating up as it ages. So in about 800,000 years Earth will be toast.

Seeing how most folks dont care about space exploration and see it as a waste of money, Why do scientist continue to have dreams of colonizeing another planet or star system?

We are going to die anyway so lets just use up our fossil fules and pollute the hell out of our planet. Better to die by our own making then let mother nature wipe out our pitifull shortsighted stupid race.


edit- I forgot the big sarcasm icon.
[/quote]

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Message 1325859 - Posted: 8 Jan 2013, 21:10:07 UTC
Last modified: 8 Jan 2013, 21:10:29 UTC

Washington Post reports NOAA saying 2012 hottest year.

2012 hottest year on record in contiguous U.S., NOAA says
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Message 1326120 - Posted: 9 Jan 2013, 18:04:29 UTC
Last modified: 9 Jan 2013, 18:07:39 UTC

More hot stuff... Have such temperatures ever been recorded before on this planet in recent millennia?


Cooler weather brings relief to fire-ravaged Australia

Cooler weather has brought some relief to south-east Australia as fire crews continue to battle bushfires across several states.

Temperatures in New South Wales have fallen more than 10C, after one of the highest-risk fire days in its history.

But scorching conditions are predicted to return at the weekend and new fires are spreading despite the drop, authorities say. ...

... Average national top temperatures on Monday of 40.33C set a new record.

The bureau has added new colours to its forecast chart to indicate temperatures above the previous 50C-limit because of the heat wave.

It said extreme temperatures would continue in Australia for the next week. ...





Temperatures have been so high the Australian Bureau of Meteorology has increased its temperature scale to 54 degrees, and added a new colour code


On such a continental scale, that may well generate one hell of a 'sea breeze'!

What can survive that?...

All on our only planet,
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Message 1326257 - Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 2:33:31 UTC

Loved The Documentary Cool It, describing The Efforts of Bjorn Lomborg and Like Minded Scientists in their Quest To Actually Act to alleviate and mitigate Humanity's Climate Follies,

instead of Make Grand Speeches at The DO NOTHING World Conferences On Climate.

PROFessor S. Say: Geo Engineering Broheims, Geo Engineering.

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1326277 - Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 5:17:20 UTC

What happens next? well einstien@home hit a petaflop January 1st 1/1200 of what

it would take under current estimates predict weather 1 week out.

we will need better tools to effect planetary weather without bad consequences

but this is doable in just a few years.

as to carbon sequestration the Sahara dessert was once grass land and prairy

ecosystems are the most active on the planet sending roots down as much as 30 yards.

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Message 1326364 - Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 14:54:46 UTC - in response to Message 1325751.  

Note also from that Wikipedia article: Population control

... population control to alleviate environmental pressures need not be coercive. It states that "Women who are educated, economically engaged, and in control of their own bodies can enjoy the freedom of bearing children at their own pace, which happens to be a rate that is appropriate for the aggregate ecological endowment of our planet."...

Does that work in the Muslim world, where women are property, forbidden to own property and their schools blown up? Oh, what fraction of the world is Muslim?

You are very slowly lifting you eyeballs above the sand, and that is a good thing.

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Message 1326366 - Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 15:09:51 UTC - in response to Message 1326364.  

Way off topic Gary, and the same could be said of ANY religious government.
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Message 1326390 - Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 16:58:55 UTC - in response to Message 1326364.  

Note also from that Wikipedia article: Population control

... population control to alleviate environmental pressures need not be coercive. It states that "Women who are educated, economically engaged, and in control of their own bodies can enjoy the freedom of bearing children at their own pace, which happens to be a rate that is appropriate for the aggregate ecological endowment of our planet."...

Does that work in the Muslim world, where women are property, forbidden to own property and their schools blown up? Oh, what fraction of the world is Muslim?

You are very slowly lifting you eyeballs above the sand, and that is a good thing.

There are places, even in Asia which back up the idea of allowing women to be educated pays off.

Although not strictly Muslim with only 25% of its population being Muslim, look at Kerala, a state in SW India.

At a population of 33,388,000 in 2011, the state has the lowest population growth rate; 3.44% and a density of 819 persons per km2. Kerala has the highest Human Development Index (HDI) in the country with 0.920 according to the Human Development Report 2011. It also has the highest literacy rate; 93.91%, the highest life expectancy; 74 years and the highest sex ratio; 923 men per 1000 women among the Indian states. A survey in 2005 by Transparency International ranked it as the least corrupt state in the country.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala
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Message 1326687 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 15:13:30 UTC

Yet another nasty aside to burning fossil fuels. Not only are we polluting our atmosphere and making the oceans ever more acidic to kill off ever greater areas of life, we are also poisoning all life with steadily increasing levels of poisoning from mercury pollution from mining and from burning fossil fuels:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20972620

... Although coal does not often contain high concentrations of mercury, the authors say the "combination of the large volume burned and the fact that a significant portion of the mercury present is emitted into the atmosphere results in large overall emissions from the sector".

But, they add: "The mercury content of coal varies widely, making emission estimates highly uncertain."

In 2009, nations - through the Unep Governing Council - agreed to launch negotiations to establish a legally binding treaty that would cut mercury emissions from human activities.

Next week in Geneva, government officials from more than 100 nations will begin final negotiations to establish the treaty that could lead to a reduction in global mercury demand by 2015.



Is this not all long ago urgent to act? We already have the increasing consequences...

All on our only planet,
Martin

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Message 1326902 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 1:05:21 UTC
Last modified: 12 Jan 2013, 1:06:03 UTC

From the Guardian on a report by The "National Climate Assessment and Development Advisory Committee" (NCADAC)
Climate change set to make America hotter, drier and more disaster-prone

Draft report from NCA makes clear link between climate change and extreme weather as groups urge Obama to take action


"Climate change is already affecting the American people," the draft report said. "Certain types of weather events have become more frequent and/or intense including heat waves, heavy downpours and in some regions floods and drought. Sea level is rising, oceans are becoming more acidic, and glaciers and Arctic sea ice are melting."


The 1000 page draft report is available at the NCADAC site.
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Message 1327177 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 20:56:43 UTC - in response to Message 1326366.  

Way off topic Gary, and the same could be said of ANY religious government.

If you are going to get an agreement to cut CO2 -- population as we now realize that is a root cause -- I think that presupposes you have to deal with all governments, even religious ones. Perhaps religious ones more so than others due to religious sex views. If you know you can't get an agreement then you choices are, get hot or impose via force. Martin doesn't like it when I point the latter one appears to be the only one where success can be assured.


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Message 1327209 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 23:21:46 UTC - in response to Message 1327177.  

Population is an issue Gary, as is the habits the population develops. But perhaps we should re-think cutting womens health services including birth control? After all we all benefit.
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Message 1327261 - Posted: 13 Jan 2013, 2:02:50 UTC - in response to Message 1327209.  

Population is an issue Gary, as is the habits the population develops. But perhaps we should re-think cutting womens health services including birth control? After all we all benefit.

Who is the we?

In any case the issue is simple: Is reproduction an inalienable right?

Can government control it? Either way.

If not, how can we get the population reduced to a level that we can continue on this planet industrialized? Especially given all the religions and their weird commands from mythical gods about go forth and multiply to get me bigger flocks to fleece.

Just pointing out that the technical cuts we can do today are good, but absolutely not a solution. If humans have gone from 0.5B to 7.0B in a little over 400 years, it is a major undertaking to make sure it stays under control for the next 100,000 years. The technical cuts won't even last us 50 years at our current growth rate.

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Message 1327902 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 12:09:46 UTC

The pressure to act sooner rather than later continues:


2012 was in top 10 warmest on record

... Both teams said that temperatures would have been higher if it hadn't been for the La Nina weather pattern that brought cooling to some regions.

They were equally certain carbon dioxide had been the principal driver of the rise over the past 50 years. ...

... "The perceptive person should notice that the frequency of unusually warm extremes is increasing. It is the extremes that have the most impact on people and other life on the planet," he said.

According to both groups of researchers most areas of the world had higher than average temperatures in 2012 while the Arctic experienced a record breaking ice melt.



NASA Finds Long-Term Climate Warming Trend

... "One more year of numbers isn't in itself significant," GISS climatologist Gavin Schmidt said. "What matters is this decade is warmer than the last decade, and that decade was warmer than the decade before. The planet is warming. The reason it's warming is because we are pumping increasing amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere." ...


Effects of climate change will be felt more deeply in decades ahead, draft report says

A federal advisory panel released a draft report Friday on how Americans can adapt to a changing climate, a more than 1,000 page tome that also sums up what has become increasingly apparent: The country is hotter than it used to be, rainfall is becoming both more intense and more erratic, and rising seas and storm surges threaten U.S. coasts. ...



Meanwhile, yet another angle to 'buy time' for a good long term fix:

Black carbon ranks as second-biggest human cause of global warming

Soot ranks as the second-largest human contributor to climate change, according to a new analysis released Tuesday, exerting twice as much of an impact as previously  thought.

The four-year, 232-page study of black carbon, published in the Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, shows that short-lived pollution known as soot, such as emissions from diesel engines and wood-fired stoves, has about two-thirds the climate impact of carbon dioxide. ...



Climate change: Soot's role underestimated, says study

... Scientists say that particles from diesel engines and wood burning could be having twice as much warming effect as assessed in past estimates.

They say it ranks second only to carbon dioxide as the most important climate-warming agent. ...

... The researchers say black carbon emissions in Europe and North America have been declining due to restrictions on emissions from diesel engines. But they have been growing steadily in the developing world. However as these type of particles don't last very long in the atmosphere, cutting their number would have an immediate impact on temperatures.
diesel engine Cutting emissions from diesel engines could have a big effect

"Reducing emissions from diesel engines and domestic wood and coal fires is a no-brainer as there are tandem health and climate benefits,"...




All a question of politics and fossil fuels corruption to turn our planet around?

All on our only planet,
Martin


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Message 1327909 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 12:55:42 UTC - in response to Message 1327902.  

The pressure to act sooner rather than later continues:


2012 was in top 10 warmest on record

... Both teams said that temperatures would have been higher if it hadn't been for the La Nina weather pattern that brought cooling to some regions.

They were equally certain carbon dioxide had been the principal driver of the rise over the past 50 years. ...

... "The perceptive person should notice that the frequency of unusually warm extremes is increasing. It is the extremes that have the most impact on people and other life on the planet," he said.

According to both groups of researchers most areas of the world had higher than average temperatures in 2012 while the Arctic experienced a record breaking ice melt.



NASA Finds Long-Term Climate Warming Trend

... "One more year of numbers isn't in itself significant," GISS climatologist Gavin Schmidt said. "What matters is this decade is warmer than the last decade, and that decade was warmer than the decade before. The planet is warming. The reason it's warming is because we are pumping increasing amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere." ...


Effects of climate change will be felt more deeply in decades ahead, draft report says

A federal advisory panel released a draft report Friday on how Americans can adapt to a changing climate, a more than 1,000 page tome that also sums up what has become increasingly apparent: The country is hotter than it used to be, rainfall is becoming both more intense and more erratic, and rising seas and storm surges threaten U.S. coasts. ...



Meanwhile, yet another angle to 'buy time' for a good long term fix:

Black carbon ranks as second-biggest human cause of global warming

Soot ranks as the second-largest human contributor to climate change, according to a new analysis released Tuesday, exerting twice as much of an impact as previously  thought.

The four-year, 232-page study of black carbon, published in the Journal of Geophysical Research: Atmospheres, shows that short-lived pollution known as soot, such as emissions from diesel engines and wood-fired stoves, has about two-thirds the climate impact of carbon dioxide. ...



Climate change: Soot's role underestimated, says study

... Scientists say that particles from diesel engines and wood burning could be having twice as much warming effect as assessed in past estimates.

They say it ranks second only to carbon dioxide as the most important climate-warming agent. ...

... The researchers say black carbon emissions in Europe and North America have been declining due to restrictions on emissions from diesel engines. But they have been growing steadily in the developing world. However as these type of particles don't last very long in the atmosphere, cutting their number would have an immediate impact on temperatures.
diesel engine Cutting emissions from diesel engines could have a big effect

"Reducing emissions from diesel engines and domestic wood and coal fires is a no-brainer as there are tandem health and climate benefits,"...




All a question of politics and fossil fuels corruption to turn our planet around?

All on our only planet,
Martin


All well and good for us developed countrys to cut back on carbon emmissions. But do you really think that emerging 3rd world countrys will give up there chance at a slice of economic pie because we say they need to do it? Try telling the poor in those countrys that they cant burn wood or coal in the winter for heat. Try telling China to start cutting back see where that will get you. As Gary stated in an above post, Your going to have to force countrys to start cutting back. I can see how that will go over. Only thing that will happen is a population decrease from a war.


[/quote]

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Message 1327949 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 15:45:53 UTC

The Irony!!!

Got a little chuckle out of this. Maybe they should've held their protest in Arizona and teleconfrenced via Skype.
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Message 1327951 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 15:53:26 UTC - in response to Message 1327949.  

The Irony!!!

Got a little chuckle out of this. Maybe they should've held their protest in Arizona and teleconfrenced via Skype.

How so?... The irony is?

Are the wildfires and recent 54 deg C (129 deg Fahrenheit) of Australia ironic?...


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Message 1327979 - Posted: 16 Jan 2013, 17:04:13 UTC - in response to Message 1327951.  
Last modified: 16 Jan 2013, 17:05:07 UTC


Are the wildfires and recent 54 deg C (129 deg Fahrenheit) of Australia ironic?...


No, what ironic is 200 people standing around in 34°F weather protesting global warming. Your reference to temps in Austrialia is for an area roughly 100 sq miles (not very large for Australia). Not to mention the fact that the effected area is so sparsely populated...



...due to the fact that the area is ummmm, DESERT!!



Death Valley consistantly see temps reaching 120°F+ during the summer...It's desert, it's suppose to get hot. When Sydney hits 129°F, let me know.
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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III


 
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