Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III

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Message 1312637 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 17:52:18 UTC

There is no global warming that is due to man. The only reason it has gotten as far as it has is because of the indoctrination that has gone on in the k to 12 schools in the USA.

You cannot prove it. It's junk science. And because of it most of the Hoi polloi have a very, very low opinion of scientist. We simply don't believe you. They are "Chicken Little" to most of us. If it wasn't for the government by force taking money from us they wouldn't be funded at all.

I'm not kidding you when I told you our jobs where shipped to China. I wasn't lying to how how it was done either. Most Favored Trading Nation status went to China under Clinton helped by his wife and the was the coup de gras of the middle class. Tons of tax payer dollars went colleges for training for jobs that never showed up. Not every one can be a computer tek, nor can everyone be a nurse.

There is a huge number of people in my country that has given up looking for work. There is a huge number of people who are underemployed. What do you think will happen when they STOP getting government assistance? What do you think will happen when the lights go out? Or food stops getting to market?

It is the government meddling in personal lives and free enterprise that has gotten us this far. It is the government that will take the blame, rightly so too. To say that the government should force birth control on it's citizens means that the farmer who grows the crops has to agree with the government. The farmer is a Christian, this will never happen.

Any agreement to move forward will only come from the Hoi polloi. Whats best for the Hoi polloi? In a nutshell--virtue. I do best when my neighbor does well. And my neighbor does well when he/she has a stable family unit that moves forward in every category that you can think of. Anything less means that I am not doing well. Think about that one word---virtue.

Apply virtue to everything, banking, government, relations in the one on one and between governments. We have done just about everything BUT virtue and nothing has worked. Ethics has not and will NEVER work. We all share on this rock basic morals that can indeed be used because they once was used with great success in the past. Human nature tells us that it doesn't always work but in the end when the dust settles it does work, only when virtue is applied.

Ethics has replaced morals. Government has replaced personal responsibility. Lust has replaced love. And because of this you all deserve just exactly what your going to get, chaos. The natural order of things will soon demand that we follow like it or not.

The only question that remains is if it will turn out like the revolution in 1776 in my Country or the one later that happened in France. If I was you Id think real hard on the word---virtue.
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Message 1312657 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 19:02:11 UTC

“We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. ”

Abe Lincoln
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Message 1312677 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 19:38:08 UTC - in response to Message 1312637.  
Last modified: 8 Dec 2012, 19:41:01 UTC

... You cannot prove it. It's junk science. And because of it most of the Hoi polloi have a very, very low opinion of scientist. We simply don't believe you. They are "Chicken Little" to most of us. If it wasn't for the government by force taking money from us they wouldn't be funded at all. ...

We can, and we have. Conclusively. Rather than just a smoking gun, the numbers add up to something more akin to exploding a blunderbus right in yer face!

And yet:

We simply don't believe you.



Is that merely due to suspicion, or more that the news is something that you would much rather ignore existed?

We are polluting our planet on an industrial scale, all around us. Nothing else on earth is doing that on such a huge scale.


Unfortunately, we are now starting to see some of the (expensive) consequences and yet the fossil fuels industry and politics still remain blithely as corrupt and procrastinating as ever...

Yet we do have a way out, even at this last moment...


All on our only planet,
Martin
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Message 1312689 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 20:03:37 UTC

Order is the natural way things are. Chaos can rear it's head all it wants. Order will take it's place each and every time. There is NOTHING man can do to reestablish order, the reason why is time and the fact that order cannot be forced by man, it's a natural thing that nature does all by itself. In YOUR arrogance the only thing you have and will do is ensure chaos will stick around longer.
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Message 1312728 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 21:52:05 UTC - in response to Message 1312585.  

And as far as energy storage methods, Gary don't forget that we as a society have been in the middle of a battery revolution for several years now, and the ideas and proven technologies are growing better everyday.

Do you really think your smartphone could have been powered off of a battery that size even just 10 years ago? How bout a car?

The point A to B issue was addressed while I was away, except for transmission losses, so let me address the storage issue.

First the exotic materials needed for these high capacity batteries are not exactly uniformly available on the planet. Some - very few- governments control a large fraction of them. If they want to play games ...

Second the power storage requirements are perhaps somewhat larger than you envision. There the twin issues of the size and danger of such storage. Do you really want every person on the planet to have to tend their own battery farm? I didn't think so. So a municipal farm might store 1TJ of energy. Our high tech batteries seem to have issues if they aren't made perfect with fires and explosions. 1TJ is roughly 1/60 of the power released by Hiroshima. Do you want that sitting in the center of the city? Bit of a hazard. Now as to size, there isn't a Moore's law for batteries.

Capacity, you mention cars. [There is the safety issue, after an accident do you want a stick of dynamite going off? That is starting to catch the attention of first responders and wrecking yards.] A decade ago the EV1 got 80 miles to a charge. Today the Volt gets 35 miles to a charge. Not sure why but it isn't a lot of progress in practical application. Total capacity also seems to be an issue. Gasoline cars have fuel capacities up to 600 miles per "charge." Battery cars need an order of magnitude improvement to match. Yes, we are getting better on mini-micro batteries, but real storage no.

An alternative storage method is using gravity to store the energy. We know how to do this. But it isn't available to do everywhere as you need favorable topography and a water source, then you build a couple dams. So shipping the electricity becomes the issue again.

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Message 1312732 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 21:58:11 UTC - in response to Message 1312637.  

It's junk science.


Do you believe the physics of the greenhouse gas effect is junk science?

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1312733 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 21:59:43 UTC - in response to Message 1312689.  

Order is the natural way things are.


Is the motion of water molecules in a waterfall orderly? If not, is a waterfall unnatural?

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1312745 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 22:39:54 UTC - in response to Message 1312689.  

Order is the natural way things are. Chaos can rear it's head all it wants. Order will take it's place each and every time. There is NOTHING man can do to reestablish order, the reason why is time and the fact that order cannot be forced by man, it's a natural thing that nature does all by itself. In YOUR arrogance the only thing you have and will do is ensure chaos will stick around longer.

Chaos and order are just the two sides of the same coin.

When you have chaos, eventually a pattern will emerge and you think you have order, then there is an almost impercepable change in one variable, out of hundreds or thousands of variables, and you are plunged into chaos again.

Thats why we cannot predict earthquakes and volcano erruptions, or the weather accurately. Or why populations of animals vary so much.

And getting back on subject, when the climate changes, as it does all the time, do we know which parts of the world will get hotter or colder, or wetter or dryer.
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Message 1312759 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 23:01:20 UTC - in response to Message 1312728.  

I think we have a very long way to go before alternative power becomes really viable.

Batteries are really horrible things, either filled with strong acid or alkalides, and made of metals we would rather not use. And they don't have a long life.

Charging and discharging batteries is at best only 70% efficient in both directions. Use them roughly by fast charging and/or discharging quickly causes overheating and decrease of life. They also do not like to be cold either. How well does your car start with a three year old battery on a winters morning in Michigan?

Voltaic cells also need chemicals that are either dangerous or in short supply or both. They have only just got past the point were they generate more power over their lifetime than it took to produce them, and then only when used in reasonably sunny places.

Wind power is usually generated miles from where it is needed. Quite often when they produce most of their power we don't need it, like at night.
In the UK we have had news items where the controllers have had to tell the wind power farms in Scotland to switch off because they are supplying too much power, and then had to compensate them with £millions.

When we do need their power because of bad weather etc. they get turned off because the wind is too strong.
They are also not as efficient as they would have you believe, because although they can produce the power quoted in isolation where frequency is not too important. But as soon as they are connected to the grid keeping the frequency absolutely correct and in phase is the most important thing, by a long way.
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Message 1312766 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 23:31:37 UTC

Windfall

The Movie(Documentary)

After watching, I feel sorry for anyone near a Wind Turbine.

Bad Bad Bad.

Alternative Energy. Worse than Fossil Fuels.

DEMON...Sweating

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1312780 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 23:53:44 UTC - in response to Message 1312772.  
Last modified: 8 Dec 2012, 23:57:05 UTC

Wind power is usually generated miles from where it is needed. Quite often when they produce most of their power we don't need it, like at night.
In the UK we have had news items where the controllers have had to tell the wind power farms in Scotland to switch off because they are supplying too much power, and then had to compensate them with £millions.

When we do need their power because of bad weather etc. they get turned off because the wind is too strong.
They are also not as efficient as they would have you believe, because although they can produce the power quoted in isolation where frequency is not too important. But as soon as they are connected to the grid keeping the frequency absolutely correct and in phase is the most important thing, by a long way.

WK, can you point me in the direction of news reports and any other info you may have, regarding the above. I ask because I don't think that what you have stated is correct.

Unfortunately, quite so for a very small number of occasions due to the National Grid infrastructure (supposedly?) becoming overloaded.

However... I suspect that the real problem was bureaucratic in that it was cheaper to turn off the Wind generators than renege on the supply contracts conditions imposed by the fossil fuels generators...

Hence, I suspect that was more of a case of the Wind power working better than expected and grabbing too large a proportion of the generation pie...


Which comes back to politics and the Market structure and who pays for pollution and the consequences of pollution...

All on our only planet,
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Message 1312786 - Posted: 8 Dec 2012, 23:59:18 UTC

And just like the coin, heads will come up more then tails. It is the natural order of things. Clouds and tornado's always give way to blue skies. Earthquakes are a natural happening of plate tectonics. Order always comes up.

You can deny it all you want but the only thing that you do is you will remain in your ignorance.

What we are seeing in nature now is the natural order of how things are. We can argue all you want on cause but as I have said, we have only been putting out Co2 since the industrial revolution. The natural order of nature is slow and over 100,000 of thousands of years. There has been short events but the cause is pointed at nature, not man. An impact of space junk, can be called a short event.

The event we are having now is something that happened long before we came into being, nature is cyclical. And a combination of a 11 year sunspot cycle has made it a little worse. During this summer in north america we had a heat wave. Now we are into winter and the south pole faces more directly into the sun then we do in north america. There is less ice pack in the south then up here in my neck of the woods. This is a natural event.

Al Gore has lied to you. You can deny it all you want but the only thing that you do is you will remain in your ignorance.
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Message 1312789 - Posted: 9 Dec 2012, 0:00:57 UTC - in response to Message 1312772.  

A quick look failed to find the news report but there are some details in Wiki - Wind Power in the UK, Variability and issues
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Message 1312798 - Posted: 9 Dec 2012, 0:06:28 UTC - in response to Message 1312786.  
Last modified: 9 Dec 2012, 0:10:38 UTC

And just like the coin, heads will come up more then tails. It is the natural order of things. Clouds and tornado's always give way to blue skies. Earthquakes are a natural happening of plate tectonics. Order always comes up.

You can deny it all you want but the only thing that you do is you will remain in your ignorance.

What we are seeing in nature now is the natural order of how things are. We can argue all you want on cause but as I have said, we have only been putting out Co2 since the industrial revolution. The natural order of nature is slow and over 100,000 of thousands of years. There has been short events but the cause is pointed at nature, not man. An impact of space junk, can be called a short event.

The event we are having now is something that happened long before we came into being, nature is cyclical. And a combination of a 11 year sunspot cycle has made it a little worse. During this summer in north america we had a heat wave. Now we are into winter and the south pole faces more directly into the sun then we do in north america. There is less ice pack in the south then up here in my neck of the woods. This is a natural event.

Al Gore has lied to you. You can deny it all you want but the only thing that you do is you will remain in your ignorance.

Your first sentence says it all. No real need to read further.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli_process

[school report] I.D. has delusions of adequacy. [/school report]
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Message 1312800 - Posted: 9 Dec 2012, 0:09:30 UTC

Heads would be order.

No need to read the link...
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Message 1312804 - Posted: 9 Dec 2012, 0:13:38 UTC - in response to Message 1311572.  

Reuters also posted the same story. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/12/05/us-sperm-french-idUKBRE8B40HR20121205

I don't think any of the studies have yet seen any definitive reasons for the drop. I would have thought chemicals would be the most likey reason rather than temperature.

And there was this observation in the Aljazerra report.

Finnish men, he said, "probably have the highest sperm counts of any men on the planet", while neighbouring Denmark has some of the lowest.


Phthalates used to plasticise polymers, like PVC, are possibly to blame as they can leach in to the environment. Certainly they have been blames for feminising fish, and other water life.
It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues



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Message 1312811 - Posted: 9 Dec 2012, 0:34:54 UTC - in response to Message 1312800.  

Heads would be order.

No need to read the link...

There you go again, failing to increase your knowledge, because you think, wrongly, you know it all, or rely on questionable very biased sites.

[school report] He sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them.[/school report]
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Message 1312819 - Posted: 9 Dec 2012, 0:53:02 UTC - in response to Message 1312811.  

Heads would be order.

No need to read the link...

There you go again, failing to increase your knowledge, because you think, wrongly, you know it all, or rely on questionable very biased sites.

[school report] He sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them.[/school report]


I oppose your biased view on nature.

And your intellectual cowardice.....
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Message 1312839 - Posted: 9 Dec 2012, 1:36:31 UTC - in response to Message 1312819.  

Heads would be order.

No need to read the link...

There you go again, failing to increase your knowledge, because you think, wrongly, you know it all, or rely on questionable very biased sites.

[school report] He sets low personal standards and then consistently fails to achieve them.[/school report]


I oppose your biased view on nature.

And your intellectual cowardice.....

Think about it carefully.
Over a long run if the coin is balanced and is flipped fairly then it is going to fall on,

a) Heads most of the time
b) Tails most of the time
c) equally both sides
d) Don't know.
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Message 1312850 - Posted: 9 Dec 2012, 1:54:01 UTC

If?

The coin is never balanced.

Order always prevails. Ergo---heads.

Your premise MUST be rooted in the FACTS of nature herself. It is not. Ergo faulty logic. As your science is faulty, we can clearly see the intellectual cowardice you have in full display.
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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects, Environment, etc part III


 
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